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So this is as it sounds. Its me forcing my friend to give up in one turn. Here is how it happened:

All you really need to know is that it was dawn of war deployment and my deceiver was up front and i went first. His list was alot of boyz (no trukk) gazkhul in a battle wagon and some lootas. The deceiver used his power and pinned one of his squads of boyz, this also happened to be surrounding his Battle-wagon with gazkhul in it so now he couldn't move it next turn because of the unmoving friendly models. He knew this and immediately threw down his tape measure and said I "won"

The next game was the same deal only the deployment was 12" from the table edge (forgot what its called atm, its 5 in the morning) and my destroyers wrecked his battle wagon first turn, once again he gave up and said i won immediately.

From my perspective, his problem is relying to heavily on that one battle wagon with Gazkhul in it. Even with his KFF it still will die some times, when it does, he just gives up. On a side note could you guys give him any help? I know he will read this so just leave it in a comment, know he just doesnt want to play me ever again and it makes me kinda sad.


NOTE: to any moderator that reads this: i was having trouble deciding where to post this because its half battle report and half asking me for help, which should be in tactics, feel free to move it as you see fit so i'll know for the future.

Sounds to me like he needs to rearrange his squads too. Correct me if I'm wrong but two things come screaming to mind. First, would be that if he had more than 10 boyz in a single squad, I believe they become fearless... Second, if I recall, Deceiver's ability doesn't work on fearless models.

Again, I could be wrong.

Another thing, seems your friend just gives up too easily. He's playing Orks, things are going to explode. The point of armies like that (IG and Nid are included) are built to take mass amounts of losses and still punch into the enemy lines with harsh force.

I would be curious to see his army list, that would probably be the first place to look at improvements. Second, would be attitude. No reason to quit after one turn... Be an Ork! Charge across the field screaming "WAAAAAAAGH!!!!" until either you lose or your enemy is dead (Of course there is more to it than this... but you get the idea )

The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

I feel for your friend, as I too relied heavily heavily on my precious battle wagons when I first got them. It's a great feeling to cruise across the board in 50 million guns duct taped to a set of wheels
I'm not altogether sure why he ceded the first game, the loss of a turn of movement is a setback, but not a monolithic one, especially against the short range of most necrons fire power. Now, since you beat orks twice in a row with necrons, I'll choose to assume you are a good necron player, but still, if an ork player waagh!'s right, he'll smash your lines like chalk. ]

Since it is the middle of the morning, Ideally one of us isnt going to be on to reply, so I'll explain a few situations.
In the case that he's worried by the deciever/monolith, advice typically is to ignore them, and trigger phase out. This can appear a daunting task, but most games I've seen with necrons have resulted in a phase out. (Saddly the other times end with me taking a gauss shot to the skull )
If he's worried about losing to many boys before he gets to the grand melee, he should either rely more on cover, play a big mek/kff, or do what most orks do: get more boys.
If it always appears that he cedes after the loss of the battle wagon, he needs to put less faith in it. They're one of the more "fun" vehicles in the game, do to all-out innovation (and I use that word generously) they bring to bare. But because of that same orkiness, an ork player has to be ready to lose it at any time, look at his opponent with a grin, and yell "send in more boys!" and redouble their efforts.
I can't be exactly compassionate here because it is the internet and I think that breaks the rules, but if the battle wagon is a must, he'll have to recognize the trade of protection and maneuverability. All else i can really say is that thraka is a bit of a waste in a game that small. He's great, don't get me wrong, but for 225 points, I can get the kff and upwards of 20 boys. But I'm a bit of a sado-masochist, and I play green tides like mad so... Maybe don't listen to me
Hope this helped.

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

Just checked, and low and behold, you are correct. However, you would still be taking that pinning test on leadership 10... So failure shouldn't be common.

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Your friend just gave much too easily.

When playing with Orks, one should expect things to blow out. BWs are not invincible.

He gave up to easily. No-one likes a quitter.

