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Well i was reading the IG codex and i was reading the part about ogryns and ratling and that got me thinking...
could abhumans be turned into space marines or used in any way?

As far as i understand it Ogryns and Ratlings are tollerated in the imperium because of their human ancestry and the fact that they have their uses on the battle field. I highly doubt that they would be turned into SM... Too high an honour for a barely human. Ogyns are sometimes neurally enhanced (BONE heads (Biological Ogryn Neural Enhancement)) but that is as close as you'll get, unless i've forgotten something...

They're barely tolerated as it is. Becoming a Space Marine is one of the highest honors that a normal human can have disposed upon him, there's no chance in official fluff.

However, it would make a very interesting and compelling idea for a fan-made chapter, if they accepted certain ab-humans. Like Ogryns, they would be like Space Marine strength and endurance turned up to eleven.

Space Marines only take humans to become Marines, an abhuman would polute the gene-seed and generally be one hellova ugly marine if they did.

They don't even let girls become space marines, so mutant strains of humanity have no chance

Girlie space marines = sisters of battle. Ogryn space marine terminators would be highly amusing to look at

hmmm ratling space marine... would look a lot like a SQUAT.

*Ducks for cover as the bullets start flying*

There're chapters with corruption in their gene-seed that takes place after they become Marines. How about a chapter whose gene-seed is do debased that they can only implant abhumans? They'd have to be renegade though, I can't see the Imperium tolerating that much mutation. Not Chaos, but renegade.

Mechanized Space Corps wrote:Girlie space marines =/= sisters of battle.

Fixed that for you

Sisters are in no way modified and are not integrated into their power armour to the extent that SM are.

Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it. Considering they can only the take the most freakishly hulking of humans on account of the mutations they inflict killing anyone else, Ogryn might be better candidates when it comes down to it. Not that Space Marines ever apply common sense to anything...

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it. Considering they can only the take the most freakishly hulking of humans on account of the mutations they inflict killing anyone else, Ogryn might be better candidates when it comes down to it. Not that Space Marines ever apply common sense to anything...

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is no logic.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it. Considering they can only the take the most freakishly hulking of humans on account of the mutations they inflict killing anyone else, Ogryn might be better candidates when it comes down to it. Not that Space Marines ever apply common sense to anything...

No they are not, Ogryns would need a whole load of work to even get near space marine levels.

To the OP: Geneseed is only stable if used in a tiny fraction of the human population, as abhumans are no longer humans they wouldn't be suitable. Geneseed is a chapter's future and life blood, risking everything they have to implant into abhumans would be seen as horrendous to a chapter.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it.

Er... not really. For one thing, marines can keep counting when they run out of fingers and toes...

Ogryns are quite stupid. Even if there weren't various theological issues involved, you wouldn't want to make one a space marine because marines require a certain amount of intelligence, and ogryns don't make the cut.



And since the topic's been brought up, it suddenly occurred to me the other day how a "female" space marine chapter might come about. I think it was triggered by the LGBT thread that's probably slipped a couple of pages back by now. But you see, there was once a chapter master of a newly minted space marine chapter who made a very rash bet. And only after he'd made the bet did he realize what he'd gotten himself into. In order to win the bet, he summoned the chapter's apothecaries and discussed with them some chapter-wide surgery that was going to be required of all members...

The chapter's been around for a millenia now, and as with all chapters, certain traditions have perpetuated themselves. For instance, there's the rather unusual surgery that all aspirants go through toward the end of their period of adaptation to their geneseed.


/innocent whistle

A Space Marine must be a male Homo Sapien Sapien which abhumans aren't.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Space Marine must be a male Homo Sapien Sapien which abhumans aren't.

corrupt geneseeds might have all sorts of wierd side effects. i can certainly envision one that only works on the stable mutants.

consider this: a planet which is home to a chapter gets cut off by warpstorms and is isolated for hundreds of years. the planet has quite a large abhuman population. the warpstorms and chaos incursions eventually ensure that all marines are killed off and the planet is invaded. the last marines manage to secure the geneseeds left over and are desperate for recruits. the last trained soldiers left are abhumans and after a lot of testing they discover that the seeds have been affected by the warp currents, essentially making them work on abhumans.

The final marines, are desperate enough to implant the seeds and even with a high mortality rate from the implants, some 200 abhumans survive the change into marines.
many years later the storms clear and the rest of the imperium discover the abominations that have survived. they declare them excommunicate and the remaining chapter elements flee the planet, going renegade.

ruleswise the ogryn might work well as a daemon prince and the remaining abhumans as regular chaos marines. i can certainly see this happening. its more believable then female marines imo.

tarnish wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Space Marine must be a male Homo Sapien Sapien which abhumans aren't.

corrupt geneseeds might have all sorts of wierd side effects. i can certainly envision one that only works on the stable mutants.

consider this: a planet which is home to a chapter gets cut off by warpstorms and is isolated for hundreds of years. the planet has quite a large abhuman population. the warpstorms and chaos incursions eventually ensure that all marines are killed off and the planet is invaded. the last marines manage to secure the geneseeds left over and are desperate for recruits. the last trained soldiers left are abhumans and after a lot of testing they discover that the seeds have been affected by the warp currents, essentially making them work on abhumans.

The final marines, are desperate enough to implant the seeds and even with a high mortality rate from the implants, some 200 abhumans survive the change into marines.
many years later the storms clear and the rest of the imperium discover the abominations that have survived. they declare them excommunicate and the remaining chapter elements flee the planet, going renegade.

ruleswise the ogryn might work well as a daemon prince and the remaining abhumans as regular chaos marines. i can certainly see this happening. its more believable then female marines imo.

