Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/05/22 10:48:48
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I'm curious, usually with this kind of list I would go Sautek battalion and Nephrek outrider. Methodical Destruction is great on Tesla Imms. However, I have written (but not tested) a list similar to this with the intention of deep striking the immortal units and the destroyers. Is that what you were doing?
Sure he can. Actually it would be twice again, so four times total.
I don't think so. Imoteks ability lets him use MWBD "twice a turn". The stratagem lets you use MWBD "a second time". The wording is unfortunate as it means you can't use MWBD 3 or 4 times on Imotekh.
It does let you use MWBD twice on units that don't have to be Sautekh though, so he can do a unit or two of Nephrek Destroyers despite being a different Dynasty.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 10:55:13
2018/05/22 12:00:49
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I'm curious, usually with this kind of list I would go Sautek battalion and Nephrek outrider. Methodical Destruction is great on Tesla Imms. However, I have written (but not tested) a list similar to this with the intention of deep striking the immortal units and the destroyers. Is that what you were doing?
.
This gives me a ton of options for deployment, which is more valuable to me than a relatively small increase in the immortals already impressive firepower. I'd rather have the strat on the mercurial DDAs, and a ton of deployment options.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2018/05/22 13:24:23
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I'm curious, usually with this kind of list I would go Sautek battalion and Nephrek outrider. Methodical Destruction is great on Tesla Imms. However, I have written (but not tested) a list similar to this with the intention of deep striking the immortal units and the destroyers. Is that what you were doing?
Sure he can. Actually it would be twice again, so four times total.
I don't think so. Imoteks ability lets him use MWBD "twice a turn". The stratagem lets you use MWBD "a second time". The wording is unfortunate as it means you can't use MWBD 3 or 4 times on Imotekh.
It does let you use MWBD twice on units that don't have to be Sautekh though, so he can do a unit or two of Nephrek Destroyers despite being a different Dynasty.
Then you use MWBD once, use the stratgem to do it again, then use his last one from his original skill.
This gives me a ton of options for deployment, which is more valuable to me than a relatively small increase in the immortals already impressive firepower. I'd rather have the strat on the mercurial DDAs, and a ton of deployment options.
What I was asking was; have you deep struck with multiple Immortal units and did it seem worth it? You can't get MWBD but I'm thinking it might be good.
2018/05/22 15:44:56
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
This gives me a ton of options for deployment, which is more valuable to me than a relatively small increase in the immortals already impressive firepower. I'd rather have the strat on the mercurial DDAs, and a ton of deployment options.
What I was asking was; have you deep struck with multiple Immortal units and did it seem worth it? You can't get MWBD but I'm thinking it might be good.
I have in one or two games, but in those it was more about making sure my immortals survived a first turn alpha strike, than about positioning. Rarely will I put more than one unit of immortals and the destroyers in reserve, usually it's just the destroyers. As you said, you lose a turn of MWBD, and with the VoD, I have the ability to get behind their lines already. The ability to jump out 12" and gain board position in the center on the first turn is usually more than enough mobility.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2018/05/22 17:19:50
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Well that's because it was mostly Mephrit Necrons and bad lists - easy signs of bad players.
No matter how many times you repeat it, saying Mephrit is bad will never be true.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/05/22 17:41:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Mephrit isn't bad per se but every time I take it i find my army too slow to react to battlefield objectives and always wish I had taken sautek or nephrekh personally. Also Getting into the position to use mephrit seems to be a case of "got there, did it, then out of range to do it again for the next few turns"
I think mephrit is a trap.
Also I can't bring myself to use destroyers. I have read every page of this tactical thread and the common theme I read is
"They show up, destroy something, then die". They are too expensive to throw away like that I think. Unless they are being used to get shot at and die, distraction carnifex like, then I can see them being a useful tactical option.
2018/05/22 18:01:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Azuza001 wrote: Mephrit isn't bad per se but every time I take it i find my army too slow to react to battlefield objectives and always wish I had taken sautek or nephrekh personally. Also Getting into the position to use mephrit seems to be a case of "got there, did it, then out of range to do it again for the next few turns"
I think mephrit is a trap.
Also I can't bring myself to use destroyers. I have read every page of this tactical thread and the common theme I read is
"They show up, destroy something, then die". They are too expensive to throw away like that I think. Unless they are being used to get shot at and die, distraction carnifex like, then I can see them being a useful tactical option.
