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So, we know that vehicles that perform Tank Shock from reserves are destroyed automatically along with any contents if they ever have to stop while part of the vehicle is off the board (GW Rulebook FAQ, p. 5, left column). This seems to indicate that vehicles that Tank Shock from reserves against a unit deployed along the table edge that they are deploying from are destroyed automatically, as you have to stop moving the vehicle when it comes in contact with an enemy unit to resolve the Tank Shock (40k Core Rulebook, p. 68, right column), and part of the vehicle will certainly be off the board when doing so. If so, what happens to the unit being Tank Shocked? Does it still have to test morale?
   
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Syracuse, NY

Stopping the vehicle in the rulebook is just to let you resolve the tank shock. Think of the destroyed caveat as applying only after a unit has 'completed' its move move for the turn/phase.

Edit: i.e. resolve the shock if the tank is not stopped by a Death or Glory then keep on driving.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/23 00:39:35


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Yeah, 'stopping' to resolve the tank shock isn't the tank stopping at that location. It's the players pausing the game for a moment to resolve a specific action that happens during the vehicle's movement.

The vehicle will only be destroyed if it finishes its movement still overlapping the board edge.

   
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calypso2ts wrote:Stopping the vehicle in the rulebook is just to let you resolve the tank shock. Think of the destroyed caveat as applying only after a unit has 'completed' its move move for the turn/phase.


That doesn't gel with the actual rules text-- the FAQ says the tank is destroyed if it stops while partially off-table "for any reason," not just at the end of its move.
   
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Fetterkey wrote:That doesn't gel with the actual rules text-- the FAQ says the tank is destroyed if it stops while partially off-table "for any reason," not just at the end of its move.

The tank shock rules don't actually tell you to stop the tank when it encounters an enemy unit. Pausing the tank's movement is simply the easiest way to resolve the action.

   
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The tank has not stopped though. Like insaniak said, it's merely pressing the pause button during the tanks move, to resolve the tank shock. The FAQ "stop" would be finishing it's movement with part of the model off the edge, such as an immobilized result of tank shock, with only half the tank on the board.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/23 01:21:04


 
   
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Insaniak expressed it more eloquently than I, you get the idea.

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insaniak wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:That doesn't gel with the actual rules text-- the FAQ says the tank is destroyed if it stops while partially off-table "for any reason," not just at the end of its move.

The tank shock rules don't actually tell you to stop the tank when it encounters an enemy unit. Pausing the tank's movement is simply the easiest way to resolve the action.


Actually, they do. When conducting a tank shock, you stop moving the vehicle once it comes into contact with an enemy unit or when you reach the distance declared (40k Core Rulebook, p. 68, right column).
   
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Fetterkey wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:That doesn't gel with the actual rules text-- the FAQ says the tank is destroyed if it stops while partially off-table "for any reason," not just at the end of its move.

The tank shock rules don't actually tell you to stop the tank when it encounters an enemy unit. Pausing the tank's movement is simply the easiest way to resolve the action.


Actually, they do. When conducting a tank shock, you stop moving the vehicle once it comes into contact with an enemy unit or when you reach the distance declared (40k Core Rulebook, p. 68, right column).


Keep reading down, middle of the second paragraph, "Regardless of the result of the test, the vehicle keeps moving straight on..."
The only things that stop the vehicle from moving are coming into contact with a friendly models or moving to within 1" of an enemy vehicle.
That and a successful DoG attack that manages to stun, immobilize or destroy the vehicle.

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Those are indeed the only things that stop the vehicle's movement abruptly. However, the first paragraph is clear that you stop moving the vehicle once you contact an enemy unit. In fact, the same rule that is used to describe stopping on contact with an enemy unit is used to describe stopping when you run out of movement. If that's not stopping, what is? And while the vehicle indeed stops temporarily, it doesn't matter why it stopped-- it's still destroyed as per the FAQ entry.
   
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"if an enemy unit other than another vehicle is reached(including any model in an artillery unit), the unit must take a Morale check and will immediately fall back if it fails it. If the test is passed, the unit will simply let the tank move through, as if it were not there. Regardless of the result of the test, the vehicle keeps moving..."

I don't see the word stop until it says if it comes into contact with a friendly model or within one inch of an enemy vehicle.

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Since you are stating you have read the FAQs perhaps you should check out page 5 of the 40K rulebook FAQ left hand column second to the last entry. It specifically tells you that you can Tank shock your way onto the board. No need to cherry pick your FAQs use them all or none.
   
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Boss GreenNutz wrote:Since you are stating you have read the FAQs perhaps you should check out page 5 of the 40K rulebook FAQ left hand column second to the last entry. It specifically tells you that you can Tank shock your way onto the board. No need to cherry pick your FAQs use them all or none.

QFT. If youre going to cite FAQ, site ALL the FAQ. The FAQ in question is pretty conclusive, and it says you move the vehicle onto the board the full declared distance, then resolve the tank shock from that point. At no point does the vehicle "pause" or "stop" moving when it contacts a unit unless forced to do so by a Death or Glory attack. This really makes sense when you think about it. A tank is not going to rev its engines and smash toward a unit blocking its path only to stop and wait patiently while the guys to decide if they want to get out of the way or shoot it. It keeps moving the whole time, and only stops if forced to do so by the enemy it's attempting to shock.

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Fetterkey wrote:If that's not stopping, what is?

Stopping is.

Pausing to determine the result of the Ld test and then continuing your movement is not.

   
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pwntallica wrote:"if an enemy unit other than another vehicle is reached(including any model in an artillery unit), the unit must take a Morale check and will immediately fall back if it fails it. If the test is passed, the unit will simply let the tank move through, as if