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I am fighting lizardmen, bretonians, and soon my friend will get vampire counts. I only can make 1000 points, and I only bought the battleforce, a militia box, and a general; I am on a low budget($50 max), so what should I get next? Here's what the other people have:
Lizardmen have: stegadon, normally scar vet, chameleon skinks, lots of saurus
Bretonnians have: too many knights, 2 trebuchets

The 2 trebuchets and such from the bretonnians can be rough, but here's what I recommend:

A wizard.

A shadow wizard could cause serious problems for those armies. Pit of Shades is a great spell that you may not always get, but if you do can cause serious trouble for them. It instantly kills trebuchets and has a 1/3 chance [or better, if the stegadon is I1] of killing steggie. Works great on saurus too.

Did the battleforce come with a cannon? It should work great for killing both the stegadon and the trebuchets. Don't waste it on the knights, they get a ward save against it.

As for the knights, they're not that great after they charge. Try a large unit of fanatics, which are unbreakable, or just make sure you have a VERY large unit of spearmen or swordsmen, such that you have more ranks than the bretonnians [who will usually only have 2 maybe 3] and will be stubborn. Then you can charge in the side with some knights of your own, or a steam tank [risky, with that trebuchet around].

That's what I'd recommend. Make sure you get a wizard, bulk up your main infantry unit, and get a unit of knights. Even just 5 can make a big difference coming in the flank.

1000 points is my favorite point value, and I play it often. A wizard is the best choice. In low point games magic can be devastating even if you only get off one or two powerful spells with irresistible force.

Another option option could be outriders. Normally they are so-so. In low point games however, they can be of great use. Enemy shooting is the bane of outriders. They will be effective against Brets and Vamps, but could easily be taken out by skinks. They are not as good as a wizard, or maybe even a mortar or two, but they could still prove useful.

Hope that helps,

-Jim

the battleforce includes 20 state troops, 10 ranged infantry, 8 knights, and 10 greatswordsmen. I converted a greatsword to a wizard, but what I like to do against the lizardmen is the sword of fate, which in the hands of a templar grand master(my favorite lord type) can kill the stegadon almost garunteed in one turn. against the bretonians I am inclined to take a wizard with the lore of metal and as many knights that I can, although he can outrange me, I have superior armor and in the games I played with him, nearly every trebuchet shot ended in a 20 man infantry unit turning into a 3 man unit or less; one thing we thought was true but wasn't was that the trebuchet ignored ALL armor, but apparently knights get 3+ save still. I took out trebuchets with a fire wizard and crossbowmen in one game, while a metal wizard and templar-master were keeping the knights in a tight spot. he decimated my infantry, and the only reason I won was because he didn't have the sense to kill my 1- 2- or 3-man infantry squads that miraculously didn't fall back. I'm playing 1000 points with lizardmen tomorrow, so I hope to win, and will try to make a battle report on youtube or something...

If the trebuchet is a problem, deploy in a long line of just 2 ranks ish. At least for the first turn. When he's set up to charge you, reform.

You take a lord at 1000 points? Do all your friends?

no; empire benefits from cheap heroes that admittedly aren't as good fighters as other armies, but a captain with a 3+ save is only 60 points, and I like to take the sword of fate (wounds a single chosen hero/lord/mc on 2+ with D3 Wounds and no armor) on him and a level 2 battle wizard, a templar grand master with a runefang leading a unit of the inner circle knights (4 Strength), a unit of 20 swordsmen, 10 handgunners, and 20 halberdiers. my standard army. I was thinking about taking the wizard with the armor of tarnus and a mount, and giving him the lore of beasts so that he can join the grand master's unit and give him extremely broken bonuses,

You may have better luck if you drop some of your current heroes and include warrior priests.

-Jim

Grand Master cant get Runefang, general of the empire only.
I'd say take any warmachine thats not hellblaster.
BSB is essential, especially for Empire and their average leadership.

he can't? I saw on the website one example army that one of the game designers took(the all-mounted one) had a grand master with runefang. I thought then that when it says "general only" it was refering to the official general, not the character type. you know, the character with the highest leadership is the general of your army.

