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After having played a few games with Dread Knights in my list, I have to say that I'm really not impressed. T6 and a 5+ invulnerable save make them very easy to kill by anything except the weakest close combat units. There other big problem is that their max range is 24" which means they're guaranteed to get into close combat almost every game. By the time you give them two cannons and a teleporter, they're running you almost 300 points.

So Dread Knights really don't seem like they're worth the points, ever, since there are so many units in the GK army that do what they can do much better. I can have two and a half dual auto cannon dreads for about the same points and they'll be shooting effectively the whole game. 300 points of terminators is 12 S5 stormbolter shots and 4 S7 Psycannon shots (instead of the blast which the DK gives). 300 points of PAGK's is upwards of 25 S5 Storm bolter shots as well as heavy weapons. In CC, terminators or PAGK's will both get 20+ S5+ instakill power weapon attacks in cc while the DK gets a measly 5 when charging.

So almost 300 points of anything else in a DK list is a better option. But I have purchased three of these great (though needing modifications to not look silly) models and would like to actually use them without being seriously hampered.

Any recommendations for strategies that make them truly useful on the table? I like my models and have gotten a lot of compliments on them. I would like to keep using them, but don't want to hate playing GK's.

Thanks...

IMHO its to costly for what it is capable of and as you pointed out quite well there are much better options

for the 300 point i would go with a troop chioce termi squad with Thawn scoring unit, and Thawn can ressurect

You run the dreadnight with just a teleporter as a cc flygrant/daemon prince with wings wannabe. The weapons just aren't worth their points. Dunno if Shunt Punch that involves using the shunt move in the scout move is even legal have to wait for the GK FAQ but that might make them worth running for first turn assaults.

The shunt punch is perhaps the most devestaing thing you can do with them and i shudder to image what three of those things coming across the board first turn and assaulting me would do.

While they lack surviablity you can use them like suicide units, execept they would be massive fire magnests that will attract a lot of fire and units for atleast a turn so your other units can get close and do damage.

In any case you really dont wanna spend many points on them.

But I don't play GK so this is all from my experince playing on a team with them and against them. so there it is take or leave it.

I don't own any but did play about 6 games with proxies to see if I liked them. My findings are that, built right, Dreadknights are very good but just don't fit in my style of playing.

The teleporter is basically a requirement to get any use out of them. They really, really need the speed boost in order to reach the enemy alive, so consider that part of their base cost essentially.

After that I ended up running mine with heavy incinerators and nothing else. I found the hammer useful occasionally but not often enough to justify the extra cost. The long range flame template however, will basically always have a good target, and you can usually position it to cause the maximum damage possible. That weapon is a real beast and probably did more work than the cc attacks of the dreadknight ever could.

Their major flaw, as I see it, is being 1st turn wonders. You build the right list around dreadknights and a GM and get 1st turn, and I will give you better than 70% odds of winning vs most other armies. 1st turn assaulting dreadknights are scary as hell for the vast majority of armies. But that requires 1st turn to mean anything.

You get second turn with a pile of dreadknights, and I think you'll be lucky if they have more than half their wounds (or less) by the time they reach the enemy. These guys are just giant targets who's value goes down drastically the long they stay out of close combat.

Some important things I see about them:

They have the same target priority as vehicles. That is, your opponent will fire their high strength, (usually low AP) weapons at them, just like they would shoot at tanks. So in a mech list, they count as target saturation.

One of the biggest problem for GKs is hordes, unless you're spamming purifiers. With Shunt and at least the Heavy Incinerator (maybe the cannon, too), you can pop behind something that's trying to hide and flame the crap out of it. (I believe this was quite sucessful against Ork Lootas in a batrep recently)

No matter what, they're a threat to the opponent, and can't exactly be ignored. Land Raiders are huge threats. . . until their cargo is released. Then they're ignorable. Not so with DKs, because they have threat range and can handle most units that aren't well-geared against them.

Grand Masters can make them scoring, making them even less ignorable.

My typical loadout would probably just be the teleporter and the Heavy Incinerator. 230 points, I think? Again, since they go best by helping with vehicle-like target saturation, they'd probably go well in a Mech list.

:-) Yes, I use one with the Teleporter and Heavy Incinerator... Mine has been really good for me, but we're playing a smaller league... Jump Pack move, the template to hit important targets hiding in cover, but mostly just the really big base crashing into HtH... Vehicles, Heavy Infantry, Wolf Cav, whatever...

the best way to run dreadknights is to give them the Heavy Incinerator and Teliporter.


other then that they get too expensive.

Grey Templar wrote:the best way to run dreadknights is to give them the Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter.


other then that they get too expensive.

