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Or you know, just don't waste a relic slot on something that'll generate 2 more damage/turn on a knight in melee than daemonic axe will on a DP.

Edit: Without the additional detriment of possibly hurting yourself. Just go for a Skullreaver DP if you really wanna go knight-hunting with it. The relic being D2 really hurts it.

Edit 2: 2 more damage than a regular axe.

Normally I wouldn't post this here, but since this thread was actually a big part of my learning to love and really embrace my Chaos army, I thought I'd share.

No real epiphanies for readers of this thread, but still fun to see something of mine posted on FLG!

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2019/11/10/send-me-in-coach-2nd-tier-units-in-competitive-40k/

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Normally I wouldn't post this here, but since this thread was actually a big part of my learning to love and really embrace my Chaos army, I thought I'd share.

No real epiphanies for readers of this thread, but still fun to see something of mine posted on FLG!

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2019/11/10/send-me-in-coach-2nd-tier-units-in-competitive-40k/

Possessed are pretty rad and I'd like to do something with them someday, how did you get them to S8 in your article though?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Normally I wouldn't post this here, but since this thread was actually a big part of my learning to love and really embrace my Chaos army, I thought I'd share.

No real epiphanies for readers of this thread, but still fun to see something of mine posted on FLG!

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2019/11/10/send-me-in-coach-2nd-tier-units-in-competitive-40k/

you compared them to tofu.
WHY? HOW DARE YOU ABUSE THE STEW ! HOW DARE YOU!

Oh and yes in fun meta or random meta, or friend meta possesed are worth the lols if you invest in them. Somewhat.
Then again so is the undieable wall of Corsairs

@Gidun - It was actually written a while ago and only just posted, so away from my notes I think it was Greater Possessed buff, Diabolical Strength psychic power, and.... um... something else? I'll figure it out and ask them to post a clarification.

@Not Online!!! - A thousand pardons! I actually don't have a fondness for tofu, but I know culinarily that it famously tastes like whatever you cook into it. :-p Made sense at the time!

I draw the lines of crimes willing to comit in the name of the dark gods on stews and soups.

Otoh and the more bright side, as soon as Starters are available i have no a little build side project planned that would fit your love for possessed.



I rekon RC for the trait and free relic would be a good starting point for a daemonkin of flame army.

So that Daemon weapon leak was neat. Zaal is useless on a Lord, but the applications for a Daemon Prince are terribly practical.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
@Gidun - It was actually written a while ago and only just posted, so away from my notes I think it was Greater Possessed buff, Diabolical Strength psychic power, and.... um... something else? I'll figure it out and ask them to post a clarification.

@Not Online!!! - A thousand pardons! I actually don't have a fondness for tofu, but I know culinarily that it famously tastes like whatever you cook into it. :-p Made sense at the time!

Well, I mean. Diabolical strength was the thing I kind of wanted to point out. It doesn't buff the entire unit but rather a single model in it.

Gidun wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
@Gidun - It was actually written a while ago and only just posted, so away from my notes I think it was Greater Possessed buff, Diabolical Strength psychic power, and.... um... something else? I'll figure it out and ask them to post a clarification.

@Not Online!!! - A thousand pardons! I actually don't have a fondness for tofu, but I know culinarily that it famously tastes like whatever you cook into it. :-p Made sense at the time!

Well, I mean. Diabolical strength was the thing I kind of wanted to point out. It doesn't buff the entire unit but rather a single model in it.

Someone else in the comments actually posted a way to (correctly) do Str8, but when I get home I'll pull out my notes. I'll ask them to let me add a correction to my gak-up if I'm wrong. :-) Thanks.

You can hit S11 on Possessed.

I would say the new relic sword is actually /better/ on a Chaos Lord than it is a DP. Give that lord a jump pack, and he'll absolutely blend in CC. The point of the relic by the way, is not an anti-tank weapon. It's much better suited to blend stuff like Primaris or other multi-wound infantry. It completely negates their save, deals 2 flat damage, and on average will probably have enough strength to wound on 2s.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I would say the new relic sword is actually /better/ on a Chaos Lord than it is a DP. Give that lord a jump pack, and he'll absolutely blend in CC. The point of the relic by the way, is not an anti-tank weapon. It's much better suited to blend stuff like Primaris or other multi-wound infantry. It completely negates their save, deals 2 flat damage, and on average will probably have enough strength to wound on 2s.

Gotta disagree. With the naturally higher Strength value and attacks of the Prince, you're more likely to get that wounding on a 2+.

Not really, +1 from a trait, 3 on average and you got your 8 strength, 10 with diabolic strength. Don't even need the trait on a juggerlord, but in that case you could even skip the power assuming a nearby herald or so to get to 10. They stand to gain more than a prince considering it costs you a relic.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Gidun wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
@Gidun - It was actually written a while ago and only just posted, so away from my notes I think it was Greater Possessed buff, Diabolical Strength psychic power, and.... um... something else? I'll figure it out and ask them to post a clarification.

