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I have 2 gripes with the Res Orb.

1) If using it on a unit with 10 or less models you basically waste it as you wont roll enough RPs to get the points back e.g. 10 Immortals, 6 Destroyers. or you use it on a block of Warriors due to them making the most out of a 2nd RP. But, at that stage, you might as well just bring a Ghost Ark so you constantly have 2 RP phases.

2) it can only be used on Infantry Models. Why give us an add-on that is already expensive to begin with and restrict it? We have a stratagem that lets us bring Canoptek stuff back with RP. If I could use the Res Orb on a RP'd unit of Wraiths I would think the 35pt would be worth it. Even if you only got an extra model back.35 pts would becomes 55pts. I am also annoyed it doesn't affect Tomb Blades. Fair enough they are cheap as chips and shouldn't die. But when you are down to your last TB and need as many RPs as possible than 2 phases of RP becomes golden.

for me to use Res Orb it would either need its usage changed from it being used once only to it being used once per infantry unit e.g. You can buff all you infantry unit once with the Res Orb rather than the res orb be one-use only. If I was able to give all my infantry units 2RPs for 1 turn that would be clutch. Hell, it could even make our RP stronger. But, GW doesn't want to do that.

Heeya folks!

Been thinking about two tourney list, let me know what you think of them.

List 1:


List 2:

Doctoralex wrote:
Heeya folks!

Been thinking about two tourney list, let me know what you think of them.

List 1:

Spoiler:

Mephrit Battalion

HQ:
Illuminor Szeras, Warlord (Immortal Pride)
Overlord /w SoL, Veil

Troops:
18x Warriors
10x Warriors
10x Immortals /w Tesla

Elite:
Deceiver

Fast attack:
6x Destroyers

Heavy support:
DDA

Nihalakh Super-heavy aux detachment

Vault

Thoughts behind the list
A Silver Tide that get's Illusion'd forward with Szeras. Might rely a bit much on getting first turn and a 3 on the Grand Illusion roll.
I'm making the Vault Nihalakh because when it might get 3" near an objective, I can give it a 3++. Not much point keeping it Mephrit, Talent for Anilhilation isn't that good on it.
A Silver Tide thrown forward has gotten me a lot of succes lately. Though I wonder if I have enough anti-tank with the Destroyers, one DDA and Szeras...
Also, no points for Scarabs to hold objectives! :(

List 2:

Spoiler:

Nephrekh Battalion:

HQ:
Cloaktek
Overlord /w Hyperphase sword, Veil

Troops:
8x Immortals /w Gauss
5x Immortals /w Tesla
5x Immortals /w Tesla

Fast Attack:
5x Wraiths
6x Destroyers


Heavy Suppport:
DDA

Nihalakh Super-heavy aux detachment

Vault

Aux Support detachment (Mephrit)
7x Tomb Blades/w Tesla; 5 /w Shield Vanes, 2/w Shadowlooms and 5 /w Nebula Scopes

Thoughts:
A bit of a weak troops choice this time, focusing more on fast attacks. I'm making the Tomb Blades Mephrit to increase their firepower.
dunno... I know this list will be more powerful than the previous one as Silver Tide is a big no-no, but I just feel like the HQ's and the troops are just such a tax for... practically nothing. Will the Wraiths, Destroyers and the Tomb Blades be able to pull all the weight?

Regarding the first list, I'd rethink the plan on Grand Illusion some units forward and how reliable it is. I'd plan a strategy around 2 units instead.

With a CP reroll, the chances of getting a 3 are 55.5%.
With a CP reroll, the chances of getting a 2 or better are 88.9%.

If you're only looking at 2, then you have the issue of only having 1 unit of troops between your Deceiver and warlord! You could veil the another to add some more padding, but that also depends on you getting first turn.

I think the plan for the vault is great. To be honest, I'd think Grand Illusion the vault may be a better option for if you get first turn. Deceiver, Vault, and a screen of warriors would be very hard to deal with.

 Odrankt wrote:
I have 2 gripes with the Res Orb.

1) If using it on a unit with 10 or less models you basically waste it as you wont roll enough RPs to get the points back e.g. 10 Immortals, 6 Destroyers. or you use it on a block of Warriors due to them making the most out of a 2nd RP. But, at that stage, you might as well just bring a Ghost Ark so you constantly have 2 RP phases.

