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Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






What were you up against ?

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Made in it
Deadly Dire Avenger





Biel-Tan

I was up against a lot of those chicken looking thingy from the mechanicum 12 wounds a piece a lot of dakka. they were scary too!

We are the Children of Eldanesh and Ulthanesh. The galaxy will be ours again.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Hey guys, I am hoping you can help me build a list around my Skathach Wraithknight with inferno lances. I know its not the optimal choice, but evidently with the Wraith Host and Spiritseer, I can give him Faolchus Wing or the Shiftshroud of Alanssar so when the Wraithknight deep strikes in, I can use the strategem that gives him a 4+. So what to surround him with? I dont really want to buy any more models, so I was hoping you could sort through what I have and see if we can come up with something fairly competitive (not the biggest deal). So I was thinking

Farseer on bike
Warlock on bike
20 guardians with 2 shuriken cannons (dont need to include cannons if we want to save the 20 points)
5 rangers
5 rangers

Autaurch with Wings
Spiritseer
5 dire avengers
5 dire avengers
5 dire avengers

Skathach Wraithknight with inferno lances

Now, here are my options to add in:
6 shining spears with exarch and lance
2 wraithlords with brightlances and glaives
2-3 waveserpents?
5 wraithguard with wraithcannon
3 warwalkers

other factors- I could drop the second battalion as I dont own all those dire avengers anyways. The windriders could simply be windriders (I can swap). Any focus on a list you could give me would be great, obviously the wraithknight is at the heart of it.

Thanks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again, any help guys would be appreciated. Im the guy that plays like once a month or two and just dont have the insight as to what works and doesnt from playing lots of games. Thank you

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/12 20:52:44


 
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






How many points ?

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




2000 pts
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






My first thoughts are something along this line. Sadly this would mean investing in another warlock. They are the cheapest HQ money wise so you should be able to pick a used one up on the cheap-

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [44 PL, 8CP, 847pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ [11 PL, 199pts] +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 132pts]: 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts], Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 67pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts], Witchblade

+ Troops [15 PL, 310pts] +

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender [160pts]
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform [15pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform [15pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

+ Fast Attack [10 PL, 206pts] +

Shining Spears [10 PL, 206pts]
. 5x Shining Spear [170pts]: 5x Laser Lance [40pts], 5x Twin Shuriken Catapult [10pts]
. Shining Spear Exarch [36pts]: Star Lance [10pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

+ Heavy Support [8 PL, 132pts] +

War Walkers [8 PL, 132pts]
. War Walker [4 PL, 66pts]: Starcannon [13pts], Starcannon [13pts]
. War Walker [4 PL, 66pts]: Starcannon [13pts], Starcannon [13pts]

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [61 PL, , 1,152pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [] +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

Detachment CP [1CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Wraith Host [-1CP]

+ HQ [9 PL, 219pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield [6pts], Reaper Launcher [22pts], Star Glaive [6pts]

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Elites [11 PL, 190pts] +

Wraithguard [11 PL, 190pts]: Wraithcannon [75pts], 5x Wraithguard [115pts]

+ Lord of War [32 PL, 566pts] +

Skathach Wraithknight [32 PL, 566pts]: 2x Inferno Lance [120pts], 2x Starcannon [26pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [9 PL, 177pts] +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 177pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts], Spirit Stones [10pts], Star Engines [10pts], Twin Shuriken Cannon [17pts], Vectored Engines [10pts]

++ Total: [105 PL, 8CP, 1,999pts] ++

Give falochus wing and mark of incoprable hunter tait for the autarch for sniping shenanigans. .

The tactics would be to zip the wave serpent with the wraith guard inside along with the two psykers up the board towards the nastiest unit. The shining spears with seer and warlock bombing towards the other flank to try and spread the enemy out. Could also change doom to guide.

Keep the knight and guardians in reserve and possibly the rangers depending on the mission. T2 drop the knight wherever you spirit seer is with a blob of the wraithguard and the guardian to wherever they can do the most damage.

I would say in this case the spears are more of a distraction carnifex in this case as you want the wave serpent deliver the wraith guard to where they can do damage. You wont get re-roll ones without a bike-tarch. and the winged option is too expensive.

