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has anyone found an optimal balance for big fancy expensive guys to little dudes?. im thinking of a 25k CSM and IG list, and im trying to figure out how much of my FW stuff or just tanks in general i should take versus guys and transports. is having all four of the fw great demons too much? or just right? (currently i run nurgle and khorne with intent to buy the other two after i get back state side) lemme know if you guys have found anything.

At that point size, anything goes. Which is the entire point of apocalypse. That is definitely the time you start bringing out every FW model you have as its going to be the only time they are "balanced" in the game

I can agree that FW stuff is as balanced as it is going to be in APOC. Personally APOC shouldn't be played with balance and competitiveness in mind. APOC is about bringing out as much as you can and just having a great time! It would be good to check with your gaming group and see what they recommend.

Ive been playing Apoc a lot since its come out and have had to modify most of the rules to make it balanced.

Is it inherently balanced? No.. not at all. It requires both sides to have a similar amount of super heavies and fliers. Also it helps if all players are trying to do a "real combat force" instead of a bunch of heroes and no supporting troops. Or all players can do the latter

It really is a game that requires organization beforehand

In my mind there are no opponents in APOC, only fellow gamers.
The point, as I see it, of APOC is not to win but rather to enjoy a great big battle.

I know this is hard to handle for a few players out there, but APOC is not balanced because it is not meant to be played competitively.

This has been clearly stated again and again, as it has with 40k for that matter (please don't go Off Topic).

So with the Fellow Gamers attitude in place, I simply suggest you talk with the other players about what it is you want from the game.
An APOC battle is so big, and takes so long to plan, set up and execute, that one cannot rely on simply going and doing it.

I strongly suggest you talk to the other games about the presence and amount of Super-Heavy Class vehicles and Titan-Class vehicles. Any great disparity in the numbers of those units tend to have a major (negative) impact on the battle.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above two posts. Apocalypse games should be designed and planned in advance, and they should be for fun with fellow "gamers" not "opponents", nobody should care about the end result.

When they aren't planned, they end up one-sided slaughters, and that's never fun.

There is no balance in Apocalypse at any points level. They ran with this concept intentionally.

Balance? Thats for sissies!
You want balance? go play chess.
Seriously though, DarknessEternal got it in one, there's not meant to be a balance, Its just for fun.

i didnt really mean balance as far as both sides being equal but more so whats the balance between big stuff and small stuff to make your list more robust. cause we all know marines will get eaten by a titan, but if those same marines sneak up with a bunch of meltas well that titan just isnt gonna kill enough of them (think infiltrating or outflanking chosen)

basically if i wanted to make my list more killy do i do all big guys or a mix of both? cause im all about mass carnage

I like to see a mix of big and small.

even chess isn't balanced since white gets first turn ^_^

But APOC is for kicks, not the end result.

^_^ that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard sorry, chess IS balanced, black gets the first turn to counter-react against the white players move.

like wtf? have you ever played a serious game of chess in your life?

Dave_Nz wrote:^_^ that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard sorry, chess IS balanced, black gets the first turn to counter-react against the white players move.

like wtf? have you ever played a serious game of chess in your life?

Someone left their happy pill in the CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Anyhoo..

I'm a firm believer that a good game of APOC should include as many troops/infantry in it's forces that would warrant the presence of the titans/superheavy tanks etc.

Dave_Nz wrote:^_^ that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard sorry, chess IS balanced, black gets the first turn to counter-react against the white players move.

like wtf? have you ever played a serious game of chess in your life?

...except going first in Chess is an advantage. If you're only reacting to what your opponent is doing, you're letting him/her dictate what happens.

We went a little nuts in the last Apoc game we played.

Our side had 2 Eldar super heavies (with reserves, 3 actually), a baneblade and a Banehammer. Their side had a titan and 5 other super heavies.

It became a game of getting your super heavy's mega cannon into the perfect firing arch and range. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not something we want to do all of the time.

For the next game, we're limiting ourselves to 1 SH per player so that we can focus more on our "little guys" and other tactics.

We had an apocalypse game at the FLGS where everyone at to bring t least 1 Troops choice and then anything else they wanted to...
Taking Njal the Stormcaller, and then half a dozen Rune Priests did not make me a popular bunny...

The only thing we say in our gamnig group is agree on the number of superheavies, if any, that are allowed in the game. Other than that anything goes.

Properly organised apocalypse games are the best ones...
Usually so epic.
Get 10,000 points each side and have about 5 players for each side. Give them control of certain groupings of units and then go for it. If you want it to end then add a turn limitation but you may as well keep playing until everyone is dead. Time limits also helps against anarchic games...

Hey, purplefood, i heard a rumour that the best possible vehicle in APOC is.........

THE CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!!

As long as you don't count the Damocles

Ozendorph wrote:As long as you don't count the Damocles

The CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is still far superior even counting the Damocles...

I have found a decent balance.

Every 4000pts allows someone to field 6 Structure Points, and/or wounds with 2 wounds equal 1 Structure point.

This tends to limit the number of Super Heavies one can bring to the field.