Bloodhorror wrote:

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Completely incorrect. Necron FAQ:

"Q: What effect does the C'tan deceive ability have on fearless units?"
"A: The C'tan deceive ability can be used to force even fearless units to take a pinning test, and they will go to ground if they fail it. If a fearless unit is forced to make a Morale test and fails it, it will take a wound (AP-) for each point it fails the test by."

Thank you all for the replies, you all make some great points! Most of you are correct in saying that the loss of one BW shouldn't put him down so easy, the problem was, even in the case of the pinning checks taking away his movement, he then had to put up with 30 destroyer shots, 2 pie-plates (monoliths) and a deceiver which can just do it again next turn if hes lucky if he loses his BW. So yea, he is now one of the 6 people who refuse to play me no matter where i go, and i play necrons!

Pathetic. There is more to an ork army than one battlewagon, and any of it contacting any necron unit causes that unit to die. Usually instantly, sometimes over a few turns.

omerakk wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Completely incorrect. Necron FAQ:

"Q: What effect does the C'tan deceive ability have on fearless units?"
"A: The C'tan deceive ability can be used to force even fearless units to take a pinning test, and they will go to ground if they fail it. If a fearless unit is forced to make a Morale test and fails it, it will take a wound (AP-) for each point it fails the test by."

Yep. They fear him SO HARD, they die.

Laugh out Loud

Platuan4th wrote:

omerakk wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Completely incorrect. Necron FAQ:

"Q: What effect does the C'tan deceive ability have on fearless units?"
"A: The C'tan deceive ability can be used to force even fearless units to take a pinning test, and they will go to ground if they fail it. If a fearless unit is forced to make a Morale test and fails it, it will take a wound (AP-) for each point it fails the test by."

Yep. They fear him SO HARD, they die.

Well bugger me...

I stand corrected!

My Apologies and this is a handy one to know..

and at most, your looking at causing... 2 wounds to a fearless unit, as usually, there LD 10 !

With orks you gotta expect some boys to die and some vehicles to explode. always good to mob them together but never close to the vehicles. so he should put vehicles out front or have them walk on after moving the vehicles forward.

Oi sez, da more Eksplosions, Da betta! Don't really matta' if deyz derez or ourz.

Bloodhorror wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

omerakk wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Completely incorrect. Necron FAQ:

"Q: What effect does the C'tan deceive ability have on fearless units?"
"A: The C'tan deceive ability can be used to force even fearless units to take a pinning test, and they will go to ground if they fail it. If a fearless unit is forced to make a Morale test and fails it, it will take a wound (AP-) for each point it fails the test by."

Yep. They fear him SO HARD, they die.

Well bugger me...

I stand corrected!

My Apologies and this is a handy one to know..

and at most, your looking at causing... 2 wounds to a fearless unit, as usually, there LD 10 !

Or possibly 5 wounds... if there's Pariahs close by. (Drop their Ld to 7)

Tai-Pan wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

omerakk wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Completely incorrect. Necron FAQ:

"Q: What effect does the C'tan deceive ability have on fearless units?"
"A: The C'tan deceive ability can be used to force even fearless units to take a pinning test, and they will go to ground if they fail it. If a fearless unit is forced to make a Morale test and fails it, it will take a wound (AP-) for each point it fails the test by."

Yep. They fear him SO HARD, they die.

Well bugger me...

I stand corrected!

My Apologies and this is a handy one to know..

and at most, your looking at causing... 2 wounds to a fearless unit, as usually, there LD 10 !

Or possibly 5 wounds... if there's Pariahs close by. (Drop their Ld to 7)

Who uses pariahs?

and isn't that only Pyskers that get affected???

Sounds to me like your friend needs a good kick up the backside! Why give up.... TWICE!? Surely he should have learned first time around.

OP, tell your friend to drop the Battlewagon. Clearly he loves it too much to focus on the rest of his army, so make him drop it. Chances are he'll realise he's got other units to use and he might play til turn 2

I have only ever conceded a game on turn 1 ONCE in my life, and only because the game was such a complete mis-match that it was clear that I would lose. I was playing an Alaitoc themed list, and my opponent had a bunch of wytches that assaulted me on turn 1 using the old Dark Eldar codex. Once he moved and disembarked right in front of me I extended the hand and told him "nice move, no need to continue" and we switched lists and played another game.

