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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Carnikang wrote:
 zend wrote:
Oh nooo, a Blood Angels character is getting updated for the first time in like 20 years! It’s so unfair to the Xenos players!


Did you guys really want a new Red Terror or Lictor model that badly or something? They’re the only Nid characters that haven’t been updated, and Red Terror has absolutely no history with the Blood Angels.


You don't even know the half of it. I want a resculpt for Swarmie putting him in the LoW tier, Resculpted and plastic Lictors, Biovores, Pyrovores, Shrikes, Red Terror, Deathleaper, and maybe redone troops, because feth those split-headed builds. I want Lictors in broods of 3, and for Deathleaper to be actively scary, for My vanguard units to actually work well and not be practically useless. Give us Shrikes back with an upgrade kit for Warriors, give us an expansive list of biomorphs like we had in 5th, MORE psychic/biomancy powers, do wacky and weird biological weapons (feth space marine dreads for having a million different weapon loadouts). There's so much that can be done with an ever evolving and bio-engineered race that every time there is a Tyranid release, it actively makes me less likely to play the game because it's always something boring or a half-baked design.

Looking at you Toxicrene, you're just a venomthrope smushed onto a Maleceptor body, who is already boring for being a 'brain bug'.

My disappointment is boundless and my vitriol is acidic in my stomach.

But honestly I just want more cool alien designs/beasts for my army, and it's frustrating that they don't want to do that with a faction that could really easily do that.



Yep totally with you- although I do love the toxicrene model - it was nice to see them start to bring back the weirdness with him and the haruspex.

But really I think PA is just a holding card - I think releases have been restricted due to their production problems. When the new factory comes up I'm guessing we'll see more model releases. Hopefully they start evolving the NIds as well.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





rhavien wrote:
Right now we pay the same or more as SM players for the same models with inferior rules, our stratagems are straight worse

Woah, seems like you'd be in a way better posiiton of Blood Angels were implemented as a supplement rather than as a separate codex!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/19 12:35:07


 
   
Made in de
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
rhavien wrote:
Right now we pay the same or more as SM players for the same models with inferior rules, our stratagems are straight worse

Woah, seems like you'd be in a way better posiiton of Blood Angels were implemented as a supplement rather than as a separate codex!


I'm not against it. I would very much welcome it. How du you plan to change that? I started to paint my toys red back in 2nd edition. Man, if I would have known how many years of envy that would cause... But I'm a son of Sanguinius and the rage and suffering is in our blood.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/19 12:46:18


 
   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




rhavien wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
rhavien wrote:
Right now we pay the same or more as SM players for the same models with inferior rules, our stratagems are straight worse

Woah, seems like you'd be in a way better posiiton of Blood Angels were implemented as a supplement rather than as a separate codex!


I'm not against it. I would very much welcome it. How du you plan to change that? I started to paint my toys red back in 2nd edition. Man, if I would have known how many years of envy that would cause... But I'm a son of Sanguinius and the rage and suffering is in our blood.


Chaos bois hear you as well, at the end of the day having PA3 hopefully fix up blood angels is a good move as it saves a previous codex release slot for someone else who needs more of a re-write. My concern is that grey knights and the other stragglers will only get a PA mention rather than a new codex.

In honesty though if you make blood angels a supplement, you have a bigger problem than the current marine meta, because they have a codex worth of unique stuff as well as the stuff they inherit from the codex and the inherent power boost from doctrines etc.
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





rhavien wrote:
How du you plan to change that?

I'm sadly powerless about it, except mentioning it during GW's survey, which they seem to listen to.

 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
rhavien wrote:
Right now we pay the same or more as SM players for the same models with inferior rules, our stratagems are straight worse

Woah, seems like you'd be in a way better posiiton of Blood Angels were implemented as a supplement rather than as a separate codex!


How does having inferior rules in a supplement differ from having inferior rules in a Codex?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





You pay the same points for the same models when in a supplement.

