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 SHUPPET wrote:
I wish I could just keep my 5E dex :(

Do you think you'd have said that two weeks ago? Do you think anyone would ever say that about the 5th Ed 'Nid 'Dex?

Nids didnt think it could get worse either ferrum........ but it did.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
"So what I'm basically getting is that the Tau Codex is way over the top on shooting, and nobody likes that. The thing that all seem to be complaining about is the new Nid Dex isn't more over the top to deal with it.

So taking Tau out of the equation, how do you think they will do against Marines, IG, Dark Eldar, Chaos and Orks?"

Eldar will shoot and run shoot and run. gunning you down as you try to get to them, Marines-grav guns and Bolters I really don't need to explain that one. Dark Eldar-poison andddd laugh. Choas SM- will be too busy crying with their awful book in hand and orks will shoot you to pieces with waves of fire as will IG and Both of those are set to get new Dexs so that stand to get worse.

They took points costs down on some things and nerfed them and Nerfed some things and raised their points costs and gave Nids Cheap FMC and no real skyfire in their dex. It doesnt look great at this moment, not sky is falling kind of person but one mono build that people will eventually known exactly how to crush isnt fun

Hmm looks like biovores went down in price, land d3 spores, and spores get to move 3"/turn in any direction they want.

Weird.

I've had great luck using Monstrous Creatures and Venomthropes, to the point of exclusivity - this book promises to make both significantly better.

I am excited. Cheaper, more options, faster, and new t6 Elite ap2 monsters to boot? This is Great News!

Also, tyrannofexen are now costed reasonably. They were usable before, but now, I think 2 of them plus 1-2 plasma bugs will be sufficient for me. It's kind of like when I go to the games store; lumber to the objective slowly then get in everyone's way until they devote enough resources or firepower to get rid of me.

Wait, what?

This is probably going to be one of the worst codex releases ever.

Not because it won't competitive; I'm sure there will be strong lists.

But because there's not an iota of creativity to be found across the entire sorry mess

SBG wrote:
Weird.

I've had great luck using Monstrous Creatures and Venomthropes, to the point of exclusivity - this book promises to make both significantly better.

I am excited. Cheaper, more options, faster, and new t6 Elite ap2 monsters to boot? This is Great News!

Also, tyrannofexen are now costed reasonably. They were usable before, but now, I think 2 of them plus 1-2 plasma bugs will be sufficient for me. It's kind of like when I go to the games store; lumber to the objective slowly then get in everyone's way until they devote enough resources or firepower to get rid of me.

Wait, what?

Nidzilla is a good way to go honestly. You just need to figure out how to deal with things that ignore cover, are AP3 (no more 2+ saves for MCs) or cause ID.

Not being snarky, its the list I am looking at making. That or flying circus.

Flying Circus seems to be the way too go.

 Gloomfang wrote:

SBG wrote:
Weird.

I've had great luck using Monstrous Creatures and Venomthropes, to the point of exclusivity - this book promises to make both significantly better.

I am excited. Cheaper, more options, faster, and new t6 Elite ap2 monsters to boot? This is Great News!

Also, tyrannofexen are now costed reasonably. They were usable before, but now, I think 2 of them plus 1-2 plasma bugs will be sufficient for me. It's kind of like when I go to the games store; lumber to the objective slowly then get in everyone's way until they devote enough resources or firepower to get rid of me.

Wait, what?

Nidzilla is a good way to go honestly. You just need to figure out how to deal with things that ignore cover, are AP3 (no more 2+ saves for MCs) or cause ID.

Not being snarky, its the list I am looking at making. That or flying circus.

Eldar Iyanden lists will absolutely murder Nidzilla.

Is it just me, or have tyranids gotten steadily worse with each new edition? They were kinda crap in 3rd when I started with 40k, but now?

I forget who said it, but yeah, they're like the faceless mooks of 40k... they exist to make every other army seem more heroic and, er, protagonist-y.

Like, why is the prime 35 more points? WHY?

dumbuket wrote:
Like, why is the prime 35 more points? WHY?