This.

I agree with the above.

With the teleporter you have a VERY fast and very large model. On the first turn (or during your scout move maybe) you put the thing right in the enemy deployment zone. This will cause them to be afraid of it, and spend a lot of effort killing it, while the rest of your moves up. With the 5++ save, it can take a lot of fire before it goes away.

The heavy incinerator is a great weapon, or rather the other two are pretty bad weapons. The Heavy Psycannon is Worse against tanks than a regular psycannon, against hordes it scatters. The Gatling Psylencer simply does not deal enough damage.

The incinerator wounds most infantry on a 2+ and with AP4 and ignores cover and ignores T3 FNP, there is a lot of infantry that will fear the flames and rightly so. Most DE infantry, Tau, Orks, Nids. With the 12" range it gives you a lot of freedom to place the template in a place where you can hit more models with it as well.

Grey Templar wrote:the best way to run dreadknights is to give them the Heavy Incinerator and Teliporter.


other then that they get too expensive.

I think there are only 3 valid DK builds.

1) Teleporter and heavy incinerator for reasons previously started. The unit is full of awesomesauce, but it's very expensive and can easily be called overpriced.

2) Nothing but a heavy incinerator: Deep strike the DK, potentially very early in the game by using psychic communion, or deploy it in the center of the board and walk down the middle. It's only a few points more expensive than a hellhound, it's a good unit in CC, and the threat range of an 18" (6" move +12") + template is at least 3/4 of the threat range of a teleporting DK (12" move +12") + template. All of that for 2/3 the cost of a teleporting + heavy incinerator DK

3) Nakid: Nakid DKs are amazingly inexpensive for what they do. Compare them in point costs to a Carnifax, CSM deamon prince, or chaos deamon deamon prince. The lack of speed can be compensated for by deepstrike or outflanking if the list includes a GM.

Personally I say go with nothing but a heavy incinerator. 75% of the flame thrower threat range is a worthy sacrifice to be 2/3 the cost

If you consider how you use them in your army as a whole, i'm sure you will find them to be points well spent. A DK with a teleporter, heavy incinerator, and great sword is a great distraction and tarpit unit. If you absolutely need to cover the advance of the rest of your forces, you teleport that thing into the enemy's lines and have it go to town for a turn or two. You're absolutely right, they usually don't make their points back, but if you manage to win the game because your dreadknight tied up enemy shooting for a few crucial rounds while the rest of your army was free to do what they pleased, then those points were well spent.

The DK is sort of like taking out an insurance policy, you pay the points to protect the rest of your investment.

Poor analogy I know, but I believe that DKs are worth it even if they don't make there points back.

Compare to their cousins
Eldar have wraithlord
DE have Cronos and Talos
both are tougher but slower. A little cheaper but no 2+ or 5++. They are not great in CC or shooting and are generally not worth the points

Or compare them to greater daemons. Except in the 1v1 match which they will win you have daemons having a much nastier CC side but with less shooting. They get summoned into the game so they dotn get shot to hell.

Nids big stuff tends to be heavier and have a different place in the army.

I dont think they are all that different but yeah, those large model thigns kinda suck these days. Its the state of the game nothign to do with GK or not.

If I'm going to field them, I like to take them naked and use a Librarian with The Summoning and/or a teleport homer to get them stuck in. The personal teleporter is way too many points, I like Heavy Psycannons and will take them if I have extra points.

I field one with a Heavy Psycannon and Heavy Incinerator for 200 (205?) points. Its great at mowing down and obliterating large mobs of enemy infantry, if they have an armour save of 4+ or worse, they are gone. And rending helps against MEQs out of cover.

It has no mobility, but it moves up with my army and keeps enemies from firing their AT at my far more combat effective infantry.

By buying zero upgrades, not even the teleporter.

For 130 points, they're insanely good.

Convert dreadknight into a psyrifleman dreadnought (psybolt 2 tl auto cannon dreadnought)

Grey Knights already decimate hordes with all those storm bolter shots and cleansing flames from purifiers no need to take Dreadknights with incinerators.

Dreadknight with a teleporter if your playing shunt punch other wise just take a psyrifleman dreadnought.

For me 2-3 Dreadkknight who get the Scout rule are quite awsome with the Teleporter if they alphastrike into the enemys Heavy Suppurt such as Tanks and so on. They only cost 205 Points and can be realy devastating for Tanks

Avariel wrote:Convert dreadknight into a psyrifleman dreadnought (psybolt 2 tl auto cannon dreadnought)

Grey Knights already decimate hordes with all those storm bolter shots and cleansing flames from purifiers no need to take Dreadknights with incinerators.