 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean




Birmingham

I wouldn't begrudge Blood Angels getting cool stuff, god knows the separation between the Space Marines is dumb and leaves plenty of players playing the exaxt same units but with worse rules, if I thought there was any chance that Nids would get anything like that kind of support in the same book.

But based on current form, I don't. Also, given that PA3 comes out in December that will make 5 straight months of Space Marines being given tons of new rules to play with. Yawn already.
   
Made in de
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




Also you get the new hot strats and goodies like combat doctrines.
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

And you're still inferior to every other Marine because the problem is the rules themselves, not where the rules are found.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





rhavien wrote:
Even if I'm clearly not allowed to want things as a BA player, I hope GW treads us better that just an afterthought and try to sell us a new model. You know what? Personally I don't want new plastic at all. You are right, as we got more than enough from all the Primaris releases. All I want from GW is some pages filled with cool rules, that someone gave at least a second thought. Right now we pay the same or more as SM players for the same models with inferior rules, our stratagems are straight worse and we are likely to get an assault oriented doctrine that everyone knows is a disadvantage to begin with. Our chapter tactic won't benefit vehicles in any meaningful way, even if we loose the CT restrictions. Please GW, make it a hit and not a miss.



Relatable, really.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




rhavien wrote:
Also you get the new hot strats and goodies like combat doctrines.

That's why I'm planning to make a thread that says, if you want Dark and Blood Angels to be different codices, they don't get Combat Doctrines as they believe they're not codex compliant enough. Let's see anyone defend that.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





You already have one "Chapters should be consolidated into the marine codex" thread, Slayer-Fan123! And you know it, given how much you posted into it.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
You already have one "Chapters should be consolidated into the marine codex" thread, Slayer-Fan123! And you know it, given how much you posted into it.

Yeah that thread is too cluttered to really make that point though.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

I remember 5 E when BA were the hot stuff and clobbered SM.


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Just before SW became the hot stuff and clobbered BA. And then GK became the hot stuff and clobbered SW. GW balance at its best

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
rhavien wrote:
Also you get the new hot strats and goodies like combat doctrines.

That's why I'm planning to make a thread that says, if you want Dark and Blood Angels to be different codices, they don't get Combat Doctrines as they believe they're not codex compliant enough. Let's see anyone defend that.


Dont give them combat doctrines. Give them Visions of the Angel or something where they retain the +1 to hit or wound on the charge (I forget which) and maybe make the +1 attack on the first turn of combat a +d3.

There is a lot you can do to push a play style forwards without just giving combat doctrines.

Edit: my point is that BA players want a buff to bring their threat level up to that of codex marines, that doesnt mean giving them codex marines rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/19 17:27:01


 
   
Made in de
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
rhavien wrote:
Also you get the new hot strats and goodies like combat doctrines.

That's why I'm planning to make a thread that says, if you want Dark and Blood Angels to be different codices, they don't get Combat Doctrines as they believe they're not codex compliant enough. Let's see anyone defend that.


I don't get your intention behind it other than being opportunistic to be honest. Do you want to say because we have our own codex, we shouldn't get rules equal to normal SM?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
rhavien wrote:
Also you get the new hot strats and goodies like combat doctrines.

That's why I'm planning to make a thread that says, if you want Dark and Blood Angels to be different codices, they don't get Combat Doctrines as they believe they're not codex compliant enough. Let's see anyone defend that.


Dont give them combat doctrines. Give them Visions of the Angel or something where they retain the +1 to hit or wound on the charge (I forget which) and maybe make the +1 attack on the first turn of combat a +d3.

There is a lot you can do to push a play style forwards without just giving combat doctrines.

Edit: my point is that BA players want a buff to bring their threat level up to that of codex marines, that doesnt mean giving them codex marines rules.
But they're a codex chapter. They should have codex marine rules.