2) it can only be used on Infantry Models. Why give us an add-on that is already expensive to begin with and restrict it? We have a stratagem that lets us bring Canoptek stuff back with RP. If I could use the Res Orb on a RP'd unit of Wraiths I would think the 35pt would be worth it. Even if you only got an extra model back.35 pts would becomes 55pts. I am also annoyed it doesn't affect Tomb Blades. Fair enough they are cheap as chips and shouldn't die. But when you are down to your last TB and need as many RPs as possible than 2 phases of RP becomes golden.

for me to use Res Orb it would either need its usage changed from it being used once only to it being used once per infantry unit e.g. You can buff all you infantry unit once with the Res Orb rather than the res orb be one-use only. If I was able to give all my infantry units 2RPs for 1 turn that would be clutch. Hell, it could even make our RP stronger. But, GW doesn't want to do that.

Res orb is for destroyers, should you want to bring 2 units with a Dlord and a cryptek and slowing move forward.
Can also be worth your points for elites: flayed ones, lychguards (do t pretorian too?).
Of course since everybody plays immortals, your squad of 10 usually gets whiped out one shot anyways.

Either way i never focus my lists around RP, unless i field 60 warriors. If it happens, it happens, i get dudes back up and am happy. But necron vehicules are much strongers than our infantry now. I focus on that.

StarsKekkai wrote:
Hi everyone!

I am a new 40k player in the UK and trying to build an army with Necrons while discovering the game.
The friend who introduced me does not know the Necrons at all so his advice is quite limited in this matter.

Before someone starts telling me off, I have been reading this thread for a few days now and my head is spinning...
I understand there is no perfect army, that there are armies made for competition (list with 17 destroyers and 5 DDA?!) but it is very difficult to know where to start...

I think the best advice would be to not take anything here too seriously! If you're new to the game you don't want to be playing a Destroyer + DDA spam list- it might be powerful but it's not going to be as interesting as a more varied list, and isn't necessary in most "normal" games of 40k. A lot of the discussion here focuses on trying to find tournament winning lists, but I doubt most of us actually play with or own the models for these lists!

Some basic starting points:

- Get a DDA or two. There really aren't any other good options for long range anti-tank in the codex, so you need DDAs at any level of play.

- Go for Immortals as troops. I only say this because Warriors require more support, and to have a list built around them. Immortals will more easily slot into whatever list you feel like trying.

- Don't spam anything. The rules are getting changed and updated all the time. Units that are good now won't be forever, and the same is true of bad units. If you put too many eggs in one basket an FAQ could hit you hard, so it's best to have a varied collection.

- The Veil of Darkness relic is very good.

- It's best to go with a rounded list to start with. 3 units of troops with 2 HQs supporting them (Basic Overlord and Cryptek are fine). Some fire support from DDAs and Destroyers. Some cheap, fast units to screen and grab objectives- Tomb blades or scarabs.


So with what you have:

1x Overload
24x Warriors
6x Scarabs
5x Deathmarks
3x Wraith
1x Doomsday Ark or Ghost Ark (magnetized)
1x Triarch Stalker
3x Destroyers

A battalion Detachment is kind of essential, so you need another HQ and more troops. I would recommend a Cryptek and a box of Immortals. Then you can have either 2x 5 Immortals + 20 warriors, or 2x 12 Warriors + 10 immotals. Tesla Immortals would be best as you have Gauss on the Warriors.

For fire support you have the DDA and the Triarch Stalker (Use the twin Heavy Gauss option). I would suggest getting another 3 destroyers for a unit of 6.

Then for your objective grabbing + screening you have the Scarabs, wraith + Deathmarks. 3x wraith, 2x 3 Scarabs and 5 Deathmarks will let you spread out and get all over the board. Don't expect the Wraith to be slaughtering things in assault, or the Deathmarks to be executing characters, they will serve you well used primarily for grabbing objectives.

So a Cryptek, box of Immortals, and box of Destroyers will set you up with a nice rounded list to start from:

So I played the tourney with twin vaults, pylon and deciever. Lets say it was not what I expected. Two games were very quick, one me doing the tabling, and one i got tabled. The other two games were a 9-11 loss and a 11-9 win... very odd games but not what I was expecting.

