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So I've managed to find an army that I don't know how in the world to beat.

150+ boy green tide with KFF big meks and kan walls.

Effectively at 1500 pts you can field 150 boyz, 9 kans, a KFF, and a few upgraded PK nobz.



So what in the world can dish out enough shots/attacks to table this army? IG tank spam (maybe), BA dreadnought spam (could work with blood talons).



What would you field at 1500pts in an attempt to table this?

Flamers for the boys, MC's for the kans?

Bury them in ordnance. It's true that IG can do this the best way.

Leman Russ Battle Cannons, Griffon Heavy Mortars, Collossi, Basilisks, Manticore Rockets...hurl large-caliber high-explosive shells in their direction until there's only a fine green mist in the air. Clean the rest up with Flamers. Hellhounds are great here, too.

Other armies...yeah, gets more difficult there. Units that could help might be Fire Prisms (large blast), Vindicators, Hammerheads (large blast)...Dark Eldar could try massed splinter fire from mobile Raiders.

Yeah, IG has the solution, for the rest...I'm no expert, but it looks rough. Careful assault tactics maybe, try to separate and assault the squads with stuff like Wyches, win combat, let them take fearless saves...but I only see that ending bad when the rest of the tide gets close.

Yea, I would need to know what you are using for a list....

For SM? I would want vindicators, Sergeant telion for his PKlaw removing awesomeness, MM/HF speeders, sternguard (2+ wound ammo, or S4 AP5 ignores cover? You decide!), assault terminators, land raider crusaders...heck even tactical marines going on full auto will cut down on the bodycount. Whirlwinds could very well also be a good pick here, particularly the S4 AP5 Ignores cover bit. KFF is nice and all, but not against things that go "NOPE! No cover saves at all for you. Ever."

You could always do a 6 dread MOTF list too.

Deploying on one side of the field may also work. With that many models, he will have no choice but to either cluster up to be a nice just blast/template magnet or stretch out and what sounds like a bunch of footsloggers being way out in the middle of nowhere.

With nids....Well...first off I am going to be putting spore mines in his deployment zone to cluster him up when he sets stuff down, and then i'm probably going to use mawlocs on him. Giggling incessantly. And then I will hit him with a whole lot of hive guard and little bugs.

Space wolves? Land raider crusaders, packed with blood claws and possibly backed up by long fangs. Enjoy.

A decent SoB list would probably love to go up against it. Exorcist makes extremely short work of the cans, and when the Orks get to where they need to be have fun with the likely 10-14+ flamer and heavy flamers going their way.

Possibly a highly mobile Eldar list as well, but with so many Orks on the board it won't be easy to zoom around forever.

Not really hard to tailor a list to beat a greentide....

Just focus fire on one unit at a time.

Shoot everything at the Big Mek till it dies, maybe try to drop flame templates on them. Then just open fire with blast templates till there are none left.

It's easy to tailor to table Green Tide. Its strength is that against an all comers list, they won't have the anti infantry firepower to take down all the Orks.

DE can take them out pretty well. Wyches with haywire grenades can both take out the kans in CC, and kill big mobs of boyz (though requires multi assaults if you want to take on undamaged units, or good combat drug results). Wracks and/or harmies with liquifier guns are super effective against mobs, as are razorwing jetfighters with their missiles.

OP:

Honestly, any well-balanced army that you make can take on a kan-wall - orks or DE. Rather than focusing on trying to build a list to take it down, why don't you focus on creating a balanced, TAC army - then solicit tactics with that army to take down the kan-wall? There is zero value in learning how to build an armylist specifically to take down another army list.

There's an entire thread full of people here advising someone to slap a bandaid on an amputated arm. Shame on you. Help the OP fix his glaringly obvious problem: He doesn't know how to build a TAC army, how to theme an army, or how to use the tools he has to apply to a situation. Find out more information. Find out what he's using. Why do 90% of dakkanauts spew advice without caring what the list in question is in the first place? The value of that advice is absolutely zero. Pointless, worthless, static. The other 10%, start rabbling.

