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Why are all races so unreasonable, I mean they have a freaking warp spewing out all kinds of daemons and gods and who knows what else, they've got swarms of bugs from another galaxy coming in and they've got killa plants with lots of dakka. I mean if the elder are so smart wouldn't they see the only way to survive is to ally, can't the imperium see that "we worship the emperor god" has gone too far, especially after that GK incident with the sisters of battle. The tau seem to be friendly enough, but they just keep taking more planets and kill all the indigenous unless they ally. I know I'm probably wrong about some bits but really, no race has ever come to an agreement, besides the BA bromance with the crons... I just don't get it.

DAWARBOSS wrote:Why are all races so unreasonable, I mean they have a freaking warp spewing out all kinds of daemons and gods and who knows what else, they've got swarms of bugs from another galaxy coming in and they've got killa plants with lots of dakka. I mean if the elder are so smart wouldn't they see the only way to survive is to ally, can't the imperium see that "we worship the emperor god" has gone too far, especially after that GK incident with the sisters of battle. The tau seem to be friendly enough, but they just keep taking more planets and kill all the indigenous unless they ally. I know I'm probably wrong about some bits but really, no race has ever come to an agreement, besides the BA bromance with the crons... I just don't get it.

Yes...yes....continue down the path of heresy....Khorne will welcome you with open arms.

becuz there is like only WAR and stuff like that

and WAR

GW made all the races xenophobic and/or insane so that there could be in-universe excuses for every faction to fight every other faction, including itself.

Because 40K is set up in a GrimDark universe that gets rewritten every 4 or so years.

Short answer: It gives a setting for the universe and an excuse for any faction to fight another.

Long answer: For the same reason any real race/group in real life is unreasonable. People all have their own goals to pursue and as a result will come to blows if they can't have their way.

If the races are all reasonable , there will be no wars.

And GW will be sculpting Space Marines doing chacha with Orks and having after noon tea with Tyranids

Well, Here's the way I see it.

Imperium/Space Marines: Live or Die, we must achieve the Emperors' dream!

Tau: Join our way of life and thinking or die.

Eldar: We must save our race! (Too paranoid to ally themselves with anyone)

Dark Eldar: Survival above all else and preserve the true ways of the Eldar!

Tyranids: Eat, eat, then eat some more.

Chaos/Chaos Space Marines: Fulfill the whims of <Insert Chaos God name here>

Orks: Waaaaaaaaaagh!

Necrons: Our time will come. For now we sleep.

Now I know I'm not completely accurate here but honestly the only two I can see ever really teaming up is Space Marines and Eldar but I don't ever see it being more than a temporary thing.
The Tau are too caught up in there own idealism to ever team with someone that has ideas of their own.
Everyone else has their own agenda that takes priority over anything else.

LunaHound wrote:
And GW will be sculpting Space Marines doing chacha with Orks and having after noon tea with Tyranids

You say this like it's not an absolutely awesome idea.

Fafnir wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
And GW will be sculpting Space Marines doing chacha with Orks and having after noon tea with Tyranids

You say this like it's not an absolutely awesome idea.

I'd love to see a Hormagaunt struggling to hold a tea cup.

So I shall assume they built a giant buffet for the Tyranids as well.

Because this is WAR hammer, not HEATED-BUT-STILL-ELOQUENT-DEBATE hammer!

Fafnir wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
And GW will be sculpting Space Marines doing chacha with Orks and having after noon tea with Tyranids

You say this like it's not an absolutely awesome idea.

+1, and I need a new, non-tea splattered keyboard.

DAWARBOSS wrote:Why are all races so unreasonable, I mean they have a freaking warp spewing out all kinds of daemons and gods and who knows what else, they've got swarms of bugs from another galaxy coming in and they've got killa plants with lots of dakka. I mean if the elder are so smart wouldn't they see the only way to survive is to ally, can't the imperium see that "we worship the emperor god" has gone too far, especially after that GK incident with the sisters of battle. The tau seem to be friendly enough, but they just keep taking more planets and kill all the indigenous unless they ally. I know I'm probably wrong about some bits but really, no race has ever come to an agreement, besides the BA bromance with the crons... I just don't get it.

Because life really is a zero sum game.

Or in the words of the imortal bard. "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."

The Imperium is too xenophobic and dogmatic to consider allying with the Eldar. You could ask the same questions about history.