Thoughts - we cant compete at all with dark eldar right now. I was thinking what I would actually build to counter that and there is not much I can put forth that stands a chance.....

Deathwatch are super awesome! They are the only way to play marines now, they are them at their strongest.... spend come CP and their heavy hitters are wounding on 2's rerolling 1's.... with rapid fire overcharged plasma that gets to reroll 1's...

The cron list itself...

Pylon continues to be a sub par unit. Being in nihilakh and rerolling and getting the +1 to save rolls is very nice, but it still is too expensive for its damage output in a tournament setting.
The vaults are good, but there is this weird spot in mortal wound generation, the things are more geared towards more infantry style killing, I think one could be competitive if you had other good units around it killing the vehicles, it really wipes squads of 5+ very quickly, and is terrifying to overwatch when its usually wounding on 3's. On each game I got an overwatch that ended in 15+ wounds dealt to the enemy.... wiped whole squads on overwatch.

Deceiver is crucial to the lists effectiveness. I think a Squad of wraiths or a t/ctan or destroyers getting illusioned up is the best use for it, get those heavy hitters within range ASAP.

Thoughts - we cant compete at all with dark eldar right now. I was thinking what I would actually build to counter that and there is not much I can put forth that stands a chance.....

I assume the DE were a load of light skimmers spewing poison, Darklight, and Dissies?

Destroyers, DDAs, and Tomb Blades are our best bet counter to them. Destroyers can knock out 2 skimmers a turn. It's a tough match up for sure, and it sounds like the only useful things you had would be the Tesla Spheres. Pylon is overkill vs DE and the C'tan powers are not good vs single model units.

Pylon can do work, their planes they were spamming need to die, but its points spent better elsewhere.
Lots of Dis cannons, a squad of 20-30 wyches ate 2 squads of bloodletters in CC.....
Alot of lists had reapers in them, crazy good psykers. The DE are the new power part of the faction, you bring the good stuff from the craftworlds/harlies to make them crazy.

Ive played drukhari a few times now, they are decpetively hard to kill, and if you spam vehicles they have dis and blasters in venoms to wipe you out, while the exact same list has the firepower in poison to table tyranids aggressively quickly. And theyre fast. And they can be buffed by some of the best psykers in the game rn of craftworlds.

I've only had the displeasure of fighting pure DE so far. The soup sounds like it could be truly horrible.

 Klowny wrote:
Pylon can do work, their planes they were spamming need to die, but its points spent better elsewhere.
Lots of Dis cannons, a squad of 20-30 wyches ate 2 squads of bloodletters in CC.....
Alot of lists had reapers in them, crazy good psykers. The DE are the new power part of the faction, you bring the good stuff from the craftworlds/harlies to make them crazy.

Ive played drukhari a few times now, they are decpetively hard to kill, and if you spam vehicles they have dis and blasters in venoms to wipe you out, while the exact same list has the firepower in poison to table tyranids aggressively quickly. And theyre fast. And they can be buffed by some of the best psykers in the game rn of craftworlds.

Euhm, how can they be buffed by Craftworld spykers? Craftworld psychic powers have to target 'Asuryani' (craftworld Aeldari). Drukhari (Dark Aeldari) Can't be targeted by them.

Doctoralex wrote:


Euhm, how can they be buffed by Craftworld spykers? Craftworld psychic powers have to target 'Asuryani' (craftworld Aeldari). Drukhari (Dark Aeldari) Can't be targeted by them.

Doom is very good for DE and has no restrictions IIRC.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Euhm, how can they be buffed by Craftworld spykers? Craftworld psychic powers have to target 'Asuryani' (craftworld Aeldari). Drukhari (Dark Aeldari) Can't be targeted by them.

Doom is very good for DE and has no restrictions IIRC.

I believe only friendly Craftworld Aeldari benefit IIRC.

 iGuy91 wrote:


I believe only friendly Craftworld Aeldari benefit IIRC.

Nope. Just says "you can reroll failed wound rolls" against the target.

Yeah one of the biggest competitive problems currently is how loose the restrictions on aeldari are. Ynnari have veem nerfed into oblivion but the rest of tge factions just mix and match as they like with little hinderance. The FAQ changes did very little to stop this. If they want to stop some of this they need to disallow the use of muliple factions strategems in one army and hard limit the targets of psychic powers. A lot of the craft world stuff just lists aeldari as the limiter which does almost nothing.