@Not Online!!! - A thousand pardons! I actually don't have a fondness for tofu, but I know culinarily that it famously tastes like whatever you cook into it. :-p Made sense at the time!

Well, I mean. Diabolical strength was the thing I kind of wanted to point out. It doesn't buff the entire unit but rather a single model in it.

Someone else in the comments actually posted a way to (correctly) do Str8, but when I get home I'll pull out my notes. I'll ask them to let me add a correction to my gak-up if I'm wrong. :-) Thanks.

Possessed bomb doesnt really work. You need up to 8 (!) support characters for maximum buffs. Thats up to 1000 pts.

 p5freak wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Gidun wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
@Gidun - It was actually written a while ago and only just posted, so away from my notes I think it was Greater Possessed buff, Diabolical Strength psychic power, and.... um... something else? I'll figure it out and ask them to post a clarification.

@Not Online!!! - A thousand pardons! I actually don't have a fondness for tofu, but I know culinarily that it famously tastes like whatever you cook into it. :-p Made sense at the time!

Well, I mean. Diabolical strength was the thing I kind of wanted to point out. It doesn't buff the entire unit but rather a single model in it.

Someone else in the comments actually posted a way to (correctly) do Str8, but when I get home I'll pull out my notes. I'll ask them to let me add a correction to my gak-up if I'm wrong. :-) Thanks.

Possessed bomb doesnt really work. You need up to 8 (!) support characters for maximum buffs. Thats up to 1000 pts.

You also don't need max Strength.
Often the S6 bracket is good enough.
That said , allready getting to the S6 bracket requires ressources that just are too costly imo in the context of things.

Not Online!!! wrote:

That said , allready getting to the S6 bracket requires ressources that just are too costly imo in the context of things.

Agreed. You need at least 4 support characters and stratagems to buff them to good levels. Thats ~400 pts. you could invest in chaincannon havocs, a rhino, and a chaos lord, prescience sorceror.

I feel it's a bit of a waste of time to bring a unit if you have to bring like four or five other units to make it even semi-viable.

It is OTT/gimmick to bring a unit that depends upon loads of other units, but in some lists, you might well be bringing those other units anyway

Heralds are cheap, and in the absence of a Combat Doctrines equivalent a Nurgle/Khorne/Tzeentch Battalion or Slaanesh Vanguard/Outriders is a solid army element with decent synergy with like Daemon Engines and Oblits.

Greater Possessed are a handy accompaniment to Maulerfiends and Disco Lords, helping their CC attacks go up a wounding bracket. If Venomcrawlers get a price cut to compete with bigger stuff, likewise their shooting.

I suspect mono Daemonkin armies will remain viable, what with the benefits of trees, and Nurgle & Slaaneshi Loci. When you’ve already got a bunch of stuff that happens to boost Daemonic Astartes Strength and a bunch of high tier units, Possessed can be viable.

If we get upgraded Traits, that could be a game changer for them.

 blood reaper wrote:
I feel it's a bit of a waste of time to bring a unit if you have to bring like four or five other units to make it even semi-viable.

tbf the whole schtick of the chaos dex IS atm this stacking off buffs and in that respect possessed don't have the worst outlook, technically, until you realise that you pay 20 pts for a primaris without a gun and no consistency.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

That said , allready getting to the S6 bracket requires ressources that just are too costly imo in the context of things.

Agreed. You need at least 4 support characters and stratagems to buff them to good levels. Thats ~400 pts. you could invest in chaincannon havocs, a rhino, and a chaos lord, prescience sorceror.

Assuming you want s6:
You'd need 2 Greater possesed so 140 pts.
Assuming you also want to get into melee you need warptime, and the right trait, either AL or RC. So another 90+ for a sorcerer AND you need the squad to be big enough to potentially swallow decent Overwatch. So about 10 dudes, which ammounts to 200 pts.
Further you want to reroll charges for 10 pts and potentially fight 2 times.

so we are talking about 440+ pts depending on psy weapon and stratagems, which will also have a cost further points.
RC would be cheapest option overall with probably the biggest ammount of Reach for the correspoinding unit of possesed BUT, assuming 1 command reroll for psy or charge aswell as fighting twice are 4 CP which are about 35 pts each.
So the actual cost for the list would be closer to 550-600 which has however not solved the other issues regarding CP and other options wanting CP aswell.-

Not Online!!! wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:
I feel it's a bit of a waste of time to bring a unit if you have to bring like four or five other units to make it even semi-viable.

tbf the whole schtick of the chaos dex IS atm this stacking off buffs and in that respect possessed don't have the worst outlook, technically, until you realise that you pay 20 pts for a primaris without a gun and no consistency.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

That said , allready getting to the S6 bracket requires ressources that just are too costly imo in the context of things.