There was a nice cycle going where the snowflake chapters would get nice things, which would be promptly stolen by the codex marines. That seemed to stop when they just ate the Black Templars, now everything out of sync again.

Partly GW justs needs to stop filling release gaps with spammed books (that they clearly don't have time to review, given the takebacks in the supplement FAQs). Let things simmer for a while, rather than rush out the next product.
Spending a year rushing past the index versions was a big mistake, they should sat on those for the first 2 years of 8th, and given the system a good shakedown, then released codexes in order of who needed the most patching. We shouldn't be on version 2 plus paid DLC already.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/19 17:33:28


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Yeah the vast majority of the Blood Angels chapter is codex compliant, and the only units that shouldnt be able to use combat doctrines would be Death Company units. Because they cray cray.

But Slayer-Fan knew this and is going to say “See? They should be merged with the normal codex!!”. Even though no one wants to carry and flip through a 500+ page space marine textbook just to make it easier for him to figure out which chapter is statistically the best on the table, and then bandwagon it.
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/19 17:56:43


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......


I'm still waiting for the Psychic Awakening to have anything for Psykers. I mean, I guess Chaos had their sorcerer model delayed to this book and Word bearers get a Strat to autocast stuff, but... honestly. Beyond the SM getting to blow CP on extra powers theres been so very little focus on what this 'campaign' is supposed to be about.

Even the fiction is wackily unconcerned- the most recent story is White Scars vs Night Lords and the Librarian pulled a 'I'll be in my bunk,' because the NL started torturing astropaths. Woo. Awakenings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/20 05:29:51


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




San Jose, CA

I think the psychic awakening is narcoleptic. There really hasnt been much Awakening going on.

when the feth are they gonna wake the feth up before they get punked the feth up?
   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......


You want to pay them for more books than you do now? Honestly I think people should be more careful of what they wish for, do you want the supplement for more depth and fluff or because you think it'll make them OP?
   
Made in gb
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






Dudeface wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......


You want to pay them for more books than you do now? Honestly I think people should be more careful of what they wish for, do you want the supplement for more depth and fluff or because you think it'll make them OP?

People want supplements for many reasons, for example I'd like a kult of speed supplement so I have a depth of strategic choices for my Evil Sunz, so I can play my buggies and bikes without auto losing and so my sub faction gets more flavourful choices. Y'know, all the things Marines get. I'd happily pay GW for this book. I'd much rather pay them for this book than for a PA book where my faction is the whipping post for Spehz Muhreenz again. Particularly when my faction will no doubt get a quarter of the rules marines enjoy.

The last PA book was such a mess - I really hope GW don't feth up Blood of Balls but if they're going to treat CSM so poorly compared to Marines what hope do 'NPC xenos faction #5' have? We'll see. Maybe GW have actually listened to their customer base who are sick of unrelenting marine releases, rules and focus. Doubt it, but you never know.
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......


You want to pay them for more books than you do now? Honestly I think people should be more careful of what they wish for, do you want the supplement for more depth and fluff or because you think it'll make them OP?

People want supplements for many reasons, for example I'd like a kult of speed supplement so I have a depth of strategic choices for my Evil Sunz, so I can play my buggies and bikes without auto losing and so my sub faction gets more flavourful choices. Y'know, all the things Marines get. I'd happily pay GW for this book. I'd much rather pay them for this book than for a PA book where my faction is the whipping post for Spehz Muhreenz again. Particularly when my faction will no doubt get a quarter of the rules marines enjoy.

The last PA book was such a mess - I really hope GW don't feth up Blood of Balls but if they're going to treat CSM so poorly compared to Marines what hope do 'NPC xenos faction #5' have? We'll see. Maybe GW have actually listened to their customer base who are sick of unrelenting marine releases, rules and focus. Doubt it, but you never know.


At this point they can shove their "supplements " right where they belong, to clean up after lengthy toilet visits.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in gb
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......