I have no sympathy for people that quit on turn 1 and refuse to play that player again unless they are doing something extremely d-baggy. Your friend needs to sack up and re-think his strategy, and sometimes you just have to lose on turn 1 to realize your tactic isn't as good as you thought. Conceding on turn 1 is not in-and-of-itself a bad thing if it's clear that you have lost. Sometimes it's better to just clean up and play another game, but getting mad over it is just childish.

I have, several times.

Virus Outbreak on an IG army does that.

Gotta say, he needs some more confidence. And losing with orks is quite often funner than winning with them, anyway.


WAAAAAAAAAAGH!

He could try not boxing in his vehicles. Dumb idea.

He could also try spreading his units a bit and piling them forwards. Deciever can only get one unit at a time, and won't like being run over by the battlewagon

Battlewagons are nice, for ork stuff, but there ARE other units in the army. Stormboyz can really wreck a Necron's day, and are fast enough to catch and murder destroyers.

Shouldn't have quit, even though it is MUCH more fun to win, it is still very fun to play

woodbok wrote:

Tai-Pan wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

omerakk wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:

omerakk wrote:The Deceiver's ability does work on fearless units. He can either force them to take fearless saves if they fail the leadership test, or, he can force them to take a pinning test. One of the few times in the game you'll ever see fearless units get pinned

He most certainatly does not make them take Fearless Saves!

He just makes them take a LD check, flee a bit if they fail and then they will regroup automatically.

Completely incorrect. Necron FAQ:

"Q: What effect does the C'tan deceive ability have on fearless units?"
"A: The C'tan deceive ability can be used to force even fearless units to take a pinning test, and they will go to ground if they fail it. If a fearless unit is forced to make a Morale test and fails it, it will take a wound (AP-) for each point it fails the test by."

Yep. They fear him SO HARD, they die.

Well bugger me...

I stand corrected!

My Apologies and this is a handy one to know..

and at most, your looking at causing... 2 wounds to a fearless unit, as usually, there LD 10 !

Or possibly 5 wounds... if there's Pariahs close by. (Drop their Ld to 7)

Who uses pariahs?

I do. They are actually quite usefull.

All enemies in 12" ld drop to 7
All psykers in 6" have to do a ld test at the start of their turn, if failed they run away.

Not to mention their weapons is quite nice, A combination of a lords warscythe and the immortals gun. S5 T5. It's beautiful when you get a unit of pariahs in combat with a squad of TH/SS termies. The pariahs strike before them and wipe them out. The look on a persons face when you tell them they can't use the 2+ or the 3++ is priceless.

Pariahs can be useful.

They lack WBB or the ability to be teleported, but on rare occasions they can actually be a game-turner.

They are hideously expensive, and rather fragile (and the modesl cost a small fortune) but if you walk them upfield behind a Lith it helps protect them a bit.

Generally they tend to get owned by folk with higher initiative and power weapons (T5 helps a lot vs S 3 like eldar though, not so much with marines) but on rare occasions they can do a lot of damage.

And yes, telling the owner of the most broken as crud saves in the game that they don't work, no way, no how is great.

Also a heap of fun vs a Shadowfielded Archon

Im quite bad at winning... but I play anyway. Suggest to you friend that if he thinks its THAT impossible to set himself a secret smaller goal than winning. I like to take out a specific unit sometimes because I'm pretty sure that my army is just going to burst quite early on...

In one game I had, my Tankbustas were dead set on killing my opponent's Land Raider Crusader, because in our prior game, it had killed them all without them managing a single Glancing Hit on it. I honestly didn't care what happened that game, as long as my Tankbustas managed to kill that Crusader.

They managed to charge and Bustabomb it to death on the second to last round. And a bomb-squig blew up my Battlewagon, too. But it was soooo worth it.