Agreed. You need at least 4 support characters and stratagems to buff them to good levels. Thats ~400 pts. you could invest in chaincannon havocs, a rhino, and a chaos lord, prescience sorceror.

Assuming you want s6:
You'd need 2 Greater possesed so 140 pts.
Assuming you also want to get into melee you need warptime, and the right trait, either AL or RC. So another 90+ for a sorcerer AND you need the squad to be big enough to potentially swallow decent Overwatch. So about 10 dudes, which ammounts to 200 pts.
Further you want to reroll charges for 10 pts and potentially fight 2 times.

so we are talking about 440+ pts depending on psy weapon and stratagems, which will also have a cost further points.
RC would be cheapest option overall with probably the biggest ammount of Reach for the correspoinding unit of possesed BUT, assuming 1 command reroll for psy or charge aswell as fighting twice are 4 CP which are about 35 pts each.
So the actual cost for the list would be closer to 550-600 which has however not solved the other issues regarding CP and other options wanting CP aswell.-

20pts is a very valid concern. I mean, effectively they’re Primaris with a power axe and +1M, but agreed, they’re overcosted, and certainly unlikely to dominate hardcore competitive without strolling into a vulnerable meta.

Point of order on the Greater Possessed - their bonuses don’t stack, and Possessed are already S5, so you just need one (and only one) to his S6.

Regarding Sorcerer Warptime buy-in, if you’re CSM and not Khorne, you’re probably taking a Sorcerer with Warptime and either Prescience or a deity endurance spell. Dark Hereticus is really good, and the question for most of us is not whether or not we spend the points on a Sorcerer, it’s which unit we cast on. A horde of Possessed that can advance and charge thanks to a Gnarlmaw or Herald of Slaanesh is absolutely a viable first turn target, outside of hardcore competitive. With a Soulforged Pack, Maulerfiends can make the T1 touchdown without WT, so Possessed can really add to the horror there.

Whilst not top tier, it is the sort of themed Daemonkin list that disrupts a local meta without being frustrating - playing against it is a fun experience in survival and deployment. And, unlike a Defiler or such, it can conga line so that the Sorcerer doesn’t need to get into DtW range to cast it (notwithstanding BT scouts, assuming that they regain their original Strat, and that Crusaders don’t *replace* both OG troops choices as they used to) (some SoB or AdMech lists can definitely hard Counter, though).

 lindsay40k wrote:


20pts is a very valid concern. I mean, effectively they’re Primaris with a power axe and +1M, but agreed, they’re overcosted, and certainly unlikely to dominate hardcore competitive without strolling into a vulnerable meta.

Point of order on the Greater Possessed - their bonuses don’t stack, and Possessed are already S5, so you just need one (and only one) to his S6.

Regarding Sorcerer Warptime buy-in, if you’re CSM and not Khorne, you’re probably taking a Sorcerer with Warptime and either Prescience or a deity endurance spell. Dark Hereticus is really good, and the question for most of us is not whether or not we spend the points on a Sorcerer, it’s which unit we cast on. A horde of Possessed that can advance and charge thanks to a Gnarlmaw or Herald of Slaanesh is absolutely a viable first turn target, outside of hardcore competitive. With a Soulforged Pack, Maulerfiends can make the T1 touchdown without WT, so Possessed can really add to the horror there.

Whilst not top tier, it is the sort of themed Daemonkin list that disrupts a local meta without being frustrating - playing against it is a fun experience in survival and deployment. And, unlike a Defiler or such, it can conga line so that the Sorcerer doesn’t need to get into DtW range to cast it (notwithstanding BT scouts, assuming that they regain their original Strat, and that Crusaders don’t *replace* both OG troops choices as they used to) (some SoB or AdMech lists can definitely hard Counter, though).

Yep, forgot they don't stack, would probably need more daemon support then indeed.

However the issue still remains, beyond beeing fun, slinging a bunch of wannabee-primarismarines-cosplaying-daemons at the enemy that can't even figure out propperly how to fight in melee half the time, whilest fun is still frankly a lot less good then even flinging other stuff at faces.And as much as it is fun it is as agrivating when you just threw in essence 400 pts in the bin when you roll a one on attacks.

Not to mention the hard counters. However the worst designcrime in the equation is the MoP/ appostle and how they interact with possesed. THere's not much point in a MoP, (beyond trolling psyker heavy armies, if you get him in reach) when even a normal sorcerer offers just better alternatives.
Whilest the apostle himself is kinda , wierd, anyways.
I do hope for a price reductions for both the apostle and the MoP because they are conceptually great but so long you are not khorne there isn't really that much of a point in the apostle whilest the MoP is just atm kinda obsolete in a way, partially because his discipline is too specific for a unit type that is questionable in performance.