Even if they were able to make none corrupted space marines they would have to deal with the fact that a thousand other chapters would have a very dim view of them for:

a - the major chance of corruption from being trapped so long
b - using impure stock for recruits going against the tenents of the Adeptus Astartes

Not only would they have Inquisitors bringing the wrath of the Emperor on them, they would get the full support of every/any chapter they ask for help.

tarnish wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Space Marine must be a male Homo Sapien Sapien which abhumans aren't.

corrupt geneseeds might have all sorts of wierd side effects. i can certainly envision one that only works on the stable mutants.

consider this: a planet which is home to a chapter gets cut off by warpstorms and is isolated for hundreds of years. the planet has quite a large abhuman population. the warpstorms and chaos incursions eventually ensure that all marines are killed off and the planet is invaded. the last marines manage to secure the geneseeds left over and are desperate for recruits. the last trained soldiers left are abhumans and after a lot of testing they discover that the seeds have been affected by the warp currents, essentially making them work on abhumans.

The final marines, are desperate enough to implant the seeds and even with a high mortality rate from the implants, some 200 abhumans survive the change into marines.
many years later the storms clear and the rest of the imperium discover the abominations that have survived. they declare them excommunicate and the remaining chapter elements flee the planet, going renegade.

ruleswise the ogryn might work well as a daemon prince and the remaining abhumans as regular chaos marines. i can certainly see this happening. its more believable then female marines imo.

Sounds likt the back story to Chaos Marine Ogres. Geneseed corrupted by warp energy=bad times

Humans who become Space Marines are selected in childhood, not because they are freakishly huge. That comes from the genetic manipulation and transplants they receive as part of their SM training.

Ratlings and Ogryn are both unacceptable for candidates into a SM chapter, not the least of which reasons being because they're mutants.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Even if they were able to make none corrupted space marines they would have to deal with the fact that a thousand other chapters would have a very dim view of them for:

a - the major chance of corruption from being trapped so long
b - using impure stock for recruits going against the tenents of the Adeptus Astartes

Not only would they have Inquisitors bringing the wrath of the Emperor on them, they would get the full support of every/any chapter they ask for help.

read my entry again. the reasons your listing are redundant. being a renegade chapter is bad enough. its not like they can punish them worse for being against More rules then the ordinary renegades.

We already have abhuman Space Marines, they're called Space Wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:Humans who become Space Marines are selected in childhood, not because they are freakishly huge. That comes from the genetic manipulation and transplants they receive as part of their SM training.

This is not the case with every chapter. On many worlds, particularly savage deathworlds, adults that have proved their mettle through survival and/or great deeds are picked for the honor of joining the Astartes.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it.

No they aren't. At all.

Considering they can only the take the most freakishly hulking of humans on account of the mutations they inflict killing anyone else, Ogryn might be better candidates when it comes down to it. Not that Space Marines ever apply common sense to anything...

No they don't. See BA initiates if nothing else, they come from a horribly irradiated planet (or an irradiated moon) and arrive at Angel's Falls exactly as you would expect irradiated tribesmen to look, twisted and ravaged.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it. Considering they can only the take the most freakishly hulking of humans on account of the mutations they inflict killing anyone else, Ogryn might be better candidates when it comes down to it. Not that Space Marines ever apply common sense to anything...

Not so. They don't take hulking humans at all. The space marine modification process starts in early childhood in the vast majority of chapters. Certainly no later than pre pubescent. It just doesn't work if the candidate is too old.

Omegus wrote:We already have abhuman Space Marines, they're called Space Wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Psienesis wrote:Humans who become Space Marines are selected in childhood, not because they are freakishly huge. That comes from the genetic manipulation and transplants they receive as part of their SM training.

This is not the case with every chapter. On many worlds, particularly savage deathworlds, adults that have proved their mettle through survival and/or great deeds are picked for the honor of joining the Astartes.

Perhaps in the fluff, but in the canon, the implantation of the various organs and such that make a person into a Space Marine must begin in adolescence.

Oh wow what an interesting idea. Nonhuman marines. Personally I think its completely plausible. Every new codex releases new chapters and its not like we're aware of every single chapter out there. To say that no loyalist chapters would use ogryns would be ignorantly arrogant imo. What if an Ogryn child performs exceedingly well while a planetless/homeless/battlebargin' chapter just happens to be there with a bit of a liberal chapter master?
It's not like space marines are pure anyway. You got puppies, vampires, cyborgs, half slowed failed cloning experiments, ect.
I think it would be very interesting to see an ogry post marine process. For someone who's destined to be stupid and bulky, I wonder what a gene seed would do to him.

...Hairy-footed Ratling Astartes? Emperor preserve us!

Eumerin wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it.

Er... not really. For one thing, marines can keep counting when they run out of fingers and toes...

[citation needed]

what about Ogryn in power armor w/o implants. how srong would they be?

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it.

Er... not really. For one thing, marines can keep counting when they run out of fingers and toes...

[citation needed]

Nork Dedog is the smartest Ogryn ever. He can sign his name (N is for Nork) and count to 4. Thumbs confuse him as per IG 'dex.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Space Marines are basically just artificial Ogryn given some shiny toys, when it comes down to it.

Er... not really. For one thing, marines can keep counting when they run out of fingers and toes...

[citation needed]

Nork Dedog is the smartest Ogryn ever. He can sign his name (N is for Nork) and count to 4. Thumbs confuse him as per IG 'dex.

I meant a citation of a Space Marine counting unaided by reference objects.

Orgyn Terminators...they would probably break the game, but I would honestly love to see it.