Why didn't the English, French and Spanish team up to stop the American's expansion?
Why didn't Austria-Hungary accept Serbia's acquiesecene to 99% of their demands in 1914?
Why didn't people see that the 1920s were just an inflating economic bubble?
Why didn't the French and British act like nice reasonable people at Versailles?
Why didn't the Medieval Church realize that killing Jews in retaliation for the plague was illogical?
Why didn't the Mongols negotiate with their targets instead of fighting?
Why did the Romans fall into Hannibal's trap at Cannae?

Humans have always been illogical. The Imperium just takes this to an extreme. When you're the magical omniscient observer, or looking back in hind sight, things make more sense, and you can point at and bemoan the illogic of the people of the time/other universe....but the people of the Imperium don't have you omniscience. They only know what their superiors tell them, and their superiors tell them that worshipping the God-Emperor is the only thing keeping them alive.

ChrisWWII wrote:The Imperium is too xenophobic and dogmatic to consider allying with the Eldar. You could ask the same questions about history.

Why didn't the English, French and Spanish team up to stop the American's expansion?
Why didn't Austria-Hungary accept Serbia's acquiesecene to 99% of their demands in 1914?
Why didn't people see that the 1920s were just an inflating economic bubble?
Why didn't the French and British act like nice reasonable people at Versailles?
Why didn't the Medieval Church realize that killing Jews in retaliation for the plague was illogical?
Why didn't the Mongols negotiate with their targets instead of fighting?
Why did the Romans fall into Hannibal's trap at Cannae?

Humans have always been illogical. The Imperium just takes this to an extreme. When you're the magical omniscient observer, or looking back in hind sight, things make more sense, and you can point at and bemoan the illogic of the people of the time/other universe....but the people of the Imperium don't have you omniscience. They only know what their superiors tell them, and their superiors tell them that worshipping the God-Emperor is the only thing keeping them alive.

The Imperium is not alone in this. The Eldar have no interested in allying with inferior species, remember the Eldar are in their own way Xenophobic. Biel-tan want to restore the Eldar empire using the bones of whoever stands in their way as the foundation. And as far as we know the Imperium is right in saying that the Emperor is keeping them alive. Tau want to conquer the galaxy, the problem is that not everyone is interested in the greater good so Tau must do a lot of killing. Just as bad a humanity or Eldar in the end.

Imperium/Eldar/Tau are the "unreasonable" ones I guess as Chaos/Tyranids/Orks/Necrons/Dark Eldar really don't give a damn or are the very forces out to destroy the galaxy.

Tau I think would willingly ally with the Imperium or Eldar for a long-term plan to defeat their mutual threats. They're probably the least unreasonable here.

Harriticus wrote:Imperium/Eldar/Tau are the "unreasonable" ones I guess as Chaos/Tyranids/Orks/Necrons/Dark Eldar really don't give a damn or are the very forces out to destroy the galaxy.

Tau I think would willingly ally with the Imperium or Eldar for a long-term plan to defeat their mutual threats. They're probably the least unreasonable here.

Tau don't really want to ally, they want everyone to bow before 'the greater good' of the Tau. Imperium and Eldar aren't interested because before the Tau were a blink in the galaxy's eye. The Human or Eldar ruled the galaxy in relative peace before everything went to hell with the fall of the eldar for Eldar and age of strife for Humans.

Allying is for wussies. And no snivellin' grot should be a wussie

Tau always try peaceful negotiations first, when they first met the imperium they tried to negotiate with them, but the imperium saw them as rivals so just started killing them. Tau use violence if the enemy is unwilling to join the Greater Good, so that they might get 'persuaded' to join the Greater Good after some battles.

I also heard there was a short story where Tau were being attacked by a swarm of Tyranids I believe, the moon of the planet awakened as a Necron Tombworld, the Necrons killed all the Tyranids. The Tau saw the Necrons as heroes and so held a large welcoming festival for the necron ships. As soon as the Necrons landed they killed everyone.

ZeroSamurai wrote:Tau always try peaceful negotiations first, when they first met the imperium they tried to negotiate with them, but the imperium saw them as rivals so just started killing them. Tau use violence if the enemy is unwilling to join the Greater Good, so that they might get 'persuaded' to join the Greater Good after some battles.

