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I'm thinking of getting back into WHFB after not playing since 5th or 6th edition. I play 40k atm but not WHFB.

I want to play a knight heavy army as I used to. What do I need to know to build up and play such an army effectively?

I would suggest go with empire brets are not very effective sadlly but here is what I know.

You need trebuchets they are cheap and effective.

Lots of men at arms to hold the line.

Knights with lances.

Killy lords and heroes.

Magic you need it 2 casters would be good.

Um some luck and a lot of skill.

Last game i played against brets at 3k ended with half my army just a little over 1500 pts slaughter my opponents army by turn 4. As a side note his terbuchets only got 2 kills they constantly misfired. That and tz magic really messed him up made his wizards explode a few times.

No point in suggesting other armies, its Brets since I have a bunch already and would require little to get up past 2k points.

Comon Bret vets, give me your best!

Do I use:
Pegasus Knights? Griffon hero?
Knights errant vs KotR
Questing knights? Grail knights?
Do I need archers? Just go with Trebuchet?
How many blocks of infantry if any?
What would a good 2k or 2.5k list look like>?

KotR did better in the games that I have seen.

Pegasus knights are effective for war machine hunting.

Grail knights are nasty they do alot of damage take those guys.

40 ish men at arms with maybe a hero on foot is useful. That holds a turn or 2 long enough for your knights to help out.

cowpow16 wrote:I would suggest go with empire brets are not very effective sadlly but here is what I know.

That's probably the worst advice I've ever heard. Ignore him.

I've played and won with brets a few times this edition, from what I understand the concepts are still the same, hit a point in the enemy lines with the force of a fist from an angry god then break through to avoid the flank charge. Alternativley you can use a anvil unit of knights and charge everyone who charges them.

Trebuchets are good. Big lances of knights are in vogue now as opposed to MSU.

The reason I said empire was because an empire knight army beat me several times and I havent been able to win against it and I havent had many issues with brets.

cowpow16 wrote:The reason I said empire was because an empire knight army beat me several times and I havent been able to win against it and I havent had many issues with brets.

2+ with blessing is more often than not, better than 1+ with no blessing.
Peg knights can vanguard and do all kinds of hurtful stuff in the backfield.
The weakness of brets seems to be lore selection and enemy steadfast.
With trebuchets as rare, and very limited spells to take on enemy hordes, steadfast is a problem.
Men at arms can help, but are low grade troops, and you might struggle to win combat in the rounds that you take steadfast away.

A friend of mine has been doing well with heavens (mostly for comet and the signature spells -1 leadership), supported by 3 big infantry blocks, 2 trebs, peg nights, and a few lances.
Brets really take combined arms now, because pure knights don't break steadfast, and your own infantry is in an awkward middle area, not total fodder, not good enough to be called good.

That said, I've also seen damsel spamming work well. All with lore of beasts for the signature spell (+1 to cast, because they targets cav).
Even after the charge, S4 guys with S4 mounts (+1 S/T to the whole model), does decent damage and is pretty tough to kill.
Free MR doesn't hurt either.

-Matt

Dracos wrote:No point in suggesting other armies, its Brets since I have a bunch already and would require little to get up past 2k points.
Knights errant vs KotR

Unless you have something specific in mind for the Knights Errant i generally use KotR
also: http://www.roundtable-bretonnia.org/

I am pretty certain Brets can take Lore of Life too, and Dwellers Below is fantastic for killing off big hordes of guys. Throwing Regen on your own blocks is also handy. I don't know if it is the best lore for Brets, but it is certainly a mighty one for lots of armies.

You might want to check out Once Bitten's YouTube reports on Brets. ~5-6 of them if I recall, and all pretty interesting in how he uses his Peg knights and lances. Plus he talks with the opponent a lot about mistakes which can be really informative.

trebuchet and bowmen with falming arrows....welcome to bretonia

Take 2 Trebuchets, 15 Knights Errant with the errantry banner. Also take lances of 12 KOTR, run 1 Lv. 1 beast caster with the base spell, take a lv. 4 with life, also take a 50 man hoard of pesants.

