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Hi everyone,
Is it just me or do thunder hammers suck ? I mean they're power fist but make models hit strike at initiative 1. I mean granted, they do come with storm shields, which are quite good as they increase your inv save from 5+ to 3+, but I mean you may as well have power fists ! Thunder hammers are only good against monstrous creatures+ things immune to instant death, but otherwise they're like power fists. Maybe there's something I'm missing out, (but if there is, please comment) but thunder hammers really seem to be a terrible choice. Please comment with your opinions below.
Thanks,
Scorax001 (Mike)

If you have a choice between them then yeah PF is usually better because it is cheaper.
However TH+SS termies are taken because they are tough (ish) to kill when faced with high S low AP weaponry.
You don't get a choice and there isn't a point increase so why not.

My Monstrous Creatures hate seeing Thunderhammers across the board from them. I'd rather face fists anyday.

You're also forgetting about their effect on vehicles. They're not so good as to be a no-brainer, but you've got a pretty long uphill slog if you're going to try and lay out and argument that they 'suck.'

Would you rather have a stormbolter or be nigh-unkillable? Your choice man.

They are designed for exactly what you said, making units be able to get an advantage vs. Monstrous Creatures or other IC's in CC.

Example I've got a Wolf Guard in a unit w/ a Thunder Hammer in CC with Mephiston, or a Demon Prince, first round they kill 4 Marines, before I even get to strike. I do 1 wounds to him with the Thunder Hammer, and manage to not break in CC.

Next round my regular marines actually get attack, before the DP or Meph, before they are wiped out due to Int differences, and the TH goes at the same time as the aforementioned models. Thunderhammers are a good thing it doesn't mean I'll take them all the time over a PF but they are far from useless.

I also don't see why "thunder hammers suck!" when they're 90% the same thing as powerfists, which emphatically do not suck.

Scorax001 wrote:Hi everyone,
Is it just me or do thunder hammers suck ? I mean they're power fist but make models hit strike at initiative 1. I mean granted, they do come with storm shields, which are quite good as they increase your inv save from 5+ to 3+, but I mean you may as well have power fists !

Power fist make you strike at initiative 1 too. Hammers are just better powerfists. Unless you mean power claws instead.

Arschbombe wrote:

Scorax001 wrote:Hi everyone,
Is it just me or do thunder hammers suck ? I mean they're power fist but make models hit strike at initiative 1. I mean granted, they do come with storm shields, which are quite good as they increase your inv save from 5+ to 3+, but I mean you may as well have power fists !

Power fist make you strike at initiative 1 too.

The bearer, yes. He's talking about the secondary power where hammers cause opponents wounded but not killed to strike at I1 in the next round.

I run with hestan and he make my th master craft I love re rolled misses so that make th worth it

Basically the draw backs are exactly the same as the drawbacks of powerfists. Putting aside TH/SS terminators, thunderhammers are generally marginally more expensive than a powerfist.

I would say that the extra effects over a powerfist are worth it, unless you are strapped for points.


From a modeling point, my dream is to build a double hammer space marine captain. And he will still be table legal! Not that great, but he looks so cool...

Looks like this needs some clearing up - I think the OP's basic argument is "why would you take TH for +5-10pts when you could take a PF instead?"

SB/PF Termie is mediocre at shooting and mediocre at CC, especially when survival becomes an issue. TH/SS Termies forego the mediocre shooting for more durability, meaning they'll actually survive long enough to use that I1, S8 power weapon.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Looks like this needs some clearing up - I think the OP's basic argument is "why would you take TH for +5-10pts when you could take a PF instead?"

He mentions storm shields a couple times so I think he does mean Terminators. Also he seems to have missed the detail that power fists are at I1 as well.

For marines, THs are not amazingly better than PFs on units with an option between the two. I do think assault terms are significantly better than shooty termies.

If orks got a TH equivalent I'd probably take it over the klaw, though.

thunder hammers don't suck. if i could take them on my CSM termies i'd do it in a heartbeat.

glad we had this talk.

I'd love my meganobs to use a shield and a hammer to... but i find it unlikely ... mega armor is unorky enough... throw in a shield and the rest of the boyz would have no respect for the ork saying he is to human

To the OP, lets just make all the cool weapons strike on high initiatives, have them be absolutely free, and make the game a rock-paper-scissors based system...

Nothing cool comes with out a price. Deal with it.

Scorax001 wrote:Hi everyone,
I mean granted, they do come with storm shields, which are quite good as they increase your inv save from 5+ to 3+, but I mean you may as well have power fists !

That statement doesnt make all that much sense unless you are trying to say you would rather have a regular termy with PF SB instead of a THSS termie. Is that what you are trying to say?

Scorax001 wrote: but otherwise they're like power fists

This statement doesn't make all the much sense unless you think powerfists aren't that good. Do you think powerfists aren't good?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:To the OP, lets just make all the cool weapons strike on high initiatives, have them be absolutely free, and make the game a rock-paper-scissors based system...

Nothing cool comes with out a price. Deal with it.

QFT.
To OP I think he's talking about Captains and the like to the Terminators. I mean if you think about it if they just had a thunderhammer I would take the PF one everytime. But since they have a SS its them. Depending on if your doing a firing line or not.

As an aside, why do people use int as a shortcut to initiative? >.<

First 3 letters and is more recognisable than just I...

That's not the first three letters.

The first three would be Ini, not Int.

The fact that Dakka seems to encourage this only annoys me even more.

You can't dakka dictionary "I" but you can int

You can also dakka dictionary Ini, which is the CORRECT SPELLING.

*starts to spaz out, and eventually turns into godzilla*

purplefood wrote:First 3 letters

That would be InI, not InT.

Platuan4th wrote:

purplefood wrote:First 3 letters

That would be InI, not InT.

Yeah i get it thanks.
First 3 letter that people like me think of

A little derailing (but the thread kinda lacks content anyway...) But I have to agree with Melissia, it's kinda annoying, especially since int is normally used as abbreviation to intelligence in RPGs, which I am a player of.

Scorax001 wrote:Hi everyone,
Is it just me or do thunder hammers suck ?

No, Thunder Hammers 'hammer', I think you may be confused with a Thunder Suction Pump



Trolololo....

Thunderhammers DO suck...Unless you're fighting MCs, or vehicles, or anything other than what powerfists ID or AV14 rear ...So, they really don't suck.

Dragging a trygon from "Initiative: Whoop your butt" to "Initiative:Suck" is a big deal.
Giving an automatic shaken result to that plasmagun filled chimera, so even if you don't break the transport they can either skip shooting or disembark and get mulched? Also a big deal.

That said, I take thunderhammers because if I don't, my ATs don't get stormshields. If I could take even one chainfist in an assault terminator squad though, just one....

For most purposes though, yeah. I would pay the extra (generally) 5 points to upgrade from a powerfist to a thunderhammer or chainfist. The latter options always offer advantages worth a lot more than 5 points.