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with Necrons performance at the London GT, with an overall win rate of 43.8% (32W - 41L). And that statistic is boosted with the 2 best necron lists which both ran 3 Vaults. So really, unless someone is building a cheesy list, it's more like 38.1% (24W - 39L)

I'm sure we'll see it fluctuate with time and more tournies, but with our new codex and FAQ, is our best bet at being competitive to run 3 Vaults?

EDIT: Updated as some Necron players reported as a specific Dynasty instead of Necrons

I've always felt that looking to 40k for anything resembling balance is a hilariously pointless endeavour.
While it might be better now that it was before, that isn't really saying much.

Oh well, at least we can give the majority of armies out there a good run for their money, instead of the laughing stock we were back in the index days....

Necronplayer wrote:
I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with Necrons performance at the London GT, with an overall win rate of 43.8% (32W - 41L). And that statistic is boosted with the 2 best necron lists which both ran 3 Vaults. So really, unless someone is building a cheesy list, it's more like 38.1% (24W - 39L)

I'm sure we'll see it fluctuate with time and more tournies, but with our new codex and FAQ, is our best bet at being competitive to run 3 Vaults?

EDIT: Updated as some Necron players reported as a specific Dynasty instead of Necrons

To be fair...I believe this GT heavily uses the basic book missions, instead of the scoring metrics used by the ITC and such. Not sure if it would have made a difference, but its worth noting.

Played a local tournament this weekend with this list -



It was some odd missions that several were using for prep for a larger tournament. First game was against Cadian tank line. DDAs did okay but not spectacular, destroyers dropped turn two, killed a tank, then died (this is a theme for them). Wraiths soaked 2/3s of his army's firepower, assaulted a tank then got permanently put down in his second turn. Immortals worked with the DDAs to finish off tanks, and also ate up a Scion squad. In the end, I won 14-9.

The second game was against an Alpha Legion list. He had 3 demon princes, a couple of contemptors, three units of obliterators, a unit of berserkers, a unit of possessed, and the rest were units of cultists. I castled in a corner and screened with the wraiths and scarabs. He came in somewhat piecemeal so I was able to draw him in and kill units a few at a time. Once he moved up enough, I veiled into his backfield and wiped the cultists there, gaining me some points and denying him several. Ended up winning 30-(don't remember what his score was but I think it was single digits).

For the third game, I went in sitting in first place. Unfortunately, I was getting a migraine, and up against a very solid player running a triple Riptide list. The DDAs were performing badly, I could barely think with how bad my head hurt, and he was making no real mistakes for me to capitalize on so it was a loss. He had almost max points while I think I had around 10-15.

All in all I finished 6th, won the door raffle (lol), and had a mostly good time (players were great, but that migraine was awful).

Takeaways:

Nothing particularly new learned that I hadn't already seen in other games.

Overlords - Key buffing units that can add an extra wound or two here and there and can be hidden on objectives when the squad they buff is wiped. Don't rely on them to accomplish more than that though.

Immortals - The Swiss army knife of the Necron book. These guys were probably my all stars overall. They could help solve almost any problem by simply slinging tons of hits at it.

Scarabs - Did nothing fancy, just their job. Screened when needed, held objectives when needed, diverted fire from more important things when needed

Wraiths - Every single game these were the number one focus of my opponents during the first two turns. They didn't kill much (I'd be surprised if they made back their points for any game, even if you totaled what they killed over all three), but I didn't really take them for that. They soaked thousands of points of shooting and melee, allowing me time to take down critical targets and get in position with other units.

Destroyers - they come in, put a bunch of fire on something, then die....every single time I've used them. I like them, but I don't expect more than that.

Cryptek - Got me many CPs back (which has been critical in a few games), and helped keep the DDAs firing.

DDAs- Steady wounds from range, they will utterly disappoint from time to time. Really they turn on the juice if you get them into range of something that doesn't like gauss flayers while still pinging large targets with the main gun. QS is nice but there is a ton of S6-7 2-3 dmg guns out there these days. Even mass S5 1dmg stuff is scary to them.

Good read.
So after a few weeks and 122 pages of tries, what's our ultimate best list?

Mine's is similar flavor. Goes like this.



