Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**Klowny**

So the highest placing necrons in the majority of lists have had a substantial amount of wraiths in them, one recently had 30, and placed 7th overall (was a smaller tournament).

In a straight up stat check vs their closest counterpart (scarabs) they are more expensive, but much more durable and have higher quality attacks but scarabs are much cheaper, have a huge wound advantage, attack advantage and are better against T8.

A wraith spam list bypasses the biggest weakness of wraiths, and thats smite spam, which is fairly common in the meta ATM. Even putting out 30 mortal wounds only kills 10 wraiths a turn, and those wraiths will easily kill alot in return.

But 30MW only kills 10 scarab bases, which is basically only a single unit, vs almost 2 full units of wraiths, which is significantly much more expensive.

But then again against non smite spam wraiths will do quite well against most opponents, falling to multi damage weapons pretty quickly when saves are not made.

Its an interesting idea.

What are peoples thoughts?

**torblind**

Wraiths would be weaker against volume of dice and smite, I guess you could adjust your scarab to wraith ratio according to your local meta.

How are they different against T8? They both wound on 5, right?

**Klowny**

torblind wrote:
Wraiths would be weaker against volume of dice and smite, I guess you could adjust your scarab to wraith ratio according to your local meta.

How are they different against T8? They both wound on 5, right?

Derp

you are right. I dont know what I was thinking.

But maybe wraiths are better in a TAC sense? are considerably more expensive though.

**torblind**

I guess, to the extent that it's even worth it going down a TAC route with necrons these days.

Also one could discuss the minimum viable number of wraiths. Perhaps anything short of 8-9 isn't going to make a difference.

Scarabs is easier, being cheaper and less of an offensive asset you could always make us of 3 to hold an objective or block enemy DS. Wraiths on the other hand need to justify their points by also performing in offensive operations

**Cmdr_Sune**

I've only used Wraiths once in 8th. That was a unit of 6. They died turn 2, but absorbed a lot of firepower that would have reduced several units to ashes.

So my take is that if you want a unit that pressures the opponents to deal with it, then you take a large unit of Wraiths.

The problem I can see with them is their damage output. They can't really deal with anything other than small or medium units of average infantry.

However from a pure objective grabbing perspective and tying up vehicles they are probably great. Perhaps a couple of units of Wraiths and a unit of Scarabs is a good medium ground.

I just feel that the Wraiths are yet again one of those Necron units that needs a small boost. Perhaps +1 attack, reworked whip coils and change beamers to assault.

**skoffs**

Wraiths will most likely not be getting a +1 to attack, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Whip Coils getting reworked (probably something like enemies they're engaged with can't fall back or something. Even better would be charging units don't get to attack first, but that'd be doubtful).

But is bigger better, for Wraiths? As in, let's say you've got 12. What would be the best way to split them up? (and why?)
Two units of 6?
Three units of 4?
Four units of 3?
Ideally I think I'd want 4+ in a unit, but I don't know.
I'm leaning towards a single medium strength Wraith unit backed up by a couple of medium sized Scarab units, but maybe two smaller Wraith units could work better (Wraiths acting as Overwatch soaking anvils for the Scarab hammers).

Diverting from the Canoptek topic for a bit, got a mathhammer question:

How many Deathmarks would it theoretically take to down Guilliman in one round of shooting?

**torblind**

What's his defence? 2+/3++? People say he rerolls failed saves but I haven't found that rule.

10 deathmarks do 3 dmg in rapid fire range against 2+/T6

(my dice hammer supports extra MW on 6+ to wound)

**vipoid**

Regarding Wraiths, I was contemplating running something like this:

Spoiler:

I don't think it's a good list (just using the models I own), but everything in it moves at least 10", which could be amusing for Necrons.

(I mention it simply because of the Wraiths.)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
Nothing wrong with that, how about merging the praetorians?

Yeah, that might be a good idea. I'd wondered if units of 5 would be enough (since they have 2 wounds apiece), but I expect you're right.

**torblind**

Nothing wrong with that, how about merging the praetorians?

**torblind**

Note, having 2 units of 5 or one of ten also heavily influences how to best deploy them, 10 praetorians being a big threat on one flank that your enemy will have to deal with (especially in a 1500 pt battle)

**Nagerash**

I'm not sure you need two destroyer lords tbh. I guess one could hang back with the 2 destroyer squads while the other supports the praetorians (I would put then in one unit though). If you drop one Dlord or find 26 points somewhere, you could replace one with a CCB for some nice mobile MWBD. Or push everything in one detachment and spend those 150 points on a Sentry pylon to deal with any fliers, or to increase you wraith or Scarabs, or give some wraiths trans-beamers for some MWs.