Alternatively you could drop the reaper launcher from the autarch, change him to autarch with swooping hawk wing and give him the extra movement trait so he can keep up with the spear blob for the re-roll ones.

If you don't get first turn you need to hide your units back.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Dang, I thought they had brought down the wraithknight to be comparable with regular knights?
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






sturguard wrote:
Dang, I thought they had brought down the wraithknight to be comparable with regular knights?


Ha no....We aren't imperium, we don't get no love or even a 4++ on our mech things...We get a points tax for being affiliated with some soup faction rhyming with ynarri tho!
But we also get almost broken psychic jets which is pretty wild..

The scatch knight can DS which is a big deal. Not sure how many titanic can do that so that's pretty cool. He's more expensive than a normal knight obviously.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 03:10:15


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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So just a few thoughts-

Not sold on the shuriken cannons on the guardians for 20 points.The catapults already give you 4 shots for free, so you get 2 extra shots for 20 pts. Double that and you get a dire avenger squad. I mean you are looking for 6's to wound anyways whether its with a catapult or a cannon, the str 6 really doesnt mean anything. I have the cannons, I have used them before, but in this case, I think saving the 20 pts is a better idea.

Wave Serpent- that's alot of upgrades, I thought one of the best things about serpents is they were fairly cheap, I think we could drop the star engines and save 10 pts.

For those 30 pts, I could take the old book winged autarch for 117 and I could put the second warlock on a bike, then finally give the Shroud to the Spiritseer so he can walk from the shadows right next to the wraithknight and use the stratagem.

I could put the wraithguard in the webway with the guardians and get all the points back for the wave serpent. If I drop the wave serpent and the warlock, I could add in 2 wraithlords. Not necessarily the best units but brightlances could add some extra long ranged firepower, or I could make them bare bones and just have them run at the enemy.

Are war walkers any good in this edition? I thought they were pretty fragile?
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




sturguard wrote:
So just a few thoughts-

Not sold on the shuriken cannons on the guardians for 20 points.The catapults already give you 4 shots for free, so you get 2 extra shots for 20 pts. Double that and you get a dire avenger squad. I mean you are looking for 6's to wound anyways whether its with a catapult or a cannon, the str 6 really doesnt mean anything. I have the cannons, I have used them before, but in this case, I think saving the 20 pts is a better idea.

Wave Serpent- that's alot of upgrades, I thought one of the best things about serpents is they were fairly cheap, I think we could drop the star engines and save 10 pts.

For those 30 pts, I could take the old book winged autarch for 117 and I could put the second warlock on a bike, then finally give the Shroud to the Spiritseer so he can walk from the shadows right next to the wraithknight and use the stratagem.

I could put the wraithguard in the webway with the guardians and get all the points back for the wave serpent. If I drop the wave serpent and the warlock, I could add in 2 wraithlords. Not necessarily the best units but brightlances could add some extra long ranged firepower, or I could make them bare bones and just have them run at the enemy.

Are war walkers any good in this edition? I thought they were pretty fragile?


You pay for the heavy weapon platform more for the platform itself than the weapon. Guardians are pretty poorly protected with their 5+ save, or 4+ in cover. But if you make that weapon platform tank the small arms fire first with its 2 wounds and 3+ save (2+ with protect or cover), it will save you way more than its own points worth of guardians. The extra strength and shots is just a bonus.

I'd also always vouch for cheap Wave serpents. Their strength is their durability relative to their cost, and you want your enemy to blunt their guns by shooting at it. If it has another -1 to hit from Vectored Engines, a 6+++ from spirit stones etc, they wont bother to target it, and you'll waste those extra points, as well as remove one of the WS's main functions.

War walkers are not as bad as they look from what I've seen. Nothing amazing but their 5++ makes them kind of tricky to take out, you have to throw more anti-tank than you think at them to kill one. Again, keep them cheap and mobile so they can move to and sit on objectives. I can't see them being a massive threat compared to other Eldar heavy support unless you throw heaps of buffs onto them, but certainly not a waste of points.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I'm a big fan of WWs, especially after CA2018. They're a fast, cheap, relatively durable platform (Alaitoc -1, T6, 6W 5++) that can innately deep strike. They wont carry a gunline by themselves, but in support of a larger force they get things done.