With this you maximise the tesla immortal, 30, with possible 2X MWBD + methological destruction if needed.
Traditional 3 DDA to shoot down big stuff then move and avoid -1 penalty on the big gun. Rely on flyers from T3. I find Cryptek is more useful running to repair DDA than try to pop a 5++ on immortals, yet can come back if needed for RP rolls.
And classic double destroyer drop, 1st one with VoD to alpha, and if possible pop in cover, on a far flank, and have 2+/5++ destroyers with the cryptek. They can survive or draw insane amount of firepower. Second unit deepstrike on T2.

My list is fragile but packs quite a punch. Expensive in CP too you want to cash in early and hope the warlord will get a lucky few back. You always need to shoot down more than you loose, if you do not think you will start pull everything back and let the DDA force the enemy to advance. Destroyers pop anywhere, protect your immortals until needed.

Necronplayer wrote:
I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with Necrons performance at the London GT, with an overall win rate of 43.8% (32W - 41L). And that statistic is boosted with the 2 best necron lists which both ran 3 Vaults. So really, unless someone is building a cheesy list, it's more like 38.1% (24W - 39L)

I'm sure we'll see it fluctuate with time and more tournies, but with our new codex and FAQ, is our best bet at being competitive to run 3 Vaults?

EDIT: Updated as some Necron players reported as a specific Dynasty instead of Necrons

Well that's because it was mostly Mephrit Necrons and bad lists - easy signs of bad players. Now if we can get someone like Josh Death, Nick Nanavati, etc to play our army, then we'd know the actual relative power of it.

I think i found a translation error in the german necron codex. Imotekhs phaeron of the sautekh dynasty ability says he can use his MWBD ability twice in one turn, but he must target one friendly unit of SAUTEKH-INFANTRY with it both times. Abilities with the same name dont stack. In english it says he must target units, which is plural. Can anyone from germany with a codex confirm this ?

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I could barely think with how bad my head hurt

I always pack head pain pills whenever I know I'm going to be playing anything long. Has always come in handy.

Da W wrote:
what's our ultimate best list?

If we're talking competitive, from what we can tell, it's either
• Triple Vault Deceiver Bomb
• Nephrekh Destroyer Cult + Sautekh DDA³
though the case might be made for Wraith Wing, too.
(personally I prefer a mix of 2:1 Destroyers to Wraiths ratio).
It pains my soul that we haven't seen Tomb Blades preform well in the competitive scene... yet.

 p5freak wrote:
I think i found a translation error in the german necron codex. Imotekhs phaeron of the sautekh dynasty ability says he can use his MWBD ability twice in one turn, but he must target one friendly unit of SAUTEKH-INFANTRY with it both times. Abilities with the same name dont stack. In english it says he must target units, which is plural. Can anyone from germany with a codex confirm this ?

Should perhaps be "each time" instead of "both times"

Essentially he can do for free what other overlords must pay a CP to do.

torblind wrote:

Essentially he can do for free what other overlords must pay a CP to do.

I wonder can he spend CP and do it for a third time...

Yeah i also kinda feel like Necrons didn't get the high boost from Index to Codex.
Most Index of other armies were quite okay and got a reasonable boost.
Necrons were by far the worst index army and the Codex did some work but they are still nothing compared to Deldar/CWE/Guard/Nids. They should just change REAP somehow or make our units more durable to actually use the core rule of the army. As for now i feel it just makes our units overcosted/undergunned.

I honestly don't think our army is the issue. Sure, we have some subpar units etc, but as has always been the case with 40k, inter-codex balancing is pretty awful. There are just vast swings in power between every book.

Biasn wrote:
Yeah i also kinda feel like Necrons didn't get the high boost from Index to Codex.
Most Index of other armies were quite okay and got a reasonable boost.
Necrons were by far the worst index army [b]and the Codex did some work but they are still nothing compared to Deldar/CWE/Guard/Nids. They should just change REAP somehow or make our units more durable to actually use the core rule of the army. As for now i feel it just makes our units overcosted/undergunned.

Uh... hello? Deathwatch???

Deathwatch could at least use allies. But alright i give you Deathwatch.

-Sentinel- wrote:

torblind wrote:

Essentially he can do for free what other overlords must pay a CP to do.

I wonder can he spend CP and do it for a third time...

Sure he can. Actually it would be twice again, so four times total.