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2017/09/13 05:22:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Yeah I think thats often overlooked. HQ's are necessary so are valid in discussions. However, it should probably be noted if these are additional HQ's being taken to support X unit or if they are the generic ones required for the slots.
In any case, the named crypteks all are good, all have their uses. I think orikan and szerath are the best for troop lists, each bringing different things. If supporting warriors/immortals, szerath hands down.
Orikan has a place with expensive CC units, like lychguard.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If we get the GWM/ some other option close range teleports that doesn't need the janky combos we now do to get off (say a relic that allows a HQ to GWM up a squad) would it make Lych/FO bombs appealing?
Also, if we manage to get an invuln save relic, would a CCB/wraith star become much more appealing? I feel the CCB is currently too fragile to be really viable, but if it was a 2+/4++, with Toholk's D3 to living metal AND quantam shielding, it would be much better as a mobile treat.
If only our fast mobile units could actually benefit from his Command Wave.
God damn it how frustrating and un-synergistic is our army.
We have a fast HQ that has a powerful buff that.... doesn't work with the fast powerful units that would benefit greatly with it.
Imagine praets/wraiths with MWBD. Hell even scarabs would be beasts....
Maybe we need a new keyword, so our HQ's just dont buff the worst units in our codex. It makes fluffy sense that an overlord can control the canoptek stuff, after all they are just robots. He could download a more powerful operating system to them or something.
We have loads of different HQ's that basically do the same thing but with slightly different flavours, but are hamstrung by incredibly awkward transport and very low mobility (I know we are a slow "durable" army, but we are also the most technologically advanced race, if I was slow, but that crazy smart I would make super faste hihg sped transport to get me to where I needa go).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/13 06:06:21
12,000
2017/09/13 06:44:38
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
In this case I basically am starting over with my necrons, and since my list was originally based around three blocks of warriors in fifth edition, it seemed like a good place to start.
Szeras eh? I'll look at proxieing him in my first game and then acquiring him if it all works. Any further advice will be appreciated
2017/09/13 08:07:49
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Godeskian wrote: In this case I basically am starting over with my necrons, and since my list was originally based around three blocks of warriors in fifth edition, it seemed like a good place to start.
Szeras eh? I'll look at proxieing him in my first game and then acquiring him if it all works. Any further advice will be appreciated
Remember though, Szeras doesn't have a dynasty, so he can only help units without a dynasty, while Orikan the Diviner does have a dynasty and he gives 5+ invul for both shooting and melee for units within 6", which is twice the distance compared to normal crypteks.
Also hes a beast in melee IF the stars are right haha
They are both the same points cost though.
I have recently used Orikan alot and his 5+ invul for both range and melee is very valuable imo, since warriors have 4+ save and is easly negated with alot of shooting.
20man warriors blocks + orikan is a great way to bait enemy shooting , recently did a match against a IG player with a kinda cheesey list, and I did draw him. My two 20man warrior blobs + orikan did take all enemy firepower for 3 turns haha
2017/09/13 08:55:10
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I played my first 8th game yesterday and had an absolutely epic game against Tyranids.
It ended at the bottom of turn 7, with me rolling exactly 3dmg as minimum needed on the last shot of the game (a doomsday ark shell) against his very last model (a W3/3++ Zoanthrope), killing it, tabling him, otherwise I would have lost 6 to 8 on points.
Swarmlord w/3 guards
Genestealers: 2x20 and 2x18, 76 total
2x broodlords
1x tunneling monster delivering 1 unit of GS 4x zoanthrope
In short: His swarmlord catapulted 20 GS into my deployment each turn (due to giving additional move and advance), and I suffered 4-5 smites each turn.
He went first, so I achieved absolutely 0 board control. Vanguard deployment.
My MWBD tesla immortals were absolutely brutal against his 5+ save GS units, as long as I could keep them out of combat, one full unit of immortals easily incapacitating 20 GS.
Anrakyr was great with +1A to lychguard and to warriors when they received the heat when the scahff was gone. Orikan giving 5++ to CC was useful against the GS hits that scored -4AP.