Would be a fun list. Maybe some TB would fit the theme as well + will give you quite a few tesla (or gauss) shots. I might have given you too many options

, but I have always got 10+ different lists I want to try out at some point but I sadly don't get around to it...

**vipoid**

Nagerash wrote:
I'm not sure you need two destroyer lords tbh. I guess one could hang back with the 2 destroyer squads while the other supports the praetorians (I would put then in one unit though).

I don't need both, I just thought it would be fun to have 2 of them. As you say, it allows one to advance while the other hangs back to buff the Destroyers.

Nagerash wrote:
If you drop one Dlord or find 26 points somewhere, you could replace one with a CCB for some nice mobile MWBD.

What would he give MWBD to though?

Nagerash wrote:
Or push everything in one detachment and spend those 150 points on a Sentry pylon to deal with any fliers, or to increase you wraith or Scarabs, or give some wraiths trans-beamers for some MWs.

Well, I don't have a Sentry Pylon, so that's right out.

I have 2 more Wraiths and 1 more scarab base (though I could use proxies).

Are trans-beamers any good? I haven't tried them at all yet.

Nagerash wrote:

Would be a fun list. Maybe some TB would fit the theme as well + will give you quite a few tesla (or gauss) shots.

Unfortunately, I only own 3 Tomb Blades. I could use them but it doesn't really seem with it with the current RP rules.

Nagerash wrote:
I might have given you too many options , but I have always got 10+ different lists I want to try out at some point but I sadly don't get around to it...

Oh, I know that one. Believe me. I'm always making lists that I never get around to trying.

I appreciate the suggestions, though I fear this list is rather limited by the number of models I own.

**Odrankt**

You could put the Wraiths in a unit of 6 and the Praetorians in a unit of 10 and put them on opposite sides for flanking?

You can also MWBD or CW the Destroyers for 2+ to hit re-rolling 1s?

Just an idea but it might not work with your list.

**Lothmar**

I still laugh imagining Wraiths and putting their models on top of or around transports and then take them off the table and put them next to the squad that is being transported as you have the melee with the transported unit inside. *chuckle*

**jebully**

Hi all, brand new to the 40k scene but have been reading a lot of tactics and ideas on this thread as it seems to be the best place online for Necron info. My reason for posting was that I've become a classic butterfly collector, have amassed a small army of Necron and now I'm looking at making the best 1'500 list I can. Have only played one game of 1'000 points so I'm not looking for anything that's going to play in a tournament style, but a well rounded list to go and test out the local game clubs would be ideal.

Spoiler:

Any ideas and suggestions on how to play it tactically are most welcome. I imagine there will be a lot of space marines out there as it seems to be what the majority of people collect...

**Klowny**

Overlord
2x10 immortals
10 warriors
Stalker
Nightbringer w/ 3 scarabs/wraiths

Then you can go either lych w/ scythes, or destroyers w/H.D and D/lord.

Lych if you want CC besidesthe nightbringer
Destroyers for shooty.

Either way its a well rounded nice list if im honest.

**jebully**

Klowny wrote:
Overlord
2x10 immortals
10 warriors
Stalker
Nightbringer w/ 3 scarabs/wraiths

Then you can go either lych w/ scythes, or destroyers w/H.D and D/lord.

Lych if you want CC besidesthe nightbringer
Destroyers for shooty.

Either way its a well rounded nice list if im honest.

I took the destroyer & HD with lord in my 1k battle and they ripped apart the space marines so I am tempted to stick with them. Be interesting to see how lych would do if I could get them up the field quickly enough though. In my 1k battle I pretty much stayed purely in shooting range & backed off when they moved up as I don't see the power off CC compared to the firepower the troops choices can put down. Isthis a good idea or do you tend to March into the fight?

**Drewtavian**

I did have a good Cron vs Cron game on sat. Kill points ended up 10 pts to 0 in my favour

Spoiler:

**Sgt_Smudge**

Quick question: I've seen that you're saying Lychguard are bad because of slowness - wouldn't a Night Scythe fix that? Bomb a unit of Lychguard and Overlord up to a weak point in the line and chop to death with warscythes?

**torblind**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Quick question: I've seen that you're saying Lychguard are bad because of slowness - wouldn't a Night Scythe fix that? Bomb a unit of Lychguard and Overlord up to a weak point in the line and chop to death with warscythes?