Dreadknight with a teleporter if your playing shunt punch other wise just take a psyrifleman dreadnought.

I've already had a bunch of people tell me they wouldn't accept it as a psyrifleman. I find it very annoying that their new model sucks and the model they've had around for years is a thousand times better. I wish the people I play with would allow it as a psirifleman, but they won't so I either make my models collect dust or take a handicap...

I'm on the fence right now. i'm looking at probably picking up 2 of them for my GK's but mostly for use I think in my Draigo army. The way's I'm currently thinking of running them:

-Teleporter/Gatling Psilencer/Gatling Psilencer
-Teleporter/Heavy Incinerator/Heavy Incinerator
-Dual Heavy Incinerator

Basically they are additional horde clearance while at the same time nasty against things like TWC which would threaten my Pallies. Also it means the same weapons need to be used on everything as it's all 2+ which increases their life spans.

I'm honestly suprised people dont think 24 St4 shots is worth it at BS4. Though the flamers will normally net you more wounds, just less range.

And here I thought a psyrifleman was a dreadknight with dual heavy psycannons.

And wow, a teleporter on a dreadknight costs more than wings on a demon prince (in the demon codex anyway).

Are the DK's useless without teleporters? If so why make teleporters so expensive?

Hulksmash wrote:I'm on the fence right now. i'm looking at probably picking up 2 of them for my GK's but mostly for use I think in my Draigo army. The way's I'm currently thinking of running them:

-Teleporter/Gatling Psilencer/Gatling Psilencer
-Teleporter/Heavy Incinerator/Heavy Incinerator
-Dual Heavy Incinerator

Basically they are additional horde clearance while at the same time nasty against things like TWC which would threaten my Pallies. Also it means the same weapons need to be used on everything as it's all 2+ which increases their life spans.

I'm honestly suprised people dont think 24 St4 shots is worth it at BS4. Though the flamers will normally net you more wounds, just less range.

They can't repeat weapons only one of each kind can be bought for it. Yet another reason why they suck.

Also, for the points, you will always be able to get more S5 shots from PAGK's or TAGK's with psybolt ammo. They can also carry psycannons that aren't garbage like the heavy one on the DK.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:I'm on the fence right now. i'm looking at probably picking up 2 of them for my GK's but mostly for use I think in my Draigo army. The way's I'm currently thinking of running them:

-Teleporter/Gatling Psilencer/Gatling Psilencer
-Teleporter/Heavy Incinerator/Heavy Incinerator
-Dual Heavy Incinerator

Basically they are additional horde clearance while at the same time nasty against things like TWC which would threaten my Pallies. Also it means the same weapons need to be used on everything as it's all 2+ which increases their life spans.

I'm honestly suprised people dont think 24 St4 shots is worth it at BS4. Though the flamers will normally net you more wounds, just less range.

They can't repeat weapons only one of each kind can be bought for it. Yet another reason why they suck.

Also, for the points, you will always be able to get more S5 shots from PAGK's or TAGK's with psybolt ammo. They can also carry psycannons that aren't garbage like the heavy one on the DK.

Wow. I thought DK's were the new hotness.

If a Dreadknight could take dual heavy flamers, I would invest in them.

But how do you know they can't take 2 of the same weapons. I thought the entry said "Choose up to two weapons from this list."

(each weapon can be selected only once)

AAACCCKKK!

Didn't even notice. Alrighty, I'm on the single Heavy Incinerator as the only worthwhile weapon...

Not sure if I want them now or not....Wanted to take advantage of their MC ability to fire 2 weapons

Hulksmash wrote:AAACCCKKK!

Didn't even notice. Alrighty, I'm on the single Heavy Incinerator as the only worthwhile weapon...

Not sure if I want them now or not....Wanted to take advantage of their MC ability to fire 2 weapons

Don't make the same misake I did and buy three. If you like the model build one and have fun with it. If you just want to play the game, ignore it and use other far more effective units.

2 of them will still fit extremely well with my Draigo Wing army. I'm just sad I won't be able to make people cry w/dual weaponry. Plus it just looks cooler.

I've used them to pretty good results. I use them to shunt up and get in my opponent face. If I'm fielding one, it will eventually die, but it gives me a turn or two to advance my PAGKs into psycannon range without being molested as he enemy unloads all of its shooting into the thing.
I've found if I use two, then the enemy doesn't have enough firepower to bring them both down. They are very resilient to punishment. If they are unloading all of their AP1/2 weaponry at the dreadknight then it's not coming at your rhinos, razorbacks, or dreads.
Anything not AP1/2 will most likely bounce off your T6 2+ armor save.