I have seen one trick which gives you a unit of Knights which can chop its way through big blocks, and thus far its the only way I've seen which you can do this without taking massive blocks of Peasants. You take 3 Paladins (they are cheap so its pretty easy), and give them gear which lets them chop through infantry for multi rounds of combat without losing survivability. Then in a big bus of Knights you go 3 wide, and then in the first round of combat you 'Make Way' with all 3 Paladins to replace the front rank (its the only way you can displace command). On the charge you still hit hard with the entire unit, but more importantly you can actually grind your way though Steadfast blocks because even without any upgrades/magic items 9 S4 attacks will do some damage. In return they will be getting a very low number of guys in BtB, have to allocate attacks separately and get through the 2+ save with 2 wounds before they can even attack any of the regular Knights. With a big unit of Knights behind them this means you can break Steadfast even against massive units, you have 6 ranks, should kill 1 of theirs a turn (at least) and they won't kill any of yours. The only catch of course is that these kinds of units have insanely large flanks, but if you can protect them these units are very hard to deal with.

How hard it is to break down infantry is massively overstated - just pick your combats carefully, aim to combo charge deep units to he'll to knock down their ranks, then break them. Still focus on normal Bret strategy. MSU knights in units of 6 are still very good.

Your magic is better now. Still a good book.

I can only comment on what a friend with brets is doing. He is yet undefeated in 8th edition, that said he is the best player I've ever seen, so take it with a grain of salt.

Units of 9-12 knights to really take advantage of lance formation. KotR scare me a lot more than knights errant. One largish block of either peasants or yeoman or whatever they are with halberds, take a lvl 1 or lvl 2 with them with beasts. It actually makes them fairly killy, and usually life with the damsel on horse. Trebuchets and archers for thinning enemy ranks. 2 or 3 peg knights are great for back line shenigans.

As far as lords and heros go. He'll run heroic killing blow lord, or a lord who is a beast in a challenge. Usually a paladin on a peg as well with crown I believe, get him in a challenge and he can help stall an enemy block long enough to either set up a multi charge, or allow you to get out of another combat. Really it all comes down to picking your combats wisely. Its usually better to charge 30 orcs than 100 gobbos lol.

One of my biggest frustrations in the world with KOR was their leadership. The NEEDED a lord with them in order to be a tad more dependable, and once a game, you could depend on them to fail a fear test, and not charge

Also: When dealing with WS4 or better, KOTR and KE were exactly the same, 4+ to hit, so the cheaper was the better in that case.

In today's environment, With re-rolls for leadership, you can mitigate the negative impact the KE's with Impetuous bring to the table by having a BSB within 12 inches during those key moments that you don't want to get baited.
You can also use KE's as a blunt trama instrument to try to thin ranks

The big question has to become: Is 4 points per model worth it for what's ostensibly +1 ws in an all elite army where points are at a premium, the answer was unequivicalbly NO last edition. This edition, I'm not so sure.

Based on the experience and suggestions here, this is what I'm thinking.


2x 12 kotR units (one will have bSB)
2x 6 knights errant to block flanks
1x 9 Grail knight units plus 3x paladin (1 designed for challenges)
1x large peasants w/sorc to tarpit
2x small archers
2x trebuchets

how does that sound? what point size am I looking at approx?

The grail knight unit sounds ridiculous, and you really don't need three large knight units.

If there is one thing you need to remember with Brets is NEVER forget to pray. Commonly forgotten by new and forgetful generals alike the wards saves praying gives are key to a effective Bret list. Whatever you do don't go into battle without the favor of the lady of the lake

I made up an army list here. Please have a look through it and offer suggestions. I made it for 2k and there is a little play left in there. I went with 1 big knight unit with 4! characters in it (inc bsb) and a few smaller ones to support. Tell me what you think