Flamers are a bad idea. No matter how many flamers you have, you've only got one shot. And if you fluff that shot, you've still got a crap-ton of boyz chewing on your head.

Personally, at 1500 points (as a Guard player) I would load up on Valks (for rocket pods), blob squads and Hydras. I'll have enough men to chew through your troops, enough ordnance to put serious holes in your lines, and enough S7 shots to eat through your kans (the hydras then move to chewing up boys squads)

S_P

i have had some moderate success against orks with blood angles. run dante and equip sanguinary guard with death masks. they usualy fail the test and then are reduced to weapon skill 1, makes it that much easier for you and harder for them.

Actually I'm the guy with the 180 boyz... I just stopped playing it because I've tabled nearly every opponent I've met and have yet to lose a game with it (I've had a number of ties). My question is whether or not its possible to table 150+ boyz at 1500 pts.

Space marines have little to no chance as they can't throw enough pie plates or templates to challenge the green tide.

SoB with a ton of flamers might actually work.

IG gun/tank lines get overwhelmed by turn 2 or 3 and there are enough hidden PK's to pop the tanks while multi assaulting.

I've yet to run against eldar/DE so their speed might prove difficult.

Space_Potato wrote:Flamers are a bad idea. No matter how many flamers you have, you've only got one shot. And if you fluff that shot, you've still got a crap-ton of boyz chewing on your head.

Personally, at 1500 points (as a Guard player) I would load up on Valks (for rocket pods), blob squads and Hydras. I'll have enough men to chew through your troops, enough ordnance to put serious holes in your lines, and enough S7 shots to eat through your kans (the hydras then move to chewing up boys squads)

S_P

Sure, flamers backed up by nothing good will have issue. Flamers backed up by storms of splinter or bolter fire and frustratingly hard to kill models (sisters and DE) do just fine. Even with SMs, I usually think it is a good idea to give the sarge a combi weapon that matches the squad special weapon, so 2 flamers have a very low chance of biffing that.

Flamers don't work. I've doubled up on 30 man Boyz squads /w full strength SoB squads. Fire one squad and he pulls all the casualties from where the other squad can fire...

the answer is called.... gk
Or any sirious cc squad, like 10 termies with lc and one or 2 with hammers and shields the 8 or so will cut down the boyz while the hammer termies can take out kans or take their invult from the pk nob.
The black tide.... black templar, and any template weapon, a burnaboy squad could take out at least one boyz squad stick them in battle weagons and cook some orks.

Amaya wrote:Flamers don't work. I've doubled up on 30 man Boyz squads /w full strength SoB squads. Fire one squad and he pulls all the casualties from where the other squad can fire...

How many flamers in that squad? Mixing special weapons like I've seen (specifically melta/HF squads) isn't the greatest idea. Makes the squad suck at both. I personally recommend dominions with 3 flamers, or celestians with 2. Add immolators to that, and templates from more than 2 directions, and orks just don't last. Also, don't get out if you have fire points and didn't move more than 6.

Thunder. Fire. Cannons.

60 Inch range, 4 s5 ap6 cover ignoring templates a turn each.

3 of them - 300 pts.

Typhoon Landspeeders, 90 pts each. 2 frag missles and a heavy bolter/flamer after moving 12 inches.

7 of them - 630 pts

Rifleman Dreads, 125 pts each, 4 TL S8 shots a turn.

2 of them - 250 pts

5 man scout squads with snipers, camo cloaks and missile launcher.

2 of them - 200 pts

MOTF W/ Conversion beamer - 120pts

Total - 1500 pts.

12 S5 no save blasts, 16 frag missiles, 8 TL S8 shots and 1 S10 AP 1 blast. Per turn.

Green tide? MO LIKE GREEN MIST!