DDAs without Stalker varied between absolutely awesome and totally useless. The first turn one model wounding 3 times inflicted 12W against the swarmlord, and the other model did nothing. Folllowing turns they did little or nothing until it was killed turn 4 or 5, having by then catapulted all the GS units it needed. They were great in that they could Fly out of combat and still shoot (albeit reduced) when I was overrun by GS.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Except for the spyder, all my units synergized very nicely.
He didn't have any shooting so DDAs were never really hurt to enable his healing
His points would have been better spent elsewhere.
Lychguard with warscythes were great to dispel his GS when they had FNP, needing to roll 5+ twice for each wound due to 2dmg, thus effectvely cancelling out the advantage of his FNP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/13 08:58:59
2017/09/13 10:34:28
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Godeskian wrote: In this case I basically am starting over with my necrons, and since my list was originally based around three blocks of warriors in fifth edition, it seemed like a good place to start.
Szeras eh? I'll look at proxieing him in my first game and then acquiring him if it all works. Any further advice will be appreciated
Remember though, Szeras doesn't have a dynasty, so he can only help units without a dynasty, while Orikan the Diviner does have a dynasty and he gives 5+ invul for both shooting and melee for units within 6", which is twice the distance compared to normal crypteks.
Also hes a beast in melee IF the stars are right haha
They are both the same points cost though.
I have recently used Orikan alot and his 5+ invul for both range and melee is very valuable imo, since warriors have 4+ save and is easly negated with alot of shooting.
20man warriors blocks + orikan is a great way to bait enemy shooting , recently did a match against a IG player with a kinda cheesey list, and I did draw him. My two 20man warrior blobs + orikan did take all enemy firepower for 3 turns haha
Szerath can help anyone, as his buffs are not dynasty dependent. He gives the +1 to RP to all necron units within 3", and his other ability affects warriors and immortals only, non dynasty dependant. So he is very useful for warriors and immortals as his buff is far and ahead better than a 5++.
Remember a 5++ only comes into effect against ap-2+ weapons. What in their army is shooting high volume ap-2/ap-3 at warriors. I have never found the 5++ to be used, as my opponents usually point those weapons at the bigger, scarier stuff that the extra AP is more effective on. If you are facing a whole armies worth of firepower from a shooty army that has massed ap-2/ap-3 firepower than yes it is preferable to have, but then again the only time someone should be shooting those weapons at warriors is when there isnt much else for those weapons to realistically fire at. This means you are in dire straights and youve gone wrong somewhere else.
The 5++ in melee is much more beneficial, hence why orikan is better paired to CC sluggers. CC is where your likely to see alot more ap-2/3/4 and D3-6 damage, so it helps protecting against these threats. It also keeps the much more expensive flayed ones or lychguard/praets alive for longer.
Refering to the quote above, if you want a 5++ and rp buff take a normal cryptek and use the points elsewhere instead of taking orikan to buff warriors. Its a waste of points. You pay a premium for a random thing (that again only benefits CC realistically, his super sayain mode) and a 5++ in CC that you dont benefit from, so put him where he is meant to go and give the shooty ones a cheap cryptek.
torblind wrote:I played my first 8th game yesterday and had an absolutely epic game against Tyranids.
It ended at the bottom of turn 7, with me rolling exactly 3dmg as minimum needed on the last shot of the game (a doomsday ark shell) against his very last model (a W3/3++ Zoanthrope), killing it, tabling him, otherwise I would have lost 6 to 8 on points.
Swarmlord w/3 guards
Genestealers: 2x20 and 2x18, 76 total
2x broodlords
1x tunneling monster delivering 1 unit of GS 4x zoanthrope
In short: His swarmlord catapulted 20 GS into my deployment each turn (due to giving additional move and advance), and I suffered 4-5 smites each turn.
He went first, so I achieved absolutely 0 board control. Vanguard deployment.
My MWBD tesla immortals were absolutely brutal against his 5+ save GS units, as long as I could keep them out of combat, one full unit of immortals easily incapacitating 20 GS.
Anrakyr was great with +1A to lychguard and to warriors when they received the heat when the scahff was gone. Orikan giving 5++ to CC was useful against the GS hits that scored -4AP.
DDAs without Stalker varied between absolutely awesome and totally useless. The first turn one model wounding 3 times inflicted 12W against the swarmlord, and the other model did nothing. Folllowing turns they did little or nothing until it was killed turn 4 or 5, having by then catapulted all the GS units it needed. They were great in that they could Fly out of combat and still shoot (albeit reduced) when I was overrun by GS.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Except for the spyder, all my units synergized very nicely.