You want to pay them for more books than you do now? Honestly I think people should be more careful of what they wish for, do you want the supplement for more depth and fluff or because you think it'll make them OP?

People want supplements for many reasons, for example I'd like a kult of speed supplement so I have a depth of strategic choices for my Evil Sunz, so I can play my buggies and bikes without auto losing and so my sub faction gets more flavourful choices. Y'know, all the things Marines get. I'd happily pay GW for this book. I'd much rather pay them for this book than for a PA book where my faction is the whipping post for Spehz Muhreenz again. Particularly when my faction will no doubt get a quarter of the rules marines enjoy.

The last PA book was such a mess - I really hope GW don't feth up Blood of Balls but if they're going to treat CSM so poorly compared to Marines what hope do 'NPC xenos faction #5' have? We'll see. Maybe GW have actually listened to their customer base who are sick of unrelenting marine releases, rules and focus. Doubt it, but you never know.


Tbh I think supplements were a mistake given how they were done, I'd rather not them do more for everyone and rather knock marine power levels down (by a reasonable amount, dont want them gutting again) rather than boost everyone's up.

It's nice to have extra fluffy rules and equipment or whatever, but the format they're in basically made them mandatory additions, instead of being the optional "if you really love this play style/chapter" I imagine they were intended to be.
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Dudeface wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully we will get some more info on the PA3 in due course.

It would be nice if it was not just Blood Angel Cooex Appendix 1 and Codex Space Marines Appendix 2 but sadly that seem unlikely.

If only there was time amongst the endless, relentless waves of Marine releases to give a single Sept, Regiment, Dynasty, Order, Craftworld, Hive Fleet, Kabal, Coven, or Cult a supplement but I guess not......


You want to pay them for more books than you do now? Honestly I think people should be more careful of what they wish for, do you want the supplement for more depth and fluff or because you think it'll make them OP?


I picked up several supplements to read as I am interested in the background - for instance I am not going to start an Iron Hands or White Scars army (I haev a few models for each and 4 other Chapter armies) at the moment, similar to the Iyanden Supplement I bought way back when.

A special character/Supplement for each of the factions/sub factions - Marines of course being a sub-faction would I think be welcomed by many

Except of course the hard core Marines First, Llast and only brigade.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

I'm surprised people keep saying chaos got screwed in the book. Yeah they didn't get new legion traits but every legion in there got something really nifty out of the book, some of which will be shaking up the meta a bit, like Alpha Legion, and night Lords, the latter of which used to be considered trash. Now they've got abilities that are pretty terrifying if used correctly.

Yeah maybe chaos didn't get as much as marines have over the past few months but to act like GW didn't give the original legions anything to work with is kind of ridiculous. They even gave stuff to make word bearers have some neat tricks. WORD BEARERS, canonically one of the most useless of the original legions. I don't see how that makes the book useless. The legions came out better than the Black Templar did, since there's no way they'll get to use Imperial Fist stuff on top of their own abilities most likely. Yeah the black Templar got more stuff but I don't see them taking down events anytime soon.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in de
Gangly Grot Rebel




Nickin' 'ur stuff

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'm surprised people keep saying chaos got screwed in the book. Yeah they didn't get new legion traits but every legion in there got something really nifty out of the book, some of which will be shaking up the meta a bit, like Alpha Legion, and night Lords, the latter of which used to be considered trash. Now they've got abilities that are pretty terrifying if used correctly.

Yeah maybe chaos didn't get as much as marines have over the past few months but to act like GW didn't give the original legions anything to work with is kind of ridiculous. They even gave stuff to make word bearers have some neat tricks. WORD BEARERS, canonically one of the most useless of the original legions. I don't see how that makes the book useless. The legions came out better than the Black Templar did, since there's no way they'll get to use Imperial Fist stuff on top of their own abilities most likely. Yeah the black Templar got more stuff but I don't see them taking down events anytime soon.


I see what you did there

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend. 
   
 
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