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HQ
Baron Sathonix

Elite
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters // Venom with 2nd SC
4 Trueborn - 4 Blasters // Venom with 2nd SC

Troops
10 Kabalite Warriors - Dark Lance // Raider with Flickerfields
10 Kabalite Warriors - Dark Lance // Raider with Flickerfields
10 Kabalite Warriors - Dark Lance // Raider with Flickerfields

Heavy
Ravager
Ravager

1216pts total, 284pts to work with.

My initial thought was Reavers, but then i realized i have enough AT in there already, considering the fact that i have absolutely NO melee i have two options:

Upgrade the Mech and add a super Harlequim unit. (Shadowseer, Flip Belt and Stealth looks absolutely awesome)
or
Get one or two units of Beastmasters.

Why Harlequims? The super defensive combo of Shadowseer+Baron makes them the perfect bodyguards of anything trying to come near my shooty troops. The problem: if they don't do much damage in their initiative step they'll all die horribly (only a 5++ with T3 is bitter than life itself)

Why Beastmasters? A lot of wounds and good saves, many attacks, rending and all that jazz. The problem: Ld8 on a melee unit? Seems like most people forget how Ld is important, oh and they can be shot down to bits and get owned by S6 or more

Why are you taking Baron over Duke?
Why are you taking 10 warriors with lances and no blasters?

Personally, I would take duke in a venom with some trueborn w/ cannons for strong anti-infantry. Or you can go with the more versatile 10 warriors with blaster and cannon unless your intention is to just drop the warriors off in cover and leave them there the whole game?

I also would fill out the rest with reavers as they can be used to screen your raiders. They are very versatile. 6 w/ 2 heat lances would be best as you'd be surprised how ineffective lances can be when you really need to drop that AV14 tank.

If nothing else, then take a unit of hellions with helliarch to put with baron.

The baron gives alpha strike lists a +1 for first turn roll offs, a major advantage, you know, if you want to strike first. Always take 3 ravagers, you need them, you want them, they want to have your babies. It's a win win. I would say drop the warriors down to 5 men units with blaster in a venom with dual cannons. Much less expensive and equally, if not more so, effective. Reavers aren't a bad choice. But also consider a 5 man scourge unit with 2 haywire blasters, which is less expensive by a little and gives you a place to stick the baron. Put them in some cover and they get 3+ cover saves due to his stealth, making them pretty resilient. Just some thoughts.

Why Baron over Duke? I rather have a good HQ that fits my list than a bad HQ that doens't belong.

Why Darklances? This is a sit and shoot list, there is no space for small squads that die the turn they're spotted by Autocannons.

A third Ravager? Eh, er, no. Mostly because i don't have a third yet, that's why i filled the list with Dark Lances, to compensate.

consider this list now:

HQ
Baron Sathonix

Elite
3 Trueborn - 2 DLs // Venom with 2nd SC and NS
3 Trueborn - 2 DLs // Venom with 2nd SC and NS

Troops
10 Warriors - 1 DL // Raider with Flickerfield
10 Warriors - 1 DL // Raider with Flickerfield
10 Warriors - 1 DL // Raider with Flickerfield

Fast
2 Beastmasters - 5 Khymerae, 2 Razorwings
2 Beastmasters - 4 Khymerae, 2 Razorwings
1 Beastmaster with Agonizer - 1 Clawed Fiend

Heavy
Ravager with NS
Ravager with NS

Goals:

HQ - First turn enabler, Stealth giver, cheap
Elites - 2 DLs and 2 SCs, doom of Terminators/Obliterators/Longfangs
Troops - Cover givers for Ravagers, 2 DLs at distance and a lot of Rapid Fire splintery to boot.
Fast Attack - 2 units guard the Elites or flanks, one unit guard the center.
Heavy - Ravagers already have cover, so NS for psychological warfare

Baron doesnt fit your army, neither do those beast flocks. beasts are at their best when you have a bunch of them in a mass for wound allocation, clawed fiends are also not very good, since the average toughness in the group will always be 3. Load up on flocks and 5 khyms for invul saves, thatll give you the best bang for your buck. if youore going to take the baron, put him with a big squad of beasts as a wound soak. the duke wouldnt bad bad tho. a squad of trueborn with 2 cannons and some carbines in a venom with the duke will murder. venoms kill far more than a single dark lance. Besides, the 5man squad of warriors are so cheap where moving 12" to disembark and fire the 18" blaster, its about hte same range as a DL. 12" move, 2" deploy, 18" range. plus, getting 6 troops for 680 points or whatever it is is awesome. even if you trim it down. the one squad of beasts will give you plenty of CC. also, the duke would let you deepstrike your units in case you didnt get first turn

Untoldstory:Yes Venoms kill far more then darklances IF you have taken down your opponents transport thats what you have darklances for.. And you need to pick up the rulebock and read about different toughness in units, you use the majority and if it is 50/50 the you use the highest..