He didn't have any shooting so DDAs were never really hurt to enable his healing
His points would have been better spent elsewhere.
Lychguard with warscythes were great to dispel his GS when they had FNP, needing to roll 5+ twice for each wound due to 2dmg, thus effectvely cancelling out the advantage of his FNP.
Glad to hear Tor! good list to take against them, and his list is nasty! happy to hear it was a bloodbath. Do you feel TA's would be better served in the list? since building mine and using it much more the D6 shots is much more noticable, you frequently get 4 shots, and only get pissy when you get 1-2, not with the DDA where you WANT the 3 shots but usually only get 1-2.
How did your warriors compare vs your immortals?
Do you feel FO would have been useful in a list like this?
12,000
2017/09/13 12:24:36
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Glad to hear Tor! good list to take against them, and his list is nasty! happy to hear it was a bloodbath. Do you feel TA's would be better served in the list? since building mine and using it much more the D6 shots is much more noticable, you frequently get 4 shots, and only get pissy when you get 1-2, not with the DDA where you WANT the 3 shots but usually only get 1-2.
How did your warriors compare vs your immortals?
Do you feel FO would have been useful in a list like this?
We were both limping along those last few turns, Anrakyr and Orikan long gone. I did have both immortal squads at around 70%-80% strength as RP kept dripping back models, the barge and both DDarks though.
I'm spoiling this reply down, failed miserably at keeping it short and concise
On warriors and immortals:
Spoiler:
The immortals and warriors worked nicely together in a way, warriors moved up, rapid fired and charged and were sacrificed as 2nd rank chaff when the scarabs were gone, allowing the immortals one more round of elbow space. Near 40 GF shots is always a potent threat against gene stealers. Anrakyr giving them +1A in CC was also great (conga-lined back). Their increased body count meant they took smites good too.
My first problem was going second this time, I didn't get to move up and fan out, so my immortals were caught in CC with the front line scarabs as the first GS came darting in. Also I kept the scarab bases too far apart, allowing them to be encircled so I couldn't move out of CC and light up that first unit of GS, forcing me to send in LG to clear them up, which was unfortunate.
On Flayed Ones:
Spoiler:
FOs would have been nice to be able to drop on an Objective or to threaten another flank, if I had drawn a secure and hold across the board, it could have scored me 2VP which would have been decisive in this match. Problem is, for anything more than 5 models FO I don't know where to cut the points though. The Spyder, sure, but then, where?
If he had flung 30 gaunts in my face (nobody knew each others lists), I would certainly have missed having 20 FO's around for horde control, but as it were, 10 lychguard with T5/3+, held up much better against 20 GS than 20 FO with T4/4+ would have (dice-hammer says 5-6 LG models lost vs 18 FO models lost, all dead after moral). And with the insane speed of the GS, I was very unlikely to get off a charge first, so I was forced to sit and take it. Also the dmg 2 warscythe did help cancel out the FNP he gave his GS, and still performing well enough to clean out the GS numbers that remained. Also the LG were a threat to his monsters. I eventually moved up 4 LG to charge his injured swarmlord, though rolled miserably and left him with 2 wounds, they then died to smite. FO couldn't have threatened him in the same way.
Now tactically and physically 20 FO could have taken the spot of the warriors in my lineup, (not considering battle forging for now, and still cutting costs elsewhere). As it were, I'm not sure how many GS models the warriors actually shot dead, perhaps only 6-7 over all, and another 2-3 in CC. When their right flank was overrun there were 10 remaining GS models coming in.
If I had had the FO stand there holding the flank in their place, I could have charged them in, as this match went, though likely he would have spotted the danger and taken steps to charge them first (with the swarmlord ability). But had I come in, that would certainly have eradicated that GS unit before themselves dying next turn to smite and charges. In general, FO as troops would be awesome for army flexibility. There is not much "elite" to them fluffwise anyway.
This match could have played out differently though, the warriors could have had more turns shooting, tipping the scale in their favor, if he had focused his strengths elsewhere, if nothing else they could have given me a couple of models dead to overwatch that the FO could not have given me, before dying.