You may consider dropping the rune fang anyway. For the same points you could have 20 hallies, spear men, or free company. Ask yourself if the magic weapon is worth 20 rank and file troops.

-Jim

I am a EMpire Gunline player, and I have wrecked any army that comes my way. Handgunners may have crap ballistic skill, but they are cheap for what they do. Against armies of elite, high armour troops (Brets, WoC ect) it is a sign of the apocalypse (Brets have a 2+ save, dropped to 4+, so statistically half of the wounds get through), and I swear by theheart of my army, 20gunners with 2 detachments of 10 Handgunners. Have you ever though of investing in a Hellblaster, its a risky choice but the empire is built on risk and reward tactics, and my local WoC player (former Bret player) shivers everytime I even mention the machine. Nwe have some of the best (and dangerous) machines in the game, use them and watch your enemy cry as 20 str 5 hits slaughter your enemies knights.

MEQ Breaker wrote:he can't? I saw on the website one example army that one of the game designers took(the all-mounted one) had a grand master with runefang. I thought then that when it says "general only" it was refering to the official general, not the character type. you know, the character with the highest leadership is the general of your army.

It says "General of the Empire only", so only they can take them.

Okay, in reply to the guy that suggested dropping the Runefang, I took it on Grand Master to defeat Stegadon-rank and file troopers get mowed down by any saurus-, but I guess if there's a chance that he can't take it, I won't use it. In reply to the gunline player, that's actually the reason I chose empire; I liked the idea of having lines of gunmen, but that turned out to annoy the other player (which is my brother) and so I try to make my games as friendly as possible, not competetive.

Try 2 more cannons.
Against brets, who deploy deep with knights and run trebs, they are great.
Against lizards with fairly expensive infantry, steggadons, and/or salamanders, they are great.
Against VC, just drop shots through the general each round until he fails the look out.
Check ebay, cannons are usually dirt cheap.

-Matt

Gunlines, competative, nonsense . I usually have to field a gunline to even stay in the game, but thats because I have to deal with WoC, Ogres, Vampire Counts (Gouls and Grave Guard oriented) and a whole lot of other nasty stuff. When I field a Templar Grand Master, I give him the Sord of Fate, Armour of Destiny and the Seed of Rebirth (2+ Save, 4+ save then a 6+ save hehe) and send him and his inner circle with great weapons or lances racing towards whatever the swords after in that match, usually their top caster or general (has your captain ever drunk a potion of speed and killed a vamp lord without him getting a wound or attack in... its nice).
But if your playing fair, I say a huge block of halberdiers (30 minimum, 3 deep 10 wide) with a warrior priest for the hate rerolls. If you use a shadow wizard in support, you can also drop the enemies int to two or lower so you hit first. Thats 34 rerollable str 4 hits for less than 250 pts, give them a detachment of gunners or somthing to break a charge, then either more halberdiers or free company to hurt the ranks.

Sanctus-Malas wrote: I give him the Sord of Fate, Armour of Destiny and the Seed of Rebirth (2+ Save, 4+ save then a 6+ save hehe)

You cant take both ward and regen this edition.
I'd personally go with Holy Relic and Laurels of Victory with full mundane armor plus a lance or GW. Dont really run Grand Master often though, I'd prefer support oriented Empire heroes over combat ones.

You cant take both ward and regen this edition.

I am playing the lizardmen game today, since it got postponed. I will make a battle report if I can...


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http://youtu.be/B9n4orcO4so
the link should take you to the battle report. I didn't change my list because I just wanted to see what would happen if I used the one I planned to use earlier. didn't work out too well...

I, only having the battleforce and a set of skills similar to those of a blind squirrel, am going to get a great cannon or two for my birthday which is coming up along with a set of knights (hopefully), but if there is any sort of mistake I made, then let me know. I know I took the runefang like I was advised against, and I deployed all of my troops in a too spaced-out manner, along with trying to wait out the saurus with my knights which got them killed, but I am trying to learn, and any further advice would be helpful. for my next game though, I am planning on having less magic focus, and put a captain in every unit, and focusing on mundane equipment more, meaning no runefang, because I had realized how I matched the amount of saurus he had with state troops and militia, which is not the empire's way. I should have had 20 more state troops in that 100 points.