Two favorite loadouts are twin shuricannons for skirmishing (remember, they have battle focus) or twin starcannons for light gunship work.
   
Made in de
Deadly Dire Avenger





Biel-Tan

WW's w Starcannon and biel tan warlod traits are beast

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 13:03:51


We are the Children of Eldanesh and Ulthanesh. The galaxy will be ours again.

 
   
Made in ru
Furious Fire Dragon




Russia, Moscow

Guardian platform is a defensive pointsink. You should almost always take it, if you want it cheaper, can put SL on it.
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






sturguard wrote:
So just a few thoughts-

Not sold on the shuriken cannons on the guardians for 20 points.The catapults already give you 4 shots for free, so you get 2 extra shots for 20 pts. Double that and you get a dire avenger squad. I mean you are looking for 6's to wound anyways whether its with a catapult or a cannon, the str 6 really doesnt mean anything. I have the cannons, I have used them before, but in this case, I think saving the 20 pts is a better idea.

Wave Serpent- that's alot of upgrades, I thought one of the best things about serpents is they were fairly cheap, I think we could drop the star engines and save 10 pts.

For those 30 pts, I could take the old book winged autarch for 117 and I could put the second warlock on a bike, then finally give the Shroud to the Spiritseer so he can walk from the shadows right next to the wraithknight and use the stratagem.

I could put the wraithguard in the webway with the guardians and get all the points back for the wave serpent. If I drop the wave serpent and the warlock, I could add in 2 wraithlords. Not necessarily the best units but brightlances could add some extra long ranged firepower, or I could make them bare bones and just have them run at the enemy.

Are war walkers any good in this edition? I thought they were pretty fragile?



1. As mentioned the guardian platforms are there more for albeiative wounds and to shoot at stuff further away. Dont forget screening is a thing...

2. If you got an idea for that the 10 points grom the upgrade would make a difference... go ahead. Extra movement and durability is nifty. People wont shoot at an empty serpents. Ppl will shoot at a serpent filled with guard to kill the guard.

3. Thats 3cp youre looking to spend to put 2 things on the web way... youd start the game with 5... 2 for the invuln strat. Leaves you with 3 for the rest of the battle.


Play whatever you want man. Advice has been given. Up to you what you do with it!

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Don't misunderstand, I appreciate the advice, I am just trying to generate some more discussion.

So if I drop the wave serpent, I could trade that into 3 units of 5 dire avengers which gives me 5 more command points, obviously 3 would be going to the webway, so Id have 10 more for the game. Worth it? I would still have 57 pts leftover from the trade, so I could add another warwalker which would kind of mitigate some of the loss of firepower from the serpent? Thoughts?
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Can I get everyone's opinions on Shining Spears in their current condition?

Best Craftworld still seems to be Alaitoc, as stacking up to -2 to hit is a big jump in survivability.

What are people's deployment and movement priorities for Spears? How do you avoid their immediate death? What's your priority list for buffs, i.e. which one buff do you think they can't function successfully without? Do they benefit from being run alongside any particular units?

Given that soul bursting shenanigans are dead and gone, is there a case to be made for MSU Spears now, to maximise laser lances, instead of the traditional super-buffed big unit?

Finally, do you think there's a case now for them to be taken Biel-tan now, to DS and young-king Strat them into cc, instead of dodging shots on T1 with Alaitoc?
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






Seems like a sound logic. Try it out.

However, are you still looking for the wraith host detatchement? Also you dont have enough HQs to field 2 battalions and a supreme command.

As far as I understand, both the target wraith construct unit and the spiritseer have to be in the same specialist detatchment if you looking for the invuln strat. I could be wrong here but thats how i read it.

Whenever I tried to build a list with a knights/specialist detatchement i found dual battalion seems necessary but then takes up too many points and then youre not left with enough to offer threat saturation. Our troops suck..especialy small squads. Minimalist dual battalions dont seem worth it.

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Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





I think, at least in Alaitoc, Rangers are solid, Avengers are acceptable but have to LoS deny a lot to stand a chance of survival – but *ahem* I have to say I love 24 storm guardians with morale immunity.

People seem to hate on them because their damage output is uninspiring. Well yeah, they're 1pt more than a cultist. But their main benefit is board control, screening, tying up in cc, and stubbornness... When I started with them I was obsessed with buffing them to be damage dealers with black guardians, ambush of blades, enhance, etc, etc. But now I much prefer them running just with a morale-immunity character and one buff (fortune or protect). They gum up the board something beautiful.