Beastmasters have poor LD

Should i trade the NS on the Venoms for Grisly Trophies on both the Venoms and Ravagers that the Beasts will be guarding?

Another go at:

1500

Baron

4 Trueborns - 4 Blasters // Venom w/ 2nd SC
4 Trueborns - 4 Blasters // Venom w/ 2nd SC

20 Warriors - 2 SCs
5 Warriors - Blaster // Raider w/ FF
5 Warriors - Blaster // Raider w/ FF
5 Warriors - Blaster // Raider w/ FF

4 Beastmasters - 10 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager w/ FF
Ravager w/ FF

Baron keeps jumpiing from Beastpack to Foot warriors as it suits me.
Foot Warriors and Beasts give cover to one another (the units are big enough to do that)
9 DarkLances
11 Blasters
6 SCs

20 Warriors tagging along the Beasts can be considered a Deathstar? I dunno..

Nah 20 foot warriors are joke, the punchline is a pie plate with AP5. If you ever take max warriors, ever, like when someone is holding a gun to your head, take a webway portal and drop really far up the field, in cover.

Tavitin:

You can go through a lot of tweaking to get to the right answer, or you can just click the DE guide in my signature, click the kabal link in there and copy what you see. You're getting there bit by bit - just shortcut to the end now.

Dashofpepper wrote:Tavitin:

You can go through a lot of tweaking to get to the right answer, or you can just click the DE guide in my signature, click the kabal link in there and copy what you see. You're getting there bit by bit - just shortcut to the end now.

The intention is getting to that with the models i own right now, which is:

2 converted venoms
3 raiders
2 ravagers

And that was all i could come up with, having only those skimmers. The foot soldiers are kinda odd, but hey they will be moving 6" and shooting 36" every turn, they are not Venoms and by that i mean they are not as fragile as an AV10 open topped vehicle.

@Eyclonus
i've playtested the 20 footdar twice and both times they performed better than expected. Do you think i'm afraid of AP5? they'll have cover 3+ for those and the beasts have a 4++ against anything.

Like i said, the 20man were playtested by me. If they don't look good on paper, that's fine because on the field they performed nicely. Have anyone tried that Warrior setup? I mean, really? The only ones that actually fielded them came to the same conclusion i did, which is, pure anti-infantry that needs survivability, either with a Haemonculus for FNP or the Baron for the Stealth. In this case we have both the Baron AND Beasts for bubblewrap. The beasts are there, too, for the timed assault (probably on the third turn).

This army is very vulnerable to Flamers due to foot soldiers, Beasts and Trueblasters. So vehicles carrying flamers are high priority. The only thing i'm truly afraid using this list are suicidal Tzench Flamers.

Skurk3n wrote:Untoldstory:Yes Venoms kill far more then darklances IF you have taken down your opponents transport thats what you have darklances for.. And you need to pick up the rulebock and read about different toughness in units, you use the majority and if it is 50/50 the you use the highest..

no, i dont need to read the rule book. i was referring to mass squads of beasts. 1 beastmaster and clawed fiend isnt a unit, its a free kill point(you really dont think so? i deal 2 wounds, kill the beast master, and then tank shock the clawed fiend off the table.). if you take a clawed fiend in a larger squad of beasts, then yes, you do lose its t5.

And that was all i could come up with, having only those skimmers. The foot soldiers are kinda odd, but hey they will be moving 6" and shooting 36" every turn, they are not Venoms and by that i mean they are not as fragile as an AV10 open topped vehicle.

@Eyclonus
i've playtested the 20 footdar twice and both times they performed better than expected. Do you think i'm afraid of AP5? they'll have cover 3+ for those and the beasts have a 4++ against anything.

Well then i see why you found them useful. dark lances are heavy weapons, you cant move and shoot them. While im sure the unit will kill its fair share of models, you can kill far more models while spending far less points on other unit makeups. its fine if they were successful, but for 156 points you can take a squad of 5 khyms and 4 flocks, which would net you a far higher return.

This army is very vulnerable to Flamers due to foot soldiers, Beasts and Trueblasters. So vehicles carrying flamers are high priority. The only thing i'm truly afraid using this list are suicidal Tzench Flamers.

Beast squads are extremely resilient to flamer weapons unless its a str 6 flamer, in which case...yea anything would die to that, they arnt death stars after all. i love when my opponents dedicate heavy flamers to beasts. you deal 5 wounds? great thats 4 wounds on a flock and a BM dies, no big deal.

Raiders arnt useless, however venoms are pound for pound better. and as to needing darklances, wherever you are fielding lance weapons, you can get them infinitely cheaper on ravagers.

One thing i would suggest is a trueborn squad in venom with 2 splinter cannons and 3 models. its a 121 point squad that gets 4 splinter cannons. you dont need to spend almost 200 points for 2 cannons, thats so ridiculous

**damn, i keep posting on my friends account, this is untoldstory**