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Think about it, in a 2000 point list, with Coteaz, you can fit 54 of these bad boys into your list. Thats 6 squads of 9.
The benefits include:
-a 5+ invul save on all your units (not great but always gives you a save)
-54 lascannon, Multi-Melta, or Heavy Flamer Shots shots on turn 1 (talk about an alpha strike, even at bs 3)
-very nice synergy with Coteaz's rule for DSing units that come within 12 inches.
-You always get 2 Weaponsmith bonuses (think about a 36in rending multimelta, or a 60 in rending lascannon!)
-All enemy anti tank guns are rather wasted (as you have no tanks)
-You can beat your opponents with apes, how neat.

The obvious downsides are:
-These guys will get raped in cc
-They will still get blasted to hell with large blast markers (even with the 5+ invul)

I'm gonna playtest em to see how they go but from preliminary ideas I think that the "barrel of monkies" will work well given good target priority. What do you guys think?

No, for the same reasons pointed out in the other thread.

I did a search for another thread on this, mind pointing me in the direction of it?

Here's my question, wouldn't they be really good if you put them in normal henchmen squads?

Also, you won't be getting any Weaponsmith bonuses at 6 squads of 9. You still add the +1 (or in this case +8) on the rolls granted by the 6.

The problem with Jokero spam is they are SO vulnerable to assault.

They also die to vehicle explosions and any form of return fire. Doing the math on them you'll see that even a basic 5-man tactial squad can kill 3.5 of them in cover with basic double tap bolters. When you're running them in small squad sizes that means they'll be running too often to be counted on.

Blood Angels will mess them up man. And do not discount ranged attacks either, the apes are pretty weak all-around. Imperial Guard Lasguns would probably cut them down pretty quick.

Chrysis wrote:Also, you won't be getting any Weaponsmith bonuses at 6 squads of 9. You still add the +1 (or in this case +8) on the rolls granted by the 6.

Too many monkeys together=they just throw poo

Stormbolter warriors and melta gun warriors have the most to gain from a weaponsmith.

Why would you want rending lascannons anyway?

Norade wrote:They also die to vehicle explosions and any form of return fire. Doing the math on them you'll see that even a basic 5-man tactial squad can kill 3.5 of them in cover with basic double tap bolters. When you're running them in small squad sizes that means they'll be running too often to be counted on.

A squad of 9 is a small squad? Shouldn't target priority dictate what is going to get into double tap range? IF a 5 man squad decided to double-tap on the weaponsmiths, that squad would definitely die, 6 heavy flamers would make sure of that.

Goddard wrote:Blood Angels will mess them up man. And do not discount ranged attacks either, the apes are pretty weak all-around. Imperial Guard Lasguns would probably cut them down pretty quick.

What kind of BA List? I don't see storm ravens getting past turn 1 if they deploy, and there isn't any assault (what I'm really worried about) if they reserve. DoA lists are semi problematic, but I don't see them messing me up. At least every gun in this army can take down Mephiston.

Chrysis wrote:Also, you won't be getting any Weaponsmith bonuses at 6 squads of 9. You still add the +1 (or in this case +8) on the rolls granted by the 6.

Ah I didn't know the bonus applied to secondary rolls as well. Noted.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Why would you want rending lascannons anyway?

Because that would be cool? Because no one else has rending lascannons.

It is simply not a balanced list.

1) What do you do in dawn of war?
Everything walks on and can not shoot. You will have trouble finding enough cover within 6"+a run move of the back board edge.

2) What if the enemy goes all reserves?
Dark Eldar with a bunch of Venoms for example. Each one will come on from reserves and shoot you from long range so Coteas can not defend you.

3) What about First Turn assaults?
Land Speeder Storm Scouts, Scout Bikers, Deffcoptas, Scout Shunters. How would you defend against that?


Yes, if you go first, AND if you opponent deploys everything then you will probably win. But if you go second against another alpha strike/first turn assault list, then you are dead.


note: THIS thread tells you what upgrades you can expect to get from a given unit size for henchmen.

Grey Knight Luke wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Why would you want rending lascannons anyway?

Because that would be cool? Because no one else has rending lascannons.

Rending Lascannons are a bit useless since a penetration roll of '6' penetrates anything anyway, and the weapon is already AP2. What you should really care about is the Rending Heavy Flamers.

You also neglected to mention that the majority of the list is LD8, making them unreliable once the apes start dying. They can also shoot a maximum of 6 targets per turn, which is a liability against armies like IG or DE.

Now, drop to 6x5 apes in a Chimera each, and you'd have 520 points left over to play with, with which you could buy, say, 3 Psyfleman and a Techmarine with whatever equipment you feel like (probably a Coversion Beamer). That's a lot scarier to me than 6 squads of T3 on foot, 5++ or no.

While it's a fun concept, the pure "Planet of the Apes" list really falls apart if you face any sort of determined resistance.

Or dpods or missile spam wolves would just blow you to kingdom come nids stealers could take 2 sqauds before they die and a vendetta tankshocking from the edge of the board will make you run.

again what do you do against 350 IG guardsmen. 35 full squads of infantry.

lotta lasguns. You wont get into heavy flame range fast enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
green tide will also wreck you with their shooting and then if you mess up your HF range and they get stuk'in

rovian wrote:Or dpods or missile spam wolves would just blow you to kingdom come nids stealers could take 2 sqauds before they die and a vendetta tankshocking from the edge of the board will make you run.

Of course, if the opponent starts ignoring rules and tank shocks with a non-tank, all you have to do is point out that the planet you're fighting on has been declared as the target for Exterminatus by your Inquisitor in orbit, and as such you immediately win the game.

Yea a Stormraven you can forget - it's deepstriking squads that will ruin you. I would not underestimate Descent of Angels.

If I were playing you, I'd break everything into combat squads, making it even easier to land safely. A unit of five Assualt Marines will have no trouble with the apes.

Not a great spam idea, but definately a good idea in moderation. Let's say you run 2 JWS's in Chimeras with at least 4 Warrior acolytes. Take 2 or 3 squads, your backfield is covered and you have some adequate long range shooting. You can shut down the concerns about deep strikers with servo skulls, strike/interceptor squads and Coteaz's free shooting attack.

For an expensive codex, this locks down your backfield for fairly cheap.

With the rest of the points, you go punch your opponent in the face. I'm wondering what might synergize well with this build in terms of offense. So many options, so little effective counter assault.