Sure, but bring 2 or 3 nightscythes, so that at least one survies a turn of enemy shooting, or else your unit of lychguard is lost too

**skoffs**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Bomb a unit of Lychguard and Overlord up to a weak point in the line and chop to death with warscythes?

1- that's going to require two Night Scythes, minimum (one for the Lychguard, one for the Overlord), but preferably three Night Scythes (in case one gets blown up).
2- if you're lucky that's a turn two charge, sure, but there's no guarantee your Night Scythe will still be there once your turn rolls around again (they're not the sturdiest of vehicles).
3- even if your Night Scythes survive to let you disgorge the guys, if the intended target of your Warscythes decide to up and move away between the time you placed the Night Scythe and the time your Lychguard can hit the table, they're going to be stuck there for a full turn with nothing they'll be able to do (they can't move after "disembarking" because Night Scythes lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so if they managed to get far enough away in their own movement phase, welp).

So, in my opinion, no, not the most viable of plans.

**Godeskian**

So can anyone suggest a good cryptek and HQ to ho with 2*20 warriors for a small points game? I remember vaguely that it was discussed a couple of months ago and there were two named characters suggested. (I want to say Orikan and Anrakyr)

**Odrankt**

skoffs wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Bomb a unit of Lychguard and Overlord up to a weak point in the line and chop to death with warscythes?

1- that's going to require two Night Scythes, minimum (one for the Lychguard, one for the Overlord), but preferably three Night Scythes (in case one gets blown up).
2- if you're lucky that's a turn two charge, sure, but there's no guarantee your Night Scythe will still be there once your turn rolls around again (they're not the sturdiest of vehicles).
3- even if your Night Scythes survive to let you disgorge the guys, if the intended target of your Warscythes decide to up and move away between the time you placed the Night Scythe and the time your Lychguard can hit the table, they're going to be stuck there for a full turn with nothing they'll be able to do (they can't move after "disembarking" because Night Scythes lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so if they managed to get far enough away in their own movement phase, welp).

So, in my opinion, no, not the most viable of plans.

It is also really expensive to field. Would be better using Zahndrekh + Obyron for better reliability if your going to be spending 600pts+ to Deepstrike the Lychguard.

**skoffs**

Well, if you're using Zahn+Oby to "deep strike" some Lychguard, you're probably also going to need the Deceiver, so yeah, it would ALSO cost around 600 points to accomplish the same thing (albeit Deceiver delivery is a bit more reliable).
...
Hence the reason people don't usually use Lychguard (there's no "good" way to get them into combat.)

**Klowny**

Godeskian wrote:
So can anyone suggest a good cryptek and HQ to ho with 2*20 warriors for a small points game? I remember vaguely that it was discussed a couple of months ago and there were two named characters suggested. (I want to say Orikan and Anrakyr)

Any will do, all have different uses but overall all are effective, just depends on how much points you want to sink into them.

**Cmdr_Sune**

jebully wrote:
I took the destroyer & HD with lord in my 1k battle and they ripped apart the space marines so I am tempted to stick with them. Be interesting to see how lych would do if I could get them up the field quickly enough though. In my 1k battle I pretty much stayed purely in shooting range & backed off when they moved up as I don't see the power off CC compared to the firepower the troops choices can put down. Isthis a good idea or do you tend to March into the fight?

One problem with CC for Necrons is that you get hit on your turn, but no RP in your opponents. It's also possible for your opponent to deny you placing reanimated models by surrounding your unit. So you really have to pick what you charge.

Necrons CC units (besides Scarabs) are also very expensive.

**Pyrothem**

Any will do, all have different uses but overall all are effective, just depends on how much points you want to sink into them.

Haven't we math hammered out that we need to take as little HQ's as possible to not waste points? (Like getting more units is superior to having a Cryptek math wise everytime)

**Klowny**

Yes but he specifically asked which HQ's to bring with 2x20 warriors

**skoffs**

Pyrothem wrote:
Haven't we math hammered out that we need to take as little HQ's as possible to not waste points? (Like getting more units is superior to having a Cryptek math wise everytime)

You are correct, but you're normally going to need at least one HQ for your army, so there can be some things to consider there.

For 2x20 Warriors, I'd probably just go for a generic Cryptek.
...
But in reality, I don't think I'd take that many Warriors anymore (they just don't pull their weight. Yeah, they'll be harder to kill, but if you actually want to kill things there are better options available).

**Slayer-Fan123**

I also wanted to point out that, while buying more Warriors or Immortals is more efficient than buying the Cryptek, the Cryptek is in a mandatory slot in the first place. Is that to be considered in this discussion?