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What secondary do/would/should you use on your XV88s?

While you're not going to use the secondary all that often, it IS the cheapest way to get some plasma on the table...worth it?

Plasma costs doesn't it? and SMS are free.
SMS all the time, you want to be shooting your Railguns every turn.

While it is cheap plasma, to use it effectively with the Railguns (the Broadsides more important weapon), you need to buy a Multitracker so you can get both low AP shots off in one turn. There are not many times when using Plasma (with rapid fire) is better than a Twin Linked Railgun (remember you're BS3), and if your Broadside is close enough to use Rapid Fire, you're in trouble anyways.

Otherwise, it's better to invest those 10pts in an ASS system, so the Broadsides can be mobile.

synchronicity wrote:While it is cheap plasma, to use it effectively with the Railguns (the Broadsides more important weapon), you need to buy a Multitracker so you can get both low AP shots off in one turn. There are not many times when using Plasma (with rapid fire) is better than a Twin Linked Railgun (remember you're BS3), and if your Broadside is close enough to use Rapid Fire, you're in trouble anyways.

Otherwise, it's better to invest those 10pts in an ASS system, so the Broadsides can be mobile.

Well if I am "in trouble anyways" I might as well take as many Meqs as I can with me

A team of two broadsides with plasma and MT get

4 re-rollable plasma shots.

2 re-rollable railgun shots.

BS3 with re-roll =75% to hit.

average 2 insta-death railgun hits and 3 plasma hits.

that's average what, 4.5 ish kills? half a tack squad, make them take their morale test too! Plus you'll have probably opened fire before rapid fire range, so it's not so unlikely to kill them all.

Neither.

but for a Real answer: Plasma+MT.

It is the only way you can always fire your weapons.

If you have A.S.S. you can only fire the Railgun or the SMS. If you have MT you cannot fire either on the move.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Neither.

but for a Real answer: Plasma+MT.

It is the only way you can always fire your weapons.

If you have A.S.S. you can only fire the Railgun or the SMS. If you have MT you cannot fire either on the move.

Plasma cool...

There are 3 builds I use.

1) Plasma/MT
2) SMS/TA
3) SMS/ASS

I prefer the plasma, considering when you have 6-9 Broadsides you've got a 24 inch kill zone of everything except hordes. Gives you extra output against MCs/MeQ/Light transports, are very hard to get rid of (with shield drones) when buffered with drones/kroot/Piranha, and only cost 5pts more a piece than the other two variants. Completely dominant firepower is fun to watch, buhbye IG. Its also incredibly useful if you're in an area where 90% of armies are MeQ, meaning, everywhere.

The other ones do have uses, the TA is better against heavily Mechanized armies, and ASS is best if you have a DoW mission (sort of).

I will never put PRs on broadsides. Just did the mathhammer, its more effective for your points (against anything) to use Helios or Burning Eye...

So put SMS on them, and give the PRs to your crisis suits.

Good thing theres more to the game than Math...

You're saying taking a 62pt suit, with non-TL weapons, is better than a 5pt upgrade to a suit you're already taking, replacing a mediocre weapon people rarely use? I'd rather have Broadsides that have a job to do after the transports are popped, rather than watch their effectiveness drop like a rock when the tanks are gone (or if there never were any tanks). Don't get me wrong, I like Helios (Burning Eye are a joke and a waste of a slot), my HQ is often Helios or Fireknife. Plasma Broadsides/Deathrain combos are firing effectively the whole game though. The same cannot be said for Helios and Bladestorms.

I'll take experience and tactical usefullness over simple MathHammer any day

Creeping Dementia wrote:Good thing theres more to the game than Math...

You're saying taking a 62pt suit, with non-TL weapons, is better than a 5pt upgrade to a suit you're already taking

Yeah, pretty much (though it is actually a 10 pt. upgrade).

Creeping Dementia wrote:I'll take experience and tactical usefullness over simple MathHammer any day

[sarcasm] Ohlook!!! I had 1 grot get lucky and kill a marine, thus grots can pwn marines any day!! [/sarcasm]

No, Mathhammer is an integral part of 40k. People don't shoot AP3 weapons at people with 2+ saves, they shoot Ap3 weaponry at models with a 3+ save or worse.