Also tactically the warriors will always be in position to take smites, meaning cheap is important.
I don't think he'll allow me the luxury of having tesla immortals alive until the end next time, perhaps the 3xElite detachment would be better, eg. FOs, Lychguard and a perhaps Stalker could be something to consider. And scarabs - more scarabs.
Though we'll probably go down to 1500 pts next time, played two full nights this time, 3-4 hours each, to complete this beast of a match.
On TA vs DDA:
Spoiler:
He didnt have any long range shooting, and no monsters moved up against my arks, so the invul save would not come into play.
Long range the TA looks better. S8 does everything the S10 did this match, there was not much T5 around. The swarmlord had 5++ invul, so -3 and -5 make no difference. D6 hits would be nice.
20 S4 AP-1 shots of the DDA would be better than D6 autohits to clear out critters that got too close. Not sure if 2 tesla cannons make up for that. Perhaps they do. Its not too different when I think about it.
The shape of the DDA means it can see more targets, I think. I don't own any TA unfortunately.
The TA certainly has more versatile shooting though. The flayer arrays of the DDA weren't useless against bigger monsters, they did chip of a wound here and there when they got closer, but the TA probably would be better with tesla/gc cannon plus the main weapon. Though the tesla immortals were the main GS cleaners, the DDAs were a much appreceiated backup (that often was drawn upon)
Being cheaper, more wounds (one of them took 10W damage), not needing invul and having 20 S4 -1 shots to clear invaders, albeit stuck in one place, I probably would have chosen the DDA again for this match. I havent played with the TA at all, so would need to learn experience it before I could give a better answer. Game mechanic and match flow comes into play too. Movability and speed have real value this edition, so its not a straight up call. If I had gone first, I could have moved up, also with the TAs without sacrificing too much shooting power.
2017/09/13 12:51:12
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Godeskian wrote: In this case I basically am starting over with my necrons, and since my list was originally based around three blocks of warriors in fifth edition, it seemed like a good place to start.
Szeras eh? I'll look at proxieing him in my first game and then acquiring him if it all works. Any further advice will be appreciated
Remember though, Szeras doesn't have a dynasty, so he can only help units without a dynasty, while Orikan the Diviner does have a dynasty and he gives 5+ invul for both shooting and melee for units within 6", which is twice the distance compared to normal crypteks.
Also hes a beast in melee IF the stars are right haha
They are both the same points cost though.
I have recently used Orikan alot and his 5+ invul for both range and melee is very valuable imo, since warriors have 4+ save and is easly negated with alot of shooting.
20man warriors blocks + orikan is a great way to bait enemy shooting , recently did a match against a IG player with a kinda cheesey list, and I did draw him. My two 20man warrior blobs + orikan did take all enemy firepower for 3 turns haha
Szerath can help anyone, as his buffs are not dynasty dependent. He gives the +1 to RP to all necron units within 3", and his other ability affects warriors and immortals only, non dynasty dependant. So he is very useful for warriors and immortals as his buff is far and ahead better than a 5++.
Remember a 5++ only comes into effect against ap-2+ weapons. What in their army is shooting high volume ap-2/ap-3 at warriors. I have never found the 5++ to be used, as my opponents usually point those weapons at the bigger, scarier stuff that the extra AP is more effective on.
To be fair, my 1k army is 40 warriors, 8 immortals, 5 deathmarks and the characters. Whatever high AP firepower my enemy has will almost inevitably hit my warriors or immortals, and I know at least one Eldar player that brings a metric crapton of high ap damage and one Primaris player who fields nothing but plasma.
Refering to the quote above, if you want a 5++ and rp buff take a normal cryptek and use the points elsewhere instead of taking orikan to buff warriors. Its a waste of points. You pay a premium for a random thing (that again only benefits CC realistically, his super sayain mode) and a 5++ in CC that you dont benefit from, so put him where he is meant to go and give the shooty ones a cheap cryptek.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown on which HQ suit where. I haven't really played my necrons in 8th yet but the one game I did have ended in turn one when the aforementioned Eldar player nuked two thirds of my army in one round of shooting. Don't think I rolled a single armour save for all the high ap shooting. So I kind of went and played a different army for a bit
Automatically Appended Next Post: You know, it just occurred to me, Necrons lost their 7th edition WBB roll so that Death Guard could receive it
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/13 19:03:26
2017/09/13 20:38:37
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Szerath can help anyone, as his buffs are not dynasty dependent. He gives the +1 to RP to all necron units within 3", and his other ability affects warriors and immortals only, non dynasty dependant. So he is very useful for warriors and immortals as his buff is far and ahead better than a 5++.