Remember, all that shooting is going to land somewhere, and likely eating up almost a similar points worth. Knowing that it will come for your destroyers isn't a weakness, its just harder to play it right.
2018/05/22 18:06:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Also I can't bring myself to use destroyers. I have read every page of this tactical thread and the common theme I read is
"They show up, destroy something, then die". They are too expensive to throw away like that I think. Unless they are being used to get shot at and die, distraction carnifex like, then I can see them being a useful tactical option.
Try using them on the flanks to pick off isolated targets whilst keeping out of line of sight. Terrain is your friend.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/05/22 18:13:49
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Also I can't bring myself to use destroyers. I have read every page of this tactical thread and the common theme I read is
"They show up, destroy something, then die". They are too expensive to throw away like that I think. Unless they are being used to get shot at and die, distraction carnifex like, then I can see them being a useful tactical option.
Try using them on the flanks to pick off isolated targets whilst keeping out of line of sight. Terrain is your friend.
To add on to this, go for the maximum threat overload approach. Drop them in when you have other units at their doorstep too, not just when you want to kill something. Force them to pick between a Vault/Deceiver combo within 12", Wraiths about to lock multiple units up next turn, destroyers in the backline, etc.
2018/05/22 20:05:19
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
If we're talking competitive, from what we can tell, it's either
• Triple Vault Deceiver Bomb
• Nephrekh Destroyer Cult + Sautekh DDA³
though the case might be made for Wraith Wing, too.
(personally I prefer a mix of 2:1 Destroyers to Wraiths ratio).
It pains my soul that we haven't seen Tomb Blades preform well in the competitive scene... yet.
I'll put that triple Vault Deceiver bomb thing in the fantasy wish theory hammer drawer,
I have yet to find a human being spending 750+$ for 3 vaults just for the sake of trying it out.
2018/05/22 20:12:38
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
If we're talking competitive, from what we can tell, it's either
• Triple Vault Deceiver Bomb
• Nephrekh Destroyer Cult + Sautekh DDA³
though the case might be made for Wraith Wing, too.
(personally I prefer a mix of 2:1 Destroyers to Wraiths ratio).
It pains my soul that we haven't seen Tomb Blades preform well in the competitive scene... yet.
I'll put that triple Vault Deceiver bomb thing in the fantasy wish theory hammer drawer,
I have yet to find a human being spending 750+$ for 3 vaults just for the sake of trying it out.
London GT had one on the WarhammerTV stream.
2018/05/22 20:22:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Azuza001 wrote: Mephrit isn't bad per se but every time I take it i find my army too slow to react to battlefield objectives and always wish I had taken sautek or nephrekh personally. Also Getting into the position to use mephrit seems to be a case of "got there, did it, then out of range to do it again for the next few turns"
I think mephrit is a trap.
A Talent for Annihilation is 100% the reason to use Mephrit. It makes things dead sooner than Methodical Destruction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/22 20:23:11
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/05/22 21:06:05
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Azuza001 wrote: Mephrit isn't bad per se but every time I take it i find my army too slow to react to battlefield objectives and always wish I had taken sautek or nephrekh personally. Also Getting into the position to use mephrit seems to be a case of "got there, did it, then out of range to do it again for the next few turns"
I think mephrit is a trap.
A Talent for Annihilation is 100% the reason to use Mephrit. It makes things dead sooner than Methodical Destruction.
This. Use it on a squad of Tesla Immortals and things just disappear. Even better if the enemy is within half range.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2018/05/23 02:07:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Talent For Annihilation is best used on a unit of 9 Tesla Tomb Blades. It will be putting out a bunch more hits.
However, that's only one unit shooting.
Methodical Destruction, on the other hand, can let the entire army benefit from it. Granted, it is only against one enemy unit, but if you REALLY need that unit dead (eg. a Lord of War), then this strat is worth it.
On the topic of Destroyer usage, people who lose their Destroyer units after only getting one round of shooting out of them, how are you using them?
Are you sending them up the table?
Are you Veil'ing them up?
Are you deep striking them in?
More importantly, are they being supported or just being sent in by themselves?
Ideally you want them to hit at the same time as everything else so they don't stand out like a sore thumb, obvious and easily smashed. Even better if you've got multiple units of them so you've got a bit of wiggle room with redundancy.