 Roknar wrote:
Not really, +1 from a trait, 3 on average and you got your 8 strength, 10 with diabolic strength. Don't even need the trait on a juggerlord, but in that case you could even skip the power assuming a nearby herald or so to get to 10. They stand to gain more than a prince considering it costs you a relic.

See, you might not even need Diabolic Strength on the Daemon Prince 1/3 of the time is a MAJOR difference though. He's just more independent because of his stats. If you need to cast something, great. Lords NEED the casting though and because points are always tight (you're gonna be dedicating your Sorcerers to Chainhavocs for example), that independence cannot be understated. It's part of the same reason Disco Lords are great. They don't NEED the support, but it's there just in case.

Agreed that the Possessed-relevant support characters are also overcosted rn

Rolling a 1 for attacks really isn’t that much of an issue when you’ve got two ways to reroll it, a +1S&A Strat, and Hateful Assault

Main problem IMO is 1D attacks. Nurgle Possessed in a Daemonkin list can work around that, again without a huge amount of work (the Locus is a general benefit that Daemon Engines also love, and Virulent Blessing is as standard in Nurgle Daemonkin as Warptime is in CSM)

I quite like a T1 charge with EC Possessed & fiends. Striking first with a spiky tarpit that can gain +2A is a nasty surprise, and if your opponent Counter-charges they’re feeding Hateful Assault

I for one am not really hopeful about any significant changes, as sad as that may be. I've pretty much given up on any ideas of doing Chaos despite the army being my favorite, since I can't make them work the way I feel they should work (you know, with actual Chaos Marines) and I don't want to play them the way they're good because it never seemed to fit and I have a penchant for the "Undivided" Legions, Iron Warriors in particular so mixing and matching legion traits or "counts as" FOTM tactics don't cut the mustard.

Wayniac wrote:
I for one am not really hopeful about any significant changes, as sad as that may be. I've pretty much given up on any ideas of doing Chaos despite the army being my favorite, since I can't make them work the way I feel they should work (you know, with actual Chaos Marines) and I don't want to play them the way they're good because it never seemed to fit and I have a penchant for the "Undivided" Legions, Iron Warriors in particular so mixing and matching legion traits or "counts as" FOTM tactics don't cut the mustard.

until recently i run a list that had 40 CSM , 5 chosen, 5 havocs, 5 termites, and corresponding charachters aswell as some Hellbrutes and a defiler.

It did quite well unexpectedly, (was run as RC) until new marines showed up with the general -1 AP + other effects. Which kicked me back to field fodder from souped in R&H units.
It's especially agrivaiting that the superior tac marines pays less then a CSM.

Hi all i’m a new chaos player and i have 2 question on this list just to improve my play style.
1 why he run mixed legion (world eaters, thousand sons and crimson slaughter in this case) if he lose all the benefits ?
2 what advantage i get for mark of slaanesh on my lord discordant ? I find that rules in daemons codex ?

Marking a unit only gives them Keywords for CSM.

It lets them be eligible for some Stratagems and aura bonuses, but doesn't give anything by itself.

I run khorne berserkers and pr3dators. Any of them good? I use the +1 to wound and damage strategem.

Since you can't do 4 Predators, they're largely pointless just for the Stratagem.

Nasty wrote:

Spoiler:

Hi all i’m a new chaos player and i have 2 question on this list just to improve my play style.
1 why he run mixed legion (world eaters, thousand sons and crimson slaughter in this case) if he lose all the benefits ?
2 what advantage i get for mark of slaanesh on my lord discordant ? I find that rules in daemons codex ?

Hi, Nasty, welcome to the good guys
1 - He doesn’t lose *all* the benefits. See that third detachment? It’s unlocked the CSM Codex Stratagems. Now, none of the first detachment get their Legion Trait, but the World Eater can still use the Scorn of Sorcery Stratagem (handy when facing Magnus and he rolls a 14 for Smite), and making him a LoE is the cheapest way to add the third mandatory HQ unit in the Supreme Command. Ahriman has bonuses to cast just for turning up, and doesn’t necessarily need the TS Legion Trait. The Sorcerer can’t even use the CS Stratagem, due to a quirk of RAW, but is able to take the excellent Delightful Agonies spell - which Ahriman (and Morty) cannot. Mortarian is, well… Mortarion. Ironically, he has nothing that benefits from the DG Legion Trait. He makes plenty enough impact without leading a load of his kids.
2 - Mark of Slaanesh on LD does enable it to benefit from Chaos Daemons stuff that can be cast on Slaanesh Daemon units - for instance, that Epitome’s Hysterical Frenzy, but doesn’t bring much advantage within the CSM Codex. The third detachment is a Flawless Host one, from the Vigilus expansion, which makes them all pretty lethal in close quarters - and, incidentally, obliged to be Slaaneshi.