Remember a 5++ only comes into effect against ap-2+ weapons. What in their army is shooting high volume ap-2/ap-3 at warriors. I have never found the 5++ to be used, as my opponents usually point those weapons at the bigger, scarier stuff that the extra AP is more effective on. If you are facing a whole armies worth of firepower from a shooty army that has massed ap-2/ap-3 firepower than yes it is preferable to have, but then again the only time someone should be shooting those weapons at warriors is when there isnt much else for those weapons to realistically fire at. This means you are in dire straights and youve gone wrong somewhere else.
The 5++ in melee is much more beneficial, hence why orikan is better paired to CC sluggers. CC is where your likely to see alot more ap-2/3/4 and D3-6 damage, so it helps protecting against these threats. It also keeps the much more expensive flayed ones or lychguard/praets alive for longer.
Refering to the quote above, if you want a 5++ and rp buff take a normal cryptek and use the points elsewhere instead of taking orikan to buff warriors. Its a waste of points. You pay a premium for a random thing (that again only benefits CC realistically, his super sayain mode) and a 5++ in CC that you dont benefit from, so put him where he is meant to go and give the shooty ones a cheap cryptek.
Well considering my opponents, we play highly competative and they most certainly wont leave a single warrior left on the field, so yes, basilisk, knights etc, will fire at that unit, I would too, its ignorant to leave a couple left so he can reanimate them. Imo the 5++ is more valuable, but sure it all comes down to w/e you prefer.
In my experience, the 5++ melee edition is usefull, as they usually get in melee aswell, so that 5++ and his stars are right are actually usefull contrary to the above comment. And a sidenote, I'd rather have me fail the 5++ save than the opponent succeding with a rediculous amount to wound rolls (granted +1T from Szeras).
And comparing Orikan against Szeras, I guess it comes down to cookies and crumbles? You have to be really close to Szeras agumentation, and getting that +1 str is kinda.. yea. And sure, you can reroll it and roll again next turn.
Atleast Orikans 5++ is 6" and is Sautekh infantry, so destroyers benefit from it aswell plus more coverage.
A player who knows your army rule, will want to make sure you dont get that much use of it, preferably zero use.
2017/09/14 01:38:02
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Well considering my opponents, we play highly competative and they most certainly wont leave a single warrior left on the field, so yes, basilisk, knights etc, will fire at that unit, I would too, its ignorant to leave a couple left so he can reanimate them. Imo the 5++ is more valuable, but sure it all comes down to w/e you prefer.
In my experience, the 5++ melee edition is usefull, as they usually get in melee aswell, so that 5++ and his stars are right are actually usefull contrary to the above comment. And a sidenote, I'd rather have me fail the 5++ save than the opponent succeding with a rediculous amount to wound rolls (granted +1T from Szeras).
And comparing Orikan against Szeras, I guess it comes down to cookies and crumbles? You have to be really close to Szeras agumentation, and getting that +1 str is kinda.. yea. And sure, you can reroll it and roll again next turn.
Atleast Orikans 5++ is 6" and is Sautekh infantry, so destroyers benefit from it aswell plus more coverage.
A player who knows your army rule, will want to make sure you dont get that much use of it, preferably zero use.
Yeah we are seeing that the most successful lists are not using RP as any part of their strategy and forgoing large troops with Crypteks for things like mass wraiths.
2017/09/14 02:20:44
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I run an overlord, cryptek, warriors, immortals, scarabs, deathmarks, destroyers, and a monolith and lack anti tank in my army. I can win games but that's by ignoring land raider crusaders which eat up my troops. I rely on my monolith for anti tank but it's subpar in my opinion. What's good anti tank for necrons? Heavy destroyers or what? Thanks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/14 02:21:17
2017/09/14 03:37:09
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I think szeras' upgrades are a bit worse than a 5++, his main draw for me is his lance weapon allowing me to more or less staple a heavy gauss cannon to my hq choice for 39 points.