To help you forge a cinematic narrative.

Lots of things and list murder MCs now. Before everyone tooled up for mech and our MCs laughed off those weapons because we had so many wounds. No one REALLY prepared for 3 to MCs.

Now there are tons of MCs in all the top lists, so folks tool up to deal with it.

Passionately indifferent. I don't know how else to describe the GW game design attitude.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
I wish I could just keep my 5E dex :(

Do you think you'd have said that two weeks ago? Do you think anyone would ever say that about the 5th Ed 'Nid 'Dex?

As soon as I saw the rumour that Doom & Spores were out of the dex I wasn't completely thrown but I realised we were going to need to unlock a lot of flawed options for this dex to be anything but a sidegrade.



I held out hope that there would be EW grantable for Warriors& Rav's, Trygon tunnels, sensible ways of getting Hormagants Lictors and Stealers into combat (this one may actually have improved slightly but not sensibly), None of these things were given, more was taken out (Biomancy & Parasite), so yeah, I suspected it might come to this two weeks ago, i had just held out hope that it wouldn't. What we have gained doesn't even make up for what we have LOST, and realistically it should not just be equal to it should be MORE coming into a new codex, this isn't an FAQ. Whether or not the codex gets a competitively stronger mono-build or not, I have just lost a bunch of options coming into the Dex and the only way to replace them is by spending tons of cash on new overpriced Monstrous Creatures (which tbh aren't even very nice sculpts). So yeah I now have a bunch of useless models on my bench and the tradeoff for this is a codex that seems to sit at a similar or lower level of power, with smaller total unit count. I want my 5E dex back, which I don't think was something even asked for by the Eldarbook skeptics. This release was handled beyond poorly.

I'm definitely concerned and a bit irritated as it does look like tyranids got worse. We will see how things shake out but I may sell part of my 6600pt tyranid army to fund my growing HH army. (on a related note, most of the AdMech stuff has stats and point costs exactly what Tyranids should be. 85pts for an MC troop choice, 40pts for a T5 S5 W3 troop, 35pts for 10 S4 T3 chaff)

A Nidzilla list seems like the best option but the problem is that the troop section went from good to bad. You could try for the old Term/Tervigon troops but that would cost you at least 100pts more than it did in 5E. Genestealers still die like overpriced guardsmen, warriors die to S8 like they have for years, hormagaunts die worse than guardsmen in CC and with no rerolls they might as well be guardsmen without guns, and rippers are still rippers but more expensive.

The new stuff looks cool so I guess the best option would be to go 2 groups of 10 termagants to keep more points open for MCs and FMCs.

In a slight glimmer of hope/fairness to warriors, hasn't the meta now favored S7 weapons to S8 considerably? For example, Tau always take missile broadsides instead of rail broadsides. SM rarely if ever take MLs now.

Perhaps they maybe some staying power for warriors???

There are a number of small mechanics that I have trouble with.. One being a Carnifex at Str-9. What is the point now the MC's have smash?

90% of things you will wound on a 2+ with Str 6 and if you encounter a tank or a MC you will just use your 3 smash attacks anyway.

A Str-6 Carnifex at 10-15 points lower would be significantly better.

I understand doubling out T 4 but 2 x wound T4 people have invuns...

Things like that make me feel like im paying lots of points for not much actual benefit.

bodazoka wrote:
There are a number of small mechanics that I have trouble with.. One being a Carnifex at Str-9. What is the point now the MC's have smash?

90% of things you will wound on a 2+ with Str 6 and if you encounter a tank or a MC you will just use your 3 smash attacks anyway.

A Str-6 Carnifex at 10-15 points lower would be significantly better.

I understand doubling out T 4 but 2 x wound T4 people have invuns...

Things like that make me feel like im paying lots of points for not much actual benefit.

Tradition. Carnifexes have always been S9 or S10. Smash really it just another slap in their face in 6th edition really.

bodazoka wrote:
There are a number of small mechanics that I have trouble with.. One being a Carnifex at Str-9. What is the point now the MC's have smash?