I usually play two dropping in turn 2 via Nephrekh. I was thinking about having one start on the table to be Veiled up for some nice alpha strike surprise, but they would be the only thing up that close so the likelihood of them surviving until turn two when the second unit deepstrikes in will be very low. Could it be worth sacrificing them if it means being able to cause a ton of almost unavoidable damage twice in a row? I don't know. Probably not, but I could try it out.
2018/05/23 03:00:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
skoffs wrote: Talent For Annihilation is best used on a unit of 9 Tesla Tomb Blades. It will be putting out a bunch more hits.
However, that's only one unit shooting.
Methodical Destruction, on the other hand, can let the entire army benefit from it. Granted, it is only against one enemy unit, but if you REALLY need that unit dead (eg. a Lord of War), then this strat is worth it.
Methodical Destruction is only good in those cases though. It costs too much to use it every turn, and there's not going to be a target that needs killing like that always either.
Note, i'm not poopooing either Sautekh or Methodical Destruction. They are both good.
I'm just trying to point out that Mephrit is just as good because a lot of this thread keeps calling it trash.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 03:00:56
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/05/23 03:09:41
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
How many LoW are even viable at this point. They're a liability. Even if they are "good" you can just flub some saves and bam 1/4 of your army is dead. With more models luck evens out a lot more. Nick Nanavati has come to the same conclusion. You can't rely on stuff like Magnus/Shadowswords/etc unless it's just stupid powerful. They are usually simple to play and therefor, you can't outplay your opponent.
And I still go back to "I need more CP to begin with, not more "OK damage upgrade" ways to spend the damn things". Now it it was something stupid like 1CP for +2 to hit and to wound - sure.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/23 03:29:58
The LoW example was just that, an example.
Usually every game, in almost every matchup, your opponent will have a key unit that most of their strategy revolves around. Take out that unit and the battle will probably swing in your favor.
With Talent for Annihilation you could possibly do it.
With Methodical Destruction you will more than likely do it.
The difference is simply one unit shooting vs shooting at one unit. Both are viable in the right scenario.
(and for the record, I'm a big fan of Mephrit in certain combinations)
2018/05/23 04:41:45
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Do they have 1 key unit? Who exactly does that? Redundancy is key to winning competitive 40k. Even If there's a single key unit(note: really durable key unit that will easily survive 2 full units of destroyers/DDA), they will do everything in the world to protect it - DG untargetable, -1 to hit, +1 to invul, deepstrike etc etc.
And 1/6 more hits on one unit will not suddenly make you work miracles. +1 to hit for everything is of course better, but what good player will put their 1 amazing unit within 24''+move of a bunch of your army? If we had 36''+ range on most of our army - sure. But right now it's too situational IMO. Ofc that stratagem is not why you take Sauhtek(can't spell dynasties ._.) so its just a bonus in the end I guess.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/23 04:51:15
I was at a 1k tournament where someone ran magnus and mortarion and some cheap infantry. Both are almost impossible to kill at 1k. He placed second, but only because the opponent made his infantry unchargeable by putting them on the first floor of a ruin. There were no crons, it was pre-codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 05:22:47
2018/05/23 05:25:49
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
rvd1ofakind wrote: How many LoW are even viable at this point. They're a liability. Even if they are "good" you can just flub some saves and bam 1/4 of your army is dead. With more models luck evens out a lot more. Nick Nanavati has come to the same conclusion. You can't rely on stuff like Magnus/Shadowswords/etc unless it's just stupid powerful. They are usually simple to play and therefor, you can't outplay your opponent.
And I still go back to "I need more CP to begin with, not more "OK damage upgrade" ways to spend the damn things". Now it it was something stupid like 1CP for +2 to hit and to wound - sure.
Here is a list being run in my gaming group... ha ha ha
If we're talking competitive, from what we can tell, it's either
• Triple Vault Deceiver Bomb
• Nephrekh Destroyer Cult + Sautekh DDA³
though the case might be made for Wraith Wing, too.
(personally I prefer a mix of 2:1 Destroyers to Wraiths ratio).
It pains my soul that we haven't seen Tomb Blades preform well in the competitive scene... yet.