I also heard there was a short story where Tau were being attacked by a swarm of Tyranids I believe, the moon of the planet awakened as a Necron Tombworld, the Necrons killed all the Tyranids. The Tau saw the Necrons as heroes and so held a large welcoming festival for the necron ships. As soon as the Necrons landed they killed everyone.

Friend You are blinded by Tau propaganda. The reason the Imperium launched the Damocles Crusade is because of this:

"Exactly when the Tau Empire and the Imperium of Man first made contact with one another is unknown, for each was slow to recognise the nature of the other. For the Tau's part, it was fringe, dissident or overtly renegade elements of humanity that they first encountered, in the form of Free Captains and pirates across the coreward borders of the region called the Damocles Gulf in the Ultima Segmentum to the galactic east of Terra. The initial contacts ranged from friendly negotiations and trade to outright hostility. It was some time before the Tau Water Caste understood the fact that the humans they had encountered were merely the forgotten outcasts of an incomprehensively vast interstellar empire that stetched across the entirety of the Milky Way Galaxy. This empire was so vast, that any overt agression on the Tau's part might lead to the outright destruction of their nascent empire and the extinction of their species.

Though many of the more passionate leaders of the Tau Fire Caste called for a war of conquest against the Imperium, the Ethereals issued their instructions for the integration of the Imperium of Man into the Tau Empire. The Water Caste were to align themselves with nearby dissident human factions and over the course of several decades of patient negotiations insinuate themselves into the courts of several dozen Imperial Commanders (Planetary Governors). The influence of the Tau thus spread further and more rapidly into the Imperium than any amount of military conquest could have taken it, until a swathe of human worlds were trading with the Tau Empire in preference to the Imperium's own merchant trade cartels and Rogue Traders. Alien goods and technology flowed through the markets of these border worlds in blatant contradiction of the laws of the Imperium. The second phase of the Ethereals' instructions were thus ready to be initiated.

Upon a score of worlds, Water Caste envoys whispered long-rehearsed words into willing ears. The seeds of rebellion had long been cultivated by the Tau and now bore traitorous fruit as each Imperial Governor declared himself free of the shackles of the Imperium's rule. In the ensuing power vacuum, the Tau Empire expanded, claiming for themselves those human worlds that came to be known as the Farsight Enclaves.

The Imperium's response was unusually swift but characteristically brutal. War was declared and the Damocles Gulf Crusade was launched by the Ultima Segmentum Command, involving units of the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy and the several Chapters of Space Marines. "

"the manifest destiny of the Tau to expand the Greater Good across the galaxy. "

I would like anyone reading this to take the analogy of what would happen if the USA was paying no attention to Mexico and generally ignoring Mexicol until it started using their hidden negotiators and manipulators caused Hawaii to secede from USA and join Mexico. I'm sure I don't have to say that America would not be happy about this development.

DAWARBOSS wrote:can't the imperium see that "we worship the emperor god" has gone too far

Worship of the Emperor and faith in He upon His Golden Throne is the only thing saving humanity from the depredations of the dark powers.

ZeroSamurai wrote:Tau always try peaceful negotiations first, when they first met the imperium they tried to negotiate with them, but the imperium saw them as rivals so just started killing them. Tau use violence if the enemy is unwilling to join the Greater Good, so that they might get 'persuaded' to join the Greater Good after some battles.

I also heard there was a short story where Tau were being attacked by a swarm of Tyranids I believe, the moon of the planet awakened as a Necron Tombworld, the Necrons killed all the Tyranids. The Tau saw the Necrons as heroes and so held a large welcoming festival for the necron ships. As soon as the Necrons landed they killed everyone.

Tau negotiations look like this:
"Join us and become a third class citizen!" "No" "Okay."
Two weeks later:
"Join us and become a third class citizen or DIE." "No." "Okay"
Two weeks later with a fleet:
"DIE!"
Life in the Tau Empire for non-Tau ist most likely worse than on most imperial worlds. Your average hiver's life isn't all that bad. The Imperium is huge and it doesn't monitor everyone. The Tau Empire on the other hand is small enough to play big brother on everyone. In addition to that, you are just a lesser alien, not a proper Tau. Human auxaliaries, Kroot and Vespids are cannon fodder.

The little story just tells us that some Tau are icredibly stupid. There's no way the remorseless, emotionless robots that do not communicate und just go around, killing everything might be evil. Who throws a welcoming party for robots in the first place?!