I would like to make another plug for warrior priests. Take as many as you reasonable can and put them in close combat units. They will give your units hatred, which makes a bit of a difference. They can also make your unit unbreakable with a bound spell which makes a whole heck of a lot of difference, even if it is only for a turn or two. Not to mention the fact that they add dispel dice.

The captain is a nice option for a general who is short on points, but even at this point value the warrior priest truly shines. He may cost more points, but he is sort of a force multiplier.

If models are a concern, you could always get creative with some green stuff and make yourself a dual purpose model. A bit of a hood, or some scrolls/books could do the trick.

-Jim

I am going to play another game today, hoping to make a better quality report. I won't post my list because the person that I am playing with found this forum, but I am just going to say a few things...
no runefang
no magic-spam
I'm not going to spread out my army in order to take him on in man vs. man-eating dinosaur in 1-to-1 combat
And I'm not going to get shot to death from a distance: after all, I'm an empire player...


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meanwhile I want a little bit of advice for taking care of bretonnians; should I use a wizard with the lore of metal? should I use blocks of infantry? or match his knights with my own?

Against Bretonnians take the lore of metal. His knights have a lower armour save at 2+ instead of 1+ but they have a ward to make up for it. I would take deep units of infantry to absorb charges then use your great weapon calvery to flank his lances. That should solve that problem fairly quick. If you hit him with S6 Inner circle knights his save will be a 5+/5+ and you should be able to do some damage there.

how will I take out his maiden? match her magic with my own as well, or attack her head on?
by the way, I am still playing the game, but the gunline army is working perfectly. here's the list:
20 hand gunners, full command, hochland long rifle: 200
Master Engineer: 65
Great cannon: 100
Helblaster Volley gun: 110
8 knights, lances and shields, full comand, standard of arcane warding: 254
Templar grand master, obsidian amulet: 175
Lvl 2 battle wizard, lore of fire: 100 flame storm, fireball
1004 points




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Turn 4 or 5, gc and 5 knights died, but that's it. he's down to a scar vet and 12 saurus, with my knights in combat with them and the rest of my army aiming at them, waiting to see what happens...

His wizard will provide MR to the knight unit she is in, she will also be started in the second rank. Depending if she is a lord or hero choice she will give a MR of 1 or 2, so that unit's ward vs magic will be between a 5+ and a 3+. So your own magic might not work well there, just tie them down in combat or charge them and you will be fine.

Or shoot them ith a lot of projectiles
Against the Brets, it goes without saying that you shoul use the Lore of Metal, make them fry in their own armour. If you want to deal with the Damsel, 3 words, Hochland Long Rifle. It will take a few turns but she will die eventually (especially if its a Outrider Champion behind the scope). Then there is also cannons, lots of cannons.

here's the battle rep for the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq8fiKx3dR8
against bretonnians I will use 2 or 3 cannons to fire at knights and trebuchets, as well as a wizard with the lore of metal, and several blocks of infantry with heros inside. maybe a unit of knights with the one banner that gives flaming attacks, strike fear into those annoying knights. If I get outriders, then I will use them.

it is decided; I am going to get a great cannon and another battleforce. I was going to use greatswords to take out hordes of zombies and skeletons, or even saurus. the extra two ranks of knights would prevent saurus steadfast with their own extra rank or two, and the great cannon has proved useful in killing stuff in general. I am hoping this will help, but I might need help in larger games.

Another shaky but good batrep. Thanks for posting it.

I like the direction you're going, personally. I'm a fan of the State army...State Troops, Greatswords, Knights...
As much as I like the religious aspect of the Empire (Flagellants, Warrior Priests, Arch Lectors), I'm going to stay away from those for a little while, and focus on the regular guys first.