So Havocs with a chaos lord, Votlw and endless cacophony are pretty much the best chaff clearer in the game right now. But here's how they play out against an Alaitoc storm blob with their shield Strat and fortune on them: 10 killed. so It'll take that 3cp-a-turn premium unit three turns to wipe the storm blob, that's very solid.

I think 144pts is very competitive for what they bring to CWE.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

sturguard wrote:

Are war walkers any good in this edition? I thought they were pretty fragile?

They are not bad and their multiple heavy weapons make them a great candidate for Guide. Bring them in from Reserves so your opponent cannot knock them out T1 and that is a lot of firepower they can lay down. The 5++ is just enough to frustrate the occasional anti-tank shot.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






 grouchoben wrote:
Can I get everyone's opinions on Shining Spears in their current condition?

Best Craftworld still seems to be Alaitoc, as stacking up to -2 to hit is a big jump in survivability.

What are people's deployment and movement priorities for Spears? How do you avoid their immediate death? What's your priority list for buffs, i.e. which one buff do you think they can't function successfully without? Do they benefit from being run alongside any particular units?

Given that soul bursting shenanigans are dead and gone, is there a case to be made for MSU Spears now, to maximise laser lances, instead of the traditional super-buffed big unit?

Finally, do you think there's a case now for them to be taken Biel-tan now, to DS and young-king Strat them into cc, instead of dodging shots on T1 with Alaitoc?


Thats a tough one.

Yeah alitoic still seesm the best... If I was going to run bieltan bikes with minimal support, id just go with bare bones windriders with cats in many multiple blobs of 3 using cover where possible. But it depends what else you are bringing.

I think spears are solid but they are now bit overcosted. (Like everything else in the codex apart from the fliers and wave serpent)

I probably wouldn't run one deathstar unit of spears as Alitoic. But 2 smaller blobs of 4-5. I don't like death-star blob tactic. Prefer showing lots of different threats to make target priority an absolute nightmare.. Two blobs of 4 spears hiding an autarch and seer council should mean that even if one blob is wiped T1, the enemy still has to contend with the second blob which you can buff in subsequent turn.. Buff wise I think protect, then conceal as secondary, Seer wise - fortune & Doom if you going max defense and have an autarch for re-roll ones or guide & doom if you dont.

I like the sound of 1 blob of 5 spears as saim-hann. Nova lance for the autarch, Matchless agility & raging wind strat for spears if you didint get first turn and they are alive, and then lots of 3 man scat bikes units to fill detachment. .

That way the spears are there but the rest of your army does not have to be built around them and you can have lots of other threats.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 grouchoben wrote:
I think, at least in Alaitoc, Rangers are solid, Avengers are acceptable but have to LoS deny a lot to stand a chance of survival – but *ahem* I have to say I love 24 storm guardians with morale immunity.

People seem to hate on them because their damage output is uninspiring. Well yeah, they're 1pt more than a cultist. But their main benefit is board control, screening, tying up in cc, and stubbornness... When I started with them I was obsessed with buffing them to be damage dealers with black guardians, ambush of blades, enhance, etc, etc. But now I much prefer them running just with a morale-immunity character and one buff (fortune or protect). They gum up the board something beautiful.

So Havocs with a chaos lord, Votlw and endless cacophony are pretty much the best chaff clearer in the game right now. But here's how they play out against an Alaitoc storm blob with their shield Strat and fortune on them: 10 killed. so It'll take that 3cp-a-turn premium unit three turns to wipe the storm blob, that's very solid.

I think 144pts is very competitive for what they bring to CWE.


I have to say that I've been enjoying 2 ulthwe rangers units, with a blob of guardians so that I can field Eldrad and benefit from blakc guardians and they do great. Makes for an efficient battalion and doesn't feel like that much of a tax for CP... The inbuilt -1 is tempting enough to make people waste shots and go for them but not useless to be irrelevant. The additional 6+++ compliments it nice.