I think we are a little to hard on the IoM. Sure they are xenophobic to a fault, but they have a lot of responsibility and can't afford to take risks in case they fail.


The Tau are not just join or die. They have so many more tools in their tool box to deal with "stubborn" races. They can use assassinations, voting fraud, selective aid, kidnapping, creating of a common enemy, bribery, mind control helmets, all kinds of things. The tau are not join or die. There is no option. You join.

Edit: Where do people get the idea that koot/vespid are cannon fodder? The codex says the opposite.

Gain of salt, still.

Or the Tau will die. The Tau try truly large scale attempts to sway parts of the Imperium, and they will be crushed.

It should be -
"Join us or Die!"
"No, you die."
"Oh crap."
"Indeed, FOR THE EMPEROR!" *Chainsaw motors rev-up*

DAWARBOSS wrote:Why are all races so unreasonable, I mean they have a freaking warp spewing out all kinds of daemons and gods and who knows what else, they've got swarms of bugs from another galaxy coming in and they've got killa plants with lots of dakka. I mean if the elder are so smart wouldn't they see the only way to survive is to ally, can't the imperium see that "we worship the emperor god" has gone too far, especially after that GK incident with the sisters of battle. The tau seem to be friendly enough, but they just keep taking more planets and kill all the indigenous unless they ally. I know I'm probably wrong about some bits but really, no race has ever come to an agreement, besides the BA bromance with the crons... I just don't get it.

Obvious troll is obvious

iproxtaco wrote:Or the Tau will die. The Tau try truly large scale attempts to sway parts of the Imperium, and they will be crushed.

Indeed, it's accepted the Tau will be crushedonce the Imperium decides it actually cares. As of now, the Imperium has many, quite bigger problems on its hands than the Tau Empire, so they continue to live...

For now.

DAWARBOSS wrote:Why are all races so unreasonable, I mean they have a freaking warp spewing out all kinds of daemons and gods and who knows what else, they've got swarms of bugs from another galaxy coming in and they've got killa plants with lots of dakka. I mean if the elder are so smart wouldn't they see the only way to survive is to ally, can't the imperium see that "we worship the emperor god" has gone too far, especially after that GK incident with the sisters of battle. The tau seem to be friendly enough, but they just keep taking more planets and kill all the indigenous unless they ally. I know I'm probably wrong about some bits but really, no race has ever come to an agreement, besides the BA bromance with the crons... I just don't get it.

Wheres the fun in lovey dovey peace and unity? I prefer my far future with all the grim darkness i can get . The Tau, are hypocrites though, just like everyone else. They harbor as much hate as the rest of the races in 40k, one of the Imperial Armor books had a Tau commander who HATES all humans because the Imperium assassinated his role model. Not to mention the mind controlling ethereals, the human sterilization and what not(although this was from Dow DC, so im not sure weather it can be applied).

Clearly you have never met the Reasonable Marines

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Reasonable_Marines (just a far warning, a few bits on the site are NSFW)

In the Future, there Is Only War.

Provided, of course, all other avenues of discourse have been explored and no reasonable settlements or compromises could be met. War is only expected to continue as long as the opposing side refuses to entertain negotiations, diplomatic discourses, otherwise refuses any non-violent means of sorting our mutual differences.

If such a time occurs that the opposing side is willing to listen to our diplomats, or sends their own representatives to discus terms, or otherwise reopens lines of communication, war will be suspended until agreeable terms have been met or such terms fall through.

If agreeable terms are met, war is officially ceased and peaceful co-existence begins contingent on the relevant treatise being adhered to by both sides.

If, at any time, a treaty is disputed, lines of communication are to be immediately opened and a diplomatic solution is to be sought with all relevant parties to be punished if a treaty committee decides there are parties to be punished.

If the opposing side refuses to cooperate, the treaty committee is allowed to recommend immediate trade embargos and other such measures to attempt compliance of the opposing side. If the opposing side once again resorts to violence whilst withdrawing communication then the committee is allowed to suggest the solution of war until the opposing side reopens lines of communication.

Think about how BORING this game would be without all the fighting. We would field our armies on the table, but instead of weapons, some would wear pink frilly dresses, and others would wear tuxedos, and they would out ballroom dance one another. Yea, I could see people cheering on Dash for being a master at a feather step into a heel turn