90% of things you will wound on a 2+ with Str 6 and if you encounter a tank or a MC you will just use your 3 smash attacks anyway.

A Str-6 Carnifex at 10-15 points lower would be significantly better.

I understand doubling out T 4 but 2 x wound T4 people have invuns...

Things like that make me feel like im paying lots of points for not much actual benefit.

I think the S9 is mostly a hold-over from previous codexes. But being S9 is fine even with smash because it means you don't have to smash to ID T4 models. So instead of 3 S10 smash attacks, you get 5 or 6 S9 attacks with the same effect. Also, it means HOW can ID T4 models too and is more likely to destroy a tank on the charge. Since Carnifexes are WS3, and Scything talons don't give rerolls, and crushing claws don't add D3 attack, you want as many attacks as possible.

Another problem. Why are all our CC MCs still only WS3? Why is the Swarmlord only WS9 and BS4 when an Avatar is WS10 BS10 and a Bloodletter (that's right, a bloodletter) is BS5? Why is our MCs only T6 or T5 while Eldar have T8 MCs?

 Carnage43 wrote:
Tradition. Carnifexes have always been S9 or S10. Smash really it just another slap in their face in 6th edition really.

Seems that way.

Honestly I don't care that people didn't get things they wanted or even that things got nerfed or removed etc.. I am positive there is a MC build in there which will be scary once the book is out.

Little things like putting in the smash mechanic and then charging you points to give a Carnifex Str9 get my goat...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 shamroll wrote:
I think the S9 is mostly a hold-over from previous codexes. But being S9 is fine even with smash because it means you don't have to smash to ID T4 models. So instead of 3 S10 smash attacks, you get 5 or 6 S9 attacks with the same effect. Also, it means HOW can ID T4 models too and is more likely to destroy a tank on the charge. Since Carnifexes are WS3, and Scything talons don't give rerolls, and crushing claws don't add D3 attack, you want as many attacks as possible.

Another problem. Why are all our CC MCs still only WS3? Why is the Swarmlord only WS9 and BS4 when an Avatar is WS10 BS10 and a Bloodletter (that's right, a bloodletter) is BS5? Why is our MCs only T6 or T5 while Eldar have T8 MCs?

Which T4 - 2 x wound models are we talking about though?

And if they dropped the Str by 1 and upped the WS to 4 you would instantly make the model worth the 120 points. Currently it is very close to being beaten by 2 x Necron Spyder's at 100 points...

 Gloomfang wrote:

SBG wrote:
Weird.

I've had great luck using Monstrous Creatures and Venomthropes, to the point of exclusivity - this book promises to make both significantly better.

I am excited. Cheaper, more options, faster, and new t6 Elite ap2 monsters to boot? This is Great News!

Also, tyrannofexen are now costed reasonably. They were usable before, but now, I think 2 of them plus 1-2 plasma bugs will be sufficient for me. It's kind of like when I go to the games store; lumber to the objective slowly then get in everyone's way until they devote enough resources or firepower to get rid of me.

Wait, what?

Nidzilla is a good way to go honestly. You just need to figure out how to deal with things that ignore cover, are AP3 (no more 2+ saves for MCs) or cause ID.

Not being snarky, its the list I am looking at making. That or flying circus.

That's the great thing about the T-fex, being a 2+ save. I'm thinking of running 3 of them, hopefully with catalyst support.

I hope they didn't lose that save, now that I think about it... uh-oh.

---

They still have a 2+. But they have to buy the extra thorax template - which I'm OK with.

 shamroll wrote:
ls too and is more likely to destroy a tank on the charge. Since Carnifexes are WS3, and Scything talons don't give rerolls, and crushing claws don't add D3 attack, you want as many attacks as possible.

Another problem. Why are all our CC MCs still only WS3? Why is the Swarmlord only WS9 and BS4 when an Avatar is WS10 BS10 and a Bloodletter (that's right, a bloodletter) is BS5? Why is our MCs only T6 or T5 while Eldar have T8 MCs?