The more I think about it the more avengers need to be taken as Alitoic in max 2/3 blobs and with Asurmen & avatar. By that point it gets really expensive for what it offers because asurmen and the avatar cost a premium! Seems also valid with alitoic autarch instead of the avatar but that only offer 6" fearless which doesn't give enough spread on the board..Its a toss up though and have to try either of those in a game so im talking purely from a paper exercise here..

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/13 21:58:06


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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

@Argive I'm building up to trying a variation on this using Iyanden. I'm going for 3 big squad's with shields on the exarch's backed up with an Autarch and a warlock/spiritseer with protect. It's not as good but it's a damn sight cheaper. They only lose 1 to morale. Have a 5++. Re-roll 1's.
What do you think of that?
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






kryczek wrote:
@Argive I'm building up to trying a variation on this using Iyanden. I'm going for 3 big squad's with shields on the exarch's backed up with an Autarch and a warlock/spiritseer with protect. It's not as good but it's a damn sight cheaper. They only lose 1 to morale. Have a 5++. Re-roll 1's.
What do you think of that?


You mean Iyanded battalion with 3 blobs of DA's?
I think if you put in units that would benefit most from Iyanden such as knights/ tanks/wraithblades/Lords & psytronome, then I could potentialy see a Iyanded battalion..I wouldn't say it strikes me as the most optimal. But hey, it could work, I say try it and maybe it will work for your roster and play style

I have a feeling think you'd loose more models from lack of -1 to hit than you'd save in leadership rolls.
I'm no good with mathhammer so someone else would need to step in and calculate against say a squad of intercessors/bolters.

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Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




In My Lab

T3, 4+/5++ save, Ld 8, right?

Against Bolters...

Iyanden take 1 Casualty per 4.5 shots.
Alatioc take 1 Casualty per 6 shots.

Since the max squad size is 10, that means to wipe the squad you need to do 7 Casualties on average (Alatioc) or 9 (Iyanden).

That's 42 shots as compared to 40.5.

Alatioc is better.

Against Bolt Rifles...

Iyanden requires 3.375 shots per casualty
Alatioc requires 4.5

That's 31.5 as compared to 30.375.

Alatioc is still better.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot




Scotland

Yes DA's my apologies. I'm aiming for this to be my troops for my Iyanden wraithhost. With a wraithknight and a couple of wraithlord's i can't afford Asurmen and an Avatar. Cheers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@JNA yes that's true but it's 200+ points cheaper. Cheers for the math as I never checked.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/13 22:43:41


 
   
Made in es
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot



Canary Island (Spain)

Next week I will be in a little trip and I will play one game against an Imperial player. It will be my first game using non Imperium so I am a bit lost. The army is not mine, it is from one of the other players. They gived me a list with the units, most of them painted as alaitoc (-1 to hit?).

Farseer and Farseer on bike
Autarch and Autarch on bike
Warlocks on bike, 2 of them
20 Rangers
30 guardians with a couple of platforms
6 war walkers
9 shinning spears
6 Dark Reapers
2 Falcons
2 Fire Prism
5 support weapons
10 banshee
6 wraithguards
3 wave serpent
2 nighwing
1 phoenix jet

I would like to play them as Alaitoc as well, but I am confused aboud the list because I never played them. Only really idea I have for sure are the shining spears with a Farseer on bike for buff them. I would appreciate any help for a list.

2500
1500
400 
   
Made in gb
Swift Swooping Hawk






Thats a solid roster. Not sure about the FW planes as i cant remember their points or rules. What points are you playing?

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Made in es
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot



Canary Island (Spain)

 Argive wrote:
Thats a solid roster. Not sure about the FW planes as i cant remember their points or rules. What points are you playing?


1750 CA 18. I only know that he will be playing Imperium.

The Nightwing is 138points

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/14 22:14:25


2500
1500
400 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 Argive wrote:
Thats a solid roster. Not sure about the FW planes as i cant remember their points or rules. What points are you playing?


There were some nightwings in top placing competitive lists this month.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Nightwings are fantastic. Theyre basically Craftworld Razorwings, but with access to RoB/RoF support (plus the ever delicious Alaitoc -2 and Wings of Khaine double pivot).
   
Made in cn
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




They're solid but have to compete for a spot with the AAA grade Hemlock and Crimson Hunter, which is a nice plastic kit also. The hitting on a 4+ with brightlances is what puts me off really.
   
 
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