I'll put that triple Vault Deceiver bomb thing in the fantasy wish theory hammer drawer,
I have yet to find a human being spending 750+$ for 3 vaults just for the sake of trying it out.
Hi, im that human being. Ill be trying it out on Saturday. Ill try and do a report when its over. The price was just over $200 for all three of mine. So with paint id say $230-$250.
So I haven't had a lot of time to play my Necrons recently and I was wondering how useful have Crypteks been for you all? I've seen people say their 5-6 destroyers get killed to a man in one turn with no chance for RP. How often does the Crypteks ability come up and be very useful?
2018/05/23 09:58:01
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Msolve wrote: So I haven't had a lot of time to play my Necrons recently and I was wondering how useful have Crypteks been for you all? I've seen people say their 5-6 destroyers get killed to a man in one turn with no chance for RP. How often does the Crypteks ability come up and be very useful?
Depends on the unit its being used on.
You will only RP Destroyers if they are in cover and you got lucky on your opponents turn.
I think Crypteks work best with Warriors, Flayed Ones and Tomb Blades. I don't really see much use for anything else that has RPatm.
I'm not sure how people are finding their Destroyers so fragile. In terrain they have a 2+ and T5 so small arms fire is next to useless against them- 486 bolter shots!. D3 and 2 damage weapons are quite good but tend to give a 4+ or 5+ Sv and need two wounds to go through per Destroyer. 40 overcharged Plasma guns should do it. D6 and 3 damage weapons are what you need to kill them really well, but it still takes 20-25 BS3+ Lascannons to wipe a unit of 6 in cover.
If they're deep striking they have the added defense of being able to land in a safe-ish spot, and get the drop on whatever can threaten them. In my experience they certainly do die, because the enemy tends to throw everything they can at them, but it takes a lot of doing. Mine seem to survive with a model or two left most of the time, which is really bad for someone who just put a whole shooting phase into them.
Re: Talent for Annihilation:
This. Use it on a squad of Tesla Immortals and things just disappear. Even better if the enemy is within half range.
The extra 3.3 hits for 1 CP in this scenario is hardly mind blowing. The strat is fine but nothing to get excited about.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/23 10:31:06
2018/05/23 10:23:39
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Msolve wrote: So I haven't had a lot of time to play my Necrons recently and I was wondering how useful have Crypteks been for you all? I've seen people say their 5-6 destroyers get killed to a man in one turn with no chance for RP. How often does the Crypteks ability come up and be very useful?
I really like cryptek with Immortal pride warlord trait as your warlord. This forces your opponent to kill your squads fully, without relying on comand checks etc. This often leads to situations where he doesn't commit enought (or his dices go bad and he don't have additional guns atthis side of the board) and you have 1-2 models reamining, after that half of your unit come back; or he commits too much and some of his firepower is wasted. I mean, there is no problem if 1 space marine from 10 survives. But if thats 1 immortal, thats much worse.
I really like 20 necron warriors as a screen - being fearless and 4+ RP is their best friend. They often first take a punch, some of them die, then they got teleported on opponents side of board with VoD where they start fight with opponent scoring units.
2018/05/23 10:47:28
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I have in one or two games, but in those it was more about making sure my immortals survived a first turn alpha strike, than about positioning. Rarely will I put more than one unit of immortals and the destroyers in reserve, usually it's just the destroyers. As you said, you lose a turn of MWBD, and with the VoD, I have the ability to get behind their lines already. The ability to jump out 12" and gain board position in the center on the first turn is usually more than enough mobility.
I tested this out last night with this list:
Spoiler:
Nephrek Battalion:
CCB Cryptek + Veil
10 x Tesla Imm
10 x Tesla Imm
10 x Tesla Imm
6 x Wraith
6 x Tomb Blades
6 x Destroyers
DDA DDA
I really liked it! I put the Destroyers and 2 Immortal units in Translocation Crypts, with the 3rd Immortal unit being veiled by the Cryptek. Compared to my usual Sautekh battalion it felt like I was exchanging firepower for maneuverability. The loss of firepower was more than made up for though; Deepstriking so much stuff was great, but the ability to put 2x MWBD on 20 Immortals the following turn, and have them and the destroyers move 10-12" and shoot 24" sealed the deal. Not only was it really effective, it was much more fun to play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 10:47:57
11,100 pts, 
7,000 pts
~1660
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