I like him with immortals that are mostly going to try and get stuck in cover and shoot all game, and with a 2+ save they're even less in need of the 5++. Warriors on the other hand are much more likely to need the 5++ and the meatier beat stick that orikan provides because i take them in blobs too big to grab easy cover and they often break cover to get in rapid fire / assault range anyway.
On a somewhat related note to mandatory hqs, it's kind of odd that the specialist detachments for heavies or fast attacks all only require 1 hq to 6 specialist units, while if we want to take 4+ troops or benefit from the extra cp taking a bunch of troops is meant to provide us we have to take 2 hqs. There's already a separate hq focused detachment too, but the only troop focused one has to have more hqs than the rest even though troops are by and large weaker than other slots in armies.
2017/09/14 03:58:42
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
BillyN831 wrote: I run an overlord, cryptek, warriors, immortals, scarabs, deathmarks, destroyers, and a monolith and lack anti tank in my army. I can win games but that's by ignoring land raider crusaders which eat up my troops. I rely on my monolith for anti tank but it's subpar in my opinion. What's good anti tank for necrons? Heavy destroyers or what? Thanks.
Heavy Destroyers, Triarch Stalker w/ Heat Ray or Twin Heavy Gauss, Doomsday Ark, Tesseract Ark, Tomb Sentinel, Lychguard w/ Warscythes, Dook Scythe, Sentry Pylon and Gauss Pylon.
Frontline is having Jessica on as a guest to run her Necron List she got 51's in Nova on friday against new Death Guard.
With all the smights I don't have any faith in wraith heavy list.
Pyrothem wrote: Frontline is having Jessica on as a guest to run her Necron List she got 51's in Nova on friday against new Death Guard.
With all the smights I don't have any faith in wraith heavy list.
That is one I'll try to tune in for.
I encourage everyone else on this board to do so as well, and try to ask some questions.
Maybe then we can find out what exactly it is that they think makes Crons so "great" this edition, despite their abysmal performances in the competitive scene.
2017/09/14 05:40:53
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Szerath can help anyone, as his buffs are not dynasty dependent. He gives the +1 to RP to all necron units within 3", and his other ability affects warriors and immortals only, non dynasty dependant. So he is very useful for warriors and immortals as his buff is far and ahead better than a 5++.
Remember a 5++ only comes into effect against ap-2+ weapons. What in their army is shooting high volume ap-2/ap-3 at warriors. I have never found the 5++ to be used, as my opponents usually point those weapons at the bigger, scarier stuff that the extra AP is more effective on. If you are facing a whole armies worth of firepower from a shooty army that has massed ap-2/ap-3 firepower than yes it is preferable to have, but then again the only time someone should be shooting those weapons at warriors is when there isnt much else for those weapons to realistically fire at. This means you are in dire straights and youve gone wrong somewhere else.
The 5++ in melee is much more beneficial, hence why orikan is better paired to CC sluggers. CC is where your likely to see alot more ap-2/3/4 and D3-6 damage, so it helps protecting against these threats. It also keeps the much more expensive flayed ones or lychguard/praets alive for longer.
Refering to the quote above, if you want a 5++ and rp buff take a normal cryptek and use the points elsewhere instead of taking orikan to buff warriors. Its a waste of points. You pay a premium for a random thing (that again only benefits CC realistically, his super sayain mode) and a 5++ in CC that you dont benefit from, so put him where he is meant to go and give the shooty ones a cheap cryptek.
Well considering my opponents, we play highly competative and they most certainly wont leave a single warrior left on the field, so yes, basilisk, knights etc, will fire at that unit, I would too, its ignorant to leave a couple left so he can reanimate them. Imo the 5++ is more valuable, but sure it all comes down to w/e you prefer.
In my experience, the 5++ melee edition is usefull, as they usually get in melee aswell, so that 5++ and his stars are right are actually usefull contrary to the above comment. And a sidenote, I'd rather have me fail the 5++ save than the opponent succeding with a rediculous amount to wound rolls (granted +1T from Szeras).
And comparing Orikan against Szeras, I guess it comes down to cookies and crumbles? You have to be really close to Szeras agumentation, and getting that +1 str is kinda.. yea. And sure, you can reroll it and roll again next turn.
