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Not sure where to put this....

Anybody else notice that GKT's have grenades standard now?!?!?!?!? Freakin' awesome and WTF at the same time. Well played GW. Taking this a little further, when is the FAQ to give all loyal Marine Dex's Termies grenades as well?

So...how would a terminator (non-paladin army) fare these days?

Mordrak + 5 Termies
4x 5 Termies
3x Dreadknights
(Psycannons spread all around)

Kinda a "pseudo" Deathwing, although the only reason I brought Mordrak is he seems nifty, I really want the Grand Strategy for some scoring Dreadknight love... I'm also trying to decide if I should find a way to fit a dread or two in there as well for more target saturation and valuable shooting.

without storm shields I dont think they will fare well at all. a 5++ to ap2 weapons just doesnt cut it the way many armies bring ap2 to the table these days.

Overall I think its the same as it ever way. You can play that army but certain popular builds are going to crush you in a few turns consistently. Other popular armies are going to be a good matchup.

All I have to say is, with no personal transports you should give all your DKs jump packs so that they and Mordrak can tie up the majority of the enemy army while your terminators get in range. That said, 3 DKs with jump packs are 205 points each. What point level are you playing at?

Welcome to 2 months ago

If you like grenades you should check out the special ones Grandmasters, techmarines and Xeno inquistors get: Rad grenades (-1 T for a unit assaulting or being assaulted by the bearer) and psychotroke grenades (random nastiness applied to an assaulting or assaulted unit). Those grenades and/or a Librarian are the key to making a CC oriented GK list imo.

whitedragon said:

Kinda a "pseudo" Deathwing, although the only reason I brought Mordrak is he seems nifty, I really want the Grand Strategy for some scoring Dreadknight love... I'm also trying to decide if I should find a way to fit a dread or two in there as well for more target saturation and valuable shooting.

Dreadnaughts can't score, I started a post on here under YMDC about how I think Dreadnaughts can score and the majority of people said Grand Strategy doesn't allow Dreadnaughts to score, I'm not starting up the argument again I'm just making the point that you should check out my post under YMDC (it's locked now though) and check with your FLGS before you make a list around that.

Grey Knight "Deathwing" doesn't really work as well as actual Deathwing. Why, because you don't have a 3+ invulnerable. Grey Knight Termies only ever have a 5+ invulnerable and at best have a 4+ in CC. This means that a single Medusa Pie Plate or Mawloc Pie Plate or even Plasma Spam could easily wreck an entire 5+ man squad. Which means 200+ points worth of Termies dead in 1 turn and thats assuming thats the only AP 2 that your opponent has.

Your better off attempting (although I haven't seen it done competitively yet) a Draigo Paladin army. The reason for that is because even though you only have a 5+ invulnerable (and Medusa's will still wreck your day) at least you can play wound allocation shannagins to help your Terminators survive longer.

Sanguinis wrote:

whitedragon said:

Kinda a "pseudo" Deathwing, although the only reason I brought Mordrak is he seems nifty, I really want the Grand Strategy for some scoring Dreadknight love... I'm also trying to decide if I should find a way to fit a dread or two in there as well for more target saturation and valuable shooting.

Dreadnaughts can't score, I started a post on here under YMDC about how I think Dreadnaughts can score and the majority of people said Grand Strategy doesn't allow Dreadnaughts to score, I'm not starting up the argument again I'm just making the point that you should check out my post under YMDC (it's locked now though) and check with your FLGS before you make a list around that.

Reread his post, he was talking about making Dreadknights scoring (who are Monstrous Creatures, not Walkers).

Prevalence of FNP has re-killed Termies(non TH/SS); you need AP 2/1 or high str to deny FNP, which every army has access to now; so any termies not carrying SS get toasted(especially when your army has little to no FNP).

if your taken "normal" GKT you Take Thawn

Thawnanators are great though kinda overlooked in favour of paladins
"i shall not yeild" camping on objectives is great fun

Rad Grenades are insanely good. I'm glad only a few models can take them.


In regards to the OP, it is a bit weird that GK termies have grenades when no one else does. But it's not like Terminators really need grenades anyway.

Njal in termie armor keeps his frag and krak grenades.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Prevalence of FNP has re-killed Termies(non TH/SS); you need AP 2/1 or high str to deny FNP, which every army has access to now; so any termies not carrying SS get toasted(especially when your army has little to no FNP).

That's why a Librarian with shrouding and/or land raider/storm raven is handy. Having a model with 2++ save to shunt stuff in CC or some swords for 4++ helps also.

It's really simple. GKTs get grenades because you can't throw grenades with your hands full. They have a free hand because of the Storm Bolter wrist mount. Other terminators hold a gun and CC weapon. Or if they wear a power fist, they can't grip a grenade.

dnanoodle wrote:It's really simple. GKTs get grenades because you can't throw grenades with your hands full. They have a free hand because of the Storm Bolter wrist mount. Other terminators hold a gun and CC weapon. Or if they wear a power fist, they can't grip a grenade.

Genius.

I guess you dont want to stick a lightning claw in your pocket to pull out a grenade. That might not end well.

WD, I think this is the most fanboi-ish post I've seen from you.