I'd say the answer to this question is internal balance. The stats of a unit is not compared to the stats of a similar unit from a different dex, its balanced to be level with the army rules, supporting units and general playtheme in our own dex to create hopefully one all around balanced product.

Unfortunately, they have failed horribly at internal balance on this dex. Why was this allowed to go through? Feels like it was written by someone who has never played Nids before, and just decided "oh well Hormagants and Lictors don't see much play hmm lets give them small buffs I'm sure this will make them usable, Tervigon sees a lot of play well we better nerf that one slightly, Tyranids are in desperate need of anti-air so lets drop some points off the Flyrant, oh look a bunch of people saying they want models for everything in the dex, so lets just fix that for them by wiping everything that doesn't have a model from the Codex that'll put a grin on their face, now it's important to the people that Tyranid rules reflect that they are their own entity for another galaxy so we'll lock em into their very own unique psyker table that no other race can get. how cool is that? Damn it this feels good, just being here to provide for the fans"

Whether or not it's the strongest or weakest 6E codex out yet is to be seen, but it's without a doubt hands down the least thought-out most badly conceived one yet.

Sooo.....after reading tons of posts on various forums, looking over various scans (including the spanish ones).

Overall, there are some good things, a lot of "meh" things, and a lot of not so good things.

I have a feeling that in the end, some things will be a little better than we thought, and it will take a while for some combos to form, and in the end, things will prolly be somewhat better than they are now.

BUT...
What are we missing?

The special rules on synapse and shadows?
Details on if ANY psykers can take BRB powers?
(have not seen the entries for zoeys, for example).

Is there anything we have not seen? Any biomorph, or weapon or something? Is there a bit "you have to see the whole codex" piece of information.

For example, the eldar did not get good until people saw the psychic powers and understood what serpent shields and battle focus did. Of course, then they read scatter lasers and bladestorm...and those little morsels changed perspective quite a bit.

So, what are we missing? Is there a reference there we don't know yet?

Or is that just fleeting hope...

I wonder what Brass Angel's opinion on these latest developments are.

What if there were some simple addendum, like: "Adaptive Defense: All Tyranid models ignore any wounds taken on a roll of 3+".

Maybe slightly OP.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I wonder what Brass Angel's opinion on these latest developments are.

Yeah where is he? He banned or something?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I wonder what Brass Angel's opinion on these latest developments are.

I'm sure we have to wait at least 2 months before our brains could possibly be capable of digesting the information we've been given, only then we are allowed to cast judgement upon the facts at hand.

I don't even know what that guy was doing in a "News & Rumours" thread if people were not allowed to judge the news and rumours, but I won't lie I'm glad that he's stopped posting that "b-b-but, Eldar dex" crap here, even if only temporarily.

davethepak wrote:
Sooo.....after reading tons of posts on various forums, looking over various scans (including the spanish ones).

Overall, there are some good things, a lot of "meh" things, and a lot of not so good things.


Is there anything we have not seen? Any biomorph, or weapon or something? Is there a bit "you have to see the whole codex" piece of information.

For example, the eldar did not get good until people saw the psychic powers and understood what serpent shields and battle focus did. Of course, then they read scatter lasers and bladestorm...and those little morsels changed perspective quite a bit.

So, what are we missing? Is there a reference there we don't know yet?

Or is that just fleeting hope...

Fleeting hope, there is no new special rules detailed for anything that I have seen.

Will adrenal gland be worth putting on a cc flyrant?

No, we know pretty much the whole codex at this point.

to answer your questions.

No BRB powers for anyone in the codex.

Zoens are a brother hood of psykers with ML2. they use the power as a brood. warp blast and one random power. warp blast is A:X where X is number of members in the brood.

for real fun no more tervigon buffs. oh and there is something like a 25% chance your termigaunts will break and run every turn they are out of synapse for now good reason. Imagine a 120pt unit you are using to hold a backfeild objective running off the board because the babysitter got gaked.

POW! right in the babymaker.