CageUF wrote:So I've managed to find an army that I don't know how in the world to beat.
150+ boy green tide with KFF big meks and kan walls.
Effectively at 1500 pts you can field 150 boyz, 9 kans, a KFF, and a few upgraded PK nobz.
So what in the world can dish out enough shots/attacks to table this army? IG tank spam (maybe), BA dreadnought spam (could work with blood talons).
What would you field at 1500pts in an attempt to table this?

any army can take down 150 boys. They all have stuff in their lists to take on infantry. Some people seem to get carried away and only take Lascannons, multimeltas and melta guns and yeah if you do that you are dead.

What list do you want to use? Once we know that we can point out strats that will work or fixes that will help against green tide but seriously any wellcrafted army can deal with the tide. A tailored list can utterly destroy green tide.

Jatyu wrote:Thunder. Fire. Cannons.

60 Inch range, 4 s5 ap6 cover ignoring templates a turn each.

3 of them - 300 pts.

Typhoon Landspeeders, 90 pts each. 2 frag missles and a heavy bolter/flamer after moving 12 inches.

7 of them - 630 pts

Rifleman Dreads, 125 pts each, 4 TL S8 shots a turn.

2 of them - 250 pts

5 man scout squads with snipers, camo cloaks and missile launcher.

2 of them - 200 pts

MOTF W/ Conversion beamer - 120pts

Total - 1500 pts.

12 S5 no save blasts, 16 frag missiles, 8 TL S8 shots and 1 S10 AP 1 blast. Per turn.

Green tide? MO LIKE GREEN MIST!

Thunderfire cannons are one of the better units to kill cover save only mob armies. Still the most Ive run into is 1 and the SM player got tabled. The other major issue is if your scouts get killed you're going to more or less lose 2/3 times.

This is one of the better builds to specifically kill da green tide, as it gives me very few units to assault and therefore avoid your massive number of cover save ignoring small blasts.

CageUF wrote:Actually I'm the guy with the 180 boyz... I just stopped playing it because I've tabled nearly every opponent I've met and have yet to lose a game with it (I've had a number of ties). My question is whether or not its possible to table 150+ boyz at 1500 pts.

It's possible, yes.

SW rhino rush or Tcav heavy lists have far superior firepower at alll range bands (because you can't afford Lootas at 1500). They either dump guys and shoot you to death while blocking movement with hit-on-6s rhinos or Tcav simply dive in and brutalize you with combat rez. 10-15 MLs makes a mockery of Killa Kan squadrons and Tcav can beat Kans in CC anyways. Jaws makes a mockery of a large I2 troop blob.

BA can throw masses of FNP PA guys your way and beat you via combat rez. Mephiston murders Kans and BA Dreads can really take down anything in the list with near-impunity.

DE make a mockery of your numbers. They just continue shooting and scooting, hopping over your blobs with mobile firepower or assaulting you with Wyches. Wyches with re-roll to wound crush Boyz in CC and win via combat rez.

GK.... Castellan Crowe is a hard counter to the Green Tide. Think about this list:

Crowe
5 Purifiers, dual psycannon, psyback (x5)
Psyfle Dread (x3)
1495 (have to drop one psycannon to make points)

15 S6 t/l heavy bolter shots plus 9 psycannons (18-36 shots) plus 12 t/l S8 autocannon shots knock your Kan wall out with ease, probably before turn 3. And that's the good news.

Crowe and a 5 man Purifier squad, casting cleansing flame, put 30 wounds onto a 30 strong boy mob at I11. Then they get to strike, and are just about guaranteed to kill the handful of boyz remaining.

If the GK player can reliably pass his Ld9 psytests, there is no hope for green tide. At best, you trade squad for squad, but with rhino blocking and Dreadnoughts able to tarpit your boyz squads once the KK wall is dead, reality is that the GK player can simply leapfrog through your boyz mobs at will, dropping 15-45 wounds on them with cleansing flame alone and killing them via combat rez.

Killing 150 boyz isn't that hard, and hasn't been for a couple years. Shooty armies will have a harder time of it than CC armies in transports, but it's certainly possible as long as you can block off movement and retain mobility. Unless you're Castellan Crowe. Then you just mash your face into your IWIN button and let nature take its course.