Atleast Orikans 5++ is 6" and is Sautekh infantry, so destroyers benefit from it aswell plus more coverage.
A player who knows your army rule, will want to make sure you dont get that much use of it, preferably zero use.
I never said orikan and his buffs weren't useful, infact they are very good, just its a waste of points giving it to warriors when a cryptek does the exact same job for a lot cheaper. Not that bringing warriors is competitive anyway, but if you are, you bring a cryptek as he gives similar buffs as orikan, yet you aren't underutilising your expensive, melee oriented cryptek on a unit that wants to kite and shoot the majority of the time. Orikan should be with CC oriented troops.
I dont run warriors anymore as our army is expensive and they are a hilarious waste of points, considering the other tools we have available. I was just pointing out the differences between szerath and orikan, and why you would take either over a std cryptek.
Szerath - you want to buff warriors/immortals and you know your not against much high ap Orikan - you want your expensive dedicated melee oriented units to stay alive longer.
Otherwise bring a base cryptek.
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2017/09/14 06:26:50
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Pyrothem wrote: Frontline is having Jessica on as a guest to run her Necron List she got 51's in Nova on friday against new Death Guard.
With all the smights I don't have any faith in wraith heavy list.
That is one I'll try to tune in for.
I encourage everyone else on this board to do so as well, and try to ask some questions.
Maybe then we can find out what exactly it is that they think makes Crons so "great" this edition, despite their abysmal performances in the competitive scene.
This will indeed be a fun game to watch. As Skoffs said, the amount of mortal wounds Death Guard can produce will be the bane of Wraiths. Unless Jessica can keep the distance while playing objectives it will be a really tough game for her.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just looked at the Death Guard list. If Jessica can kill Mortarion (he has fly... lol) with the Pylon as soon as possible she have a good chance to win.
After that she should go after the Daemon princes (they also have fly... lol). They will want to be in CC as soon as possible. Bait them with units and fall back so that the pylon can shoot.
If the Daemon princes are not the closest targets, then the Plague marines are good targets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/14 07:14:52
2017/09/14 10:40:16
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Got to say I've yet to use wraiths in my games, one of the other Cron players in my club norm uses two units but I've always managed to take them down readily enough. The other player is just starting up so don't think he's got any.
I do pref immortals over warriors
May start to include more monoliths to give them their fair share of play time.
2017/09/14 10:50:56
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I agree it would be nice to hear what FLG is seeing with necrons that the rest of the necron community and tournament players fail to see. Well. They could just come here and say it for that matter.
2017/09/14 11:07:39
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I've used the Deceiver in a few games.
It's very good in 2000 point games, but I struggle fitting it into 1500 points that we usually play.
You take him mainly for the Grand illusion and the good thing is that it happens after the roll who starts, so you can be very reactive.
The Deceiver makes your deployment very flexible and I usually use the Grand Illusion in the following ways depending on what I'm facing:
1. Deploy Immortals on objectives in cover. 10 Immortals with 2+ save are a pain to remove. Buildings are the best places preventing anything but infantry and flyer from charging them. Sometimes units of 5 are also ok.
2. Deploy Scarabs to take board control preventing deep striking.
3. Deploy Immortals so that they can shoot on a unit.
4. Redeploy units in your deployment zone for a more advantageous position. Perhaps preventing some units to shoot at you units or giving you better firing lanes.
Besides the Grand illusion it also usually has Antimatter meteor and is pretty good in combat.
It mostly becomes a distraction Carnifex running with a unit of Scarabs (Wraiths might also work).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/14 11:46:27
2017/09/14 14:58:26
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Does the 'times arrow' power have any real use, or is it just bad in comparison to AM's 83.33% chance d3 mortal wounds (making it useful against high save/invul enemies) or Seismic assaults slot machine 16.6% chance per model of mortal wounds on hordes? Granted both of these require you to position well since it's only the closest unit...
Do you at least get to choose which model is slain? If so I guess that could be ok verses low wound units with unique equipment spread out through it, or verses leadership models with 5 or less wounds since this power isn't limited to the nearest.
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2017/09/14 15:02:25
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
As above, I use him in my tournament list. I run 26 scarabs, and tonight I got a 3 in the roll, meaning his DS termies were could not DS anywhere near my Pylon or vehicles. Ate up basically 50% of the board. Also deployed him behind them, so you get a nice little star running about, 9 scarabs are actually a pain to displace, and he is pretty good for a single character.