Though, I wish my DW got grenades...

Sanguinis wrote:

whitedragon said:

Kinda a "pseudo" Deathwing, although the only reason I brought Mordrak is he seems nifty, I really want the Grand Strategy for some scoring Dreadknight love... I'm also trying to decide if I should find a way to fit a dread or two in there as well for more target saturation and valuable shooting.

Dreadnaughts can't score, I started a post on here under YMDC about how I think Dreadnaughts can score and the majority of people said Grand Strategy doesn't allow Dreadnaughts to score, I'm not starting up the argument again I'm just making the point that you should check out my post under YMDC (it's locked now though) and check with your FLGS before you make a list around that.

Grey Knight "Deathwing" doesn't really work as well as actual Deathwing. Why, because you don't have a 3+ invulnerable. Grey Knight Termies only ever have a 5+ invulnerable and at best have a 4+ in CC. This means that a single Medusa Pie Plate or Mawloc Pie Plate or even Plasma Spam could easily wreck an entire 5+ man squad. Which means 200+ points worth of Termies dead in 1 turn and thats assuming thats the only AP 2 that your opponent has.

Your better off attempting (although I haven't seen it done competitively yet) a Draigo Paladin army. The reason for that is because even though you only have a 5+ invulnerable (and Medusa's will still wreck your day) at least you can play wound allocation shannagins to help your Terminators survive longer.

You really do understate the usage of cover. 4+ standard, with Librarian providing a stealth bubble gives everybody their 3+ invul against shooting. Just saying.

Sanguinis wrote:Grey Knight Termies only ever have a 5+ invulnerable and at best have a 2+ in CC.

Fixed that for ya.

Also, What Brother-Thunder said.

Fanboyish? Puh-Lease.

Terminators with 'nades are awesome.

Plus, Psycannons on terminators are better than Assault Cannons on terminators. Assault cannon spam used to rule the day in 4th edition, and Psycannons are even better.

Is there really enough AP2 (aside from dark eldar) at range that can knock out all your terminators? I'm not convinced, as melta is very short ranged, and missiles are only AP3. I don't even see plasmaguns anymore.

Second question, can I really fit enough Psycannons into the army to equal the glory days of old? Old deathwing didn't have 3++!

Now, I only wish they still had Fearless and the Shrouding!

Terminators with grenades is something new in the 40k universe.
I agree with some posters saying that the 5++ save is nothing to count on,
when AP2 weapons are targeting the unit, and there are AP2 weapons out there. like Executioners or Oblits .
I agree also with Whitedragon that this list is not very lengthy and so its doable.
AP2 weapons are devastating vs Termies but have usually S 7 so that they cannot instantly kill Paladins.
Therefore, Paladins would be my pick here.

wuestenfux wrote:Terminators with grenades is something new in the 40k universe.
I agree with some posters saying that the 5++ save is nothing to count on,
when AP2 weapons are targeting the unit, and there are AP2 weapons out there. like Executioners or Oblits .
I agree also with Whitedragon that this list is not very lengthy and so its doable.
AP2 weapons are devastating vs Termies but have usually S 7 so that they cannot instantly kill Paladins.
Therefore, Paladins would be my pick here.

Problem with full pallies is they come with a +275 point modifier . With the Grand Strategy, they can be troops anyway, but would we benefit from mixing paladins and regular terminators in an army? I think this army will shine by spamming psycannons, and I don't think the Pallies help me out here, unless they can take 2 per 5 man unit.

Problem with full pallies is they come with a +275 point modifier . With the Grand Strategy, they can be troops anyway, but would we benefit from mixing paladins and regular terminators in an army? I think this army will shine by spamming psycannons, and I don't think the Pallies help me out here, unless they can take 2 per 5 man unit.

Paladins can take 2 per 5 and they get them 5 points cheaper then regular terminators -- so 315 for 5 w/ 2x psycannon. So 160ish points per psycannon as opposed to 225.

winterman wrote:

Problem with full pallies is they come with a +275 point modifier . With the Grand Strategy, they can be troops anyway, but would we benefit from mixing paladins and regular terminators in an army? I think this army will shine by spamming psycannons, and I don't think the Pallies help me out here, unless they can take 2 per 5 man unit.

Paladins can take 2 per 5 and they get them 5 points cheaper then regular terminators -- so 315 for 5 w/ 2x psycannon. So 160ish points per psycannon as opposed to 225.

The question is, is it worth it to have ten more terminators, and 2 more scoring units, at the cost of one psycannon. Plus you have more units to spread your targets around better if you want. You can shoot 6 things instead of 4. The pallies have twice the wounds though, and you have to take 8 wounds to remove a psycannon with the pallies, while you only need 4 on the regular GKT's. This also factors into morale checks as well.

Draigo
4x 5 Pallies with 2x Psycannons
1535 points
8 Psycannons

GK Grand Master with Psycannon
6x 5 GK's with Psycannon
1545 points
7 Psycannons

I guess the Draigo list may be a tad better, but both would seem to work ok. I'm actually thinking less pallies and more dreadknights and dreadnoughts would be better, since you need all the extra shooting you can get.