Your broadsides effectiveness doesn't drop like a rock once tanks are gone. They can still go around insta-gibbing t5 models.

Actually, when you get the PR and MT for the broadsides, there effectiveness is actually dropping, against tanks. The MT takes up a valuable slot that could be used for a TA or A.S.S., both very valuable upgrades that increase the Broadsides ability to destroy tanks.


Also, don't be hating Burning Eye. Point for point, they are the best Crisis Suit configuration against TEQs (barring Centurion, which is only for your commander anyways...) Look at the link in my sig, it has a mathhammering of crisis suits.

The Bringer wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Good thing theres more to the game than Math...

You're saying taking a 62pt suit, with non-TL weapons, is better than a 5pt upgrade to a suit you're already taking

Yeah, pretty much (though it is actually a 10 pt. upgrade).

Creeping Dementia wrote:I'll take experience and tactical usefullness over simple MathHammer any day

[sarcasm] Ohlook!!! I had 1 grot get lucky and kill a marine, thus grots can pwn marines any day!! [/sarcasm]

No, Mathhammer is an integral part of 40k. People don't shoot AP3 weapons at people with 2+ saves, they shoot Ap3 weaponry at models with a 3+ save or worse.

Your broadsides effectiveness doesn't drop like a rock once tanks are gone. They can still go around insta-gibbing t5 models.

Actually, when you get the PR and MT for the broadsides, there effectiveness is actually dropping, against tanks. The MT takes up a valuable slot that could be used for a TA or A.S.S., both very valuable upgrades that increase the Broadsides ability to destroy tanks.


Also, don't be hating Burning Eye. Point for point, they are the best Crisis Suit configuration against TEQs (barring Centurion, which is only for your commander anyways...) Look at the link in my sig, it has a mathhammering of crisis suits.

Yes, but Burning eye still has some of the worst efficiency for killing TEQs, because it is hella expensive.

They CAN instagib t5 models, but that is two shots with 75% chance to hit with a team of two, and two shots vs. infantry w/o template/pie plate=not so good.

Creeping Dementia wrote:Good thing theres more to the game than Math...

You're saying taking a 62pt suit, with non-TL weapons, is better than a 5pt upgrade to a suit you're already taking, replacing a mediocre weapon people rarely use? I'd rather have Broadsides that have a job to do after the transports are popped, rather than watch their effectiveness drop like a rock when the tanks are gone (or if there never were any tanks). Don't get me wrong, I like Helios (Burning Eye are a joke and a waste of a slot), my HQ is often Helios or Fireknife. Plasma Broadsides/Deathrain combos are firing effectively the whole game though. The same cannot be said for Helios and Bladestorms.

I'll take experience and tactical usefullness over simple MathHammer any day

Funny how you used tactical usefulness as your reasoning. Your tactics here are flawed. Adding all those upgrades to your broadsides will just make them a massive point sink and take away points from the rest of your army, thats why you put them on crisis suits. You dont put plasma on your BS because they cant move and shoot, your PR should already be on your crisis suits b/c they can. What do you think your opponent is gonna go for after you use all those upgrades on your BS's? they totally souped up mega BS's? ya now there goes all your fire power, gone in one unit. Its cheaper and more effective to put them on crisis suits, split up your enemies army

darkcloud92 wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Good thing theres more to the game than Math...

You're saying taking a 62pt suit, with non-TL weapons, is better than a 5pt upgrade to a suit you're already taking, replacing a mediocre weapon people rarely use? I'd rather have Broadsides that have a job to do after the transports are popped, rather than watch their effectiveness drop like a rock when the tanks are gone (or if there never were any tanks). Don't get me wrong, I like Helios (Burning Eye are a joke and a waste of a slot), my HQ is often Helios or Fireknife. Plasma Broadsides/Deathrain combos are firing effectively the whole game though. The same cannot be said for Helios and Bladestorms.