I lost the game(club closed before we could get another round in) but I would have won convincingly next round had it been tournament length.
After fighting an army that doesn't have force weapons everywhere I must say Scarabs are much much more durable than they appear on paper. They have a huge wound pool to chew through...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Times arrow is for character sniping in armies that that matters to. As it's not a shooting attack it can target characters, and isn't restricted to the closest enemy. So for AM it's really good, killing the commissar keeping the conscripts in line. It's like a 60-70% chance with a CP reroll
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, my TA put in work tonight, the D6 shots is insanely more noticeable with its damage output. It's fleshbane flamer is also amazing, and the tesla cannons are icing on the cake. Far and away better than the DDA. Especially with Toholk d3 living metal
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/14 15:06:00
12,000
2017/09/14 15:27:20
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Question on Tesseract arks: Gravitational Flux: "when resolving a charge against a model with this ability, roll and additional d6 and discard the highest dice before determining the final result."
Does the wording of "Before determining the final result." Mean that I can see what they roll with 2 dice and then if that fails I can wait on using this ability until after they've declared a potential CP reroll of one of those dice? After which I can be all 'Yeah roll another dice and drop the highest...' in essence possibly milking them out of one of their CP's?
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
If only so I could begin the pardonné waghh.
2017/09/14 15:52:45
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Ehhh, it says 'when resolving a charge'. I feel the determining the final result means when all the dice have been rolled. Its 100% meant to be roll 3d6 and discard the highest, but I'm not sure thats RAW 100%, but definetly RAI
12,000
2017/09/14 15:53:41
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Times arrow is for character sniping in armies that that matters to. As it's not a shooting attack it can target characters, and isn't restricted to the closest enemy. So for AM it's really good, killing the commissar keeping the conscripts in line. It's like a 60-70% chance with a CP reroll
--NOTE: I am not sure on how to Spoiler the images so if there is an issue Skoffs I will happily remove them id they are taking up space and/or an issue.--
Klowny,I wish you were part of the Necron group on Facebook. I told a bunch of other people that Times Arrow can target Characters but I was told it was cheating because even though it isn't a shooting attack they told me to follow the rules of the shooting phase and that "C'tan powers" count as shooting attacks because they are done in the shooting phase.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/14 16:10:44
theres a necron page on FB? If you read the full character rule, it says characters cannot be targeted in the shooting phase ..... by weapons. The C'tan power isn't a weapon, and is not shot. Its 100% designed to be a character sniping power.
12,000
2017/09/14 16:19:41
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Yeah I'll invite you to it if I knew your "actual" name.
I stated that in the comments and they were having none of it. And they are Necrons players them self's (or, they just joined to see if they can counter what we have and just gave me grief so I wouldn't use the power the way it is supposed to be used).
Automatically Appended Next Post: I posted the C'tan power and the Characters rules from the book and they still went against my word. Bunch of a**holes tbh.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/14 16:21:09
Planning an Infantry smasher build for a game vs a guardsman player i've lost 2/2 against now that we're out of weekly tourny and can play over 1k (Both games close but usually lost cause of objectives of the mission etc allowing him to barely eek out a win).
For a build resolving around plowing into the center of his massive infantry column and wrapping as many squads as possible with 2x 20 man flayed ones, should I use Sautekh or Maynarkh Dynasty?
Sautekh would allow me to play Stormlord for aoe lightning strike burst and reroll 1's on hits. So this might ensure I more consistently wipe those squads.
Where as Maynarkh would allow me to play Kutlakh and the idea of charging after advancing makes me feel that i'll be able to chase down and wrap additional squads every turn especially if I give those squads MWBD which adds 1" to advance and charge..
Granted either way i go i'll probably have to take at least one if not both C'tans and arm them with times arrow to try and snipe out his commissars as fast as possible since I always find those orders to be the bane of trying to fight his infantry... Granted Seismic assault might not be bad either since the quicker I can wipe the squad the quicker I can get at the comm's...
Though I'll have to make sure I have something to deal with his penitent engines and that angel he'll probably run if we're running more points...
Looking for 2k suggestions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/14 16:30:11
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
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