I'll take experience and tactical usefullness over simple MathHammer any day

Funny how you used tactical usefulness as your reasoning. Your tactics here are flawed. Adding all those upgrades to your broadsides will just make them a massive point sink and take away points from the rest of your army, thats why you put them on crisis suits. You dont put plasma on your BS because they cant move and shoot, your PR should already be on your crisis suits b/c they can. What do you think your opponent is gonna go for after you use all those upgrades on your BS's? they totally souped up mega BS's? ya now there goes all your fire power, gone in one unit. Its cheaper and more effective to put them on crisis suits, split up your enemies army

The Plas/MT setup costs 5 points more per model than the ASS or TA setup does. Where is this 'massive point sink' you're talking about?

Yes, you do lose mobility, but you also lose mobility with TA, and even with ASS you are moving but its incredibly slow. Plas on Broadsides also aren't reliant on Markers like Elite Crisis are, a plus when all your opponents know to always kill Pathfinders first.

So... plasma rifle broadsides... terrible use of points. Multitracker... just as bad.

Targeting Array or Adv.S.S.

You also have to take into account how often your Broadsides are actually close enough to use the plasma rifles.

I don't know about Creeping Dementia, but my 'sides are normally in the backfield throwing Railgun slag, not up next to my Crisis Suits. IMO if the enemy troops are close enough for you to shoot your Plasma Rifles, they're too close for comfort. If I feel it's safe, I'll get close enough to fire the SMS.

There's also the fact that SMS don't need LOS...overall, I feel that the missiles are the smarter and safer choice...but to each his own

im2randomghgh wrote:Well if I am "in trouble anyways" I might as well take as many Meqs as I can with me

A team of two broadsides with plasma and MT get

4 re-rollable plasma shots.

2 re-rollable railgun shots.

BS3 with re-roll =75% to hit.

average 2 insta-death railgun hits and 3 plasma hits.

that's average what, 4.5 ish kills? half a tack squad, make them take their morale test too! Plus you'll have probably opened fire before rapid fire range, so it's not so unlikely to kill them all.

Wow congratulations, you just killed 4.5 marines. This data is skewed. It assumes that they are within 12" (and you can't move and shoot). If you have marines within 12" of your broadsides, you are probably already loosing. Let me know how that works out for you. Plus 4 str5>1 str6 at 24".

Not to mention the fact that the SMS can fire THROUGH terrain. So if the marines are hanging out behind a rock close to your broadsides, good luck trying to shoot them with your plasma rifles. I'm going to fire 4 shots at them.

The other thing Dementia said was the the Plas/MT setup costs 5 points per model. Ok thats not a lot. But say we are playing 1850. I have 2 units of 3 suits then. Thats 30 points. There is your massive points sink.


Why do you need to replace a perfectly good free weapon, with something that has marginally better performance (and only within certain parameters) that you have to pay for? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Oh and why does the poll have an option for "neither (conversion)". What the Hell is that suppoosed to mean?

Always SMS...save the Plasma for Crisis suits

PraetorDave wrote:Oh and why does the poll have an option for "neither (conversion)". What the Hell is that suppoosed to mean?

I was wondering that myself...

mega_bassist wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:Oh and why does the poll have an option for "neither (conversion)". What the Hell is that suppoosed to mean?

I was wondering that myself...

At my FLGS everyone tricks out there BS and gives them massive upgrades...like one of them has the Eldar D-cannons or whatever. We pimp them out, make them as powerful as GDs, and as long as the points costs make sense, we use them. I know, what you're thinking, and the answer is yes, my parents DID drop me on my head as a child.

I added it in case anyone else had done some custom models. I know I am probably the only person at my FLGS w/o converted XV88s, simply because I suck at convo ().

Even non-Tau players buy the broadsides here and alter them...some even use Nid/Daemon parts on them, which looks wholly odd but surprisingly cool.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But yeah, I will probably go for the SMS then. Simply because TL plasma on an XV8 costs 30 i.e. 3x the cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cottonjaw wrote:So... plasma rifle broadsides... terrible use of points. Multitracker... just as bad.

Targeting Array or Adv.S.S.

MT is bad on them? I thought that it would make it pretty much 100% sure that you would smash any vehicles within range, whereas there is a decent enough chance of failure with JUST RG and/or SMS.

That is what I have noticed in my experience anyways, still not sure if I could be getting more out of TA/Adv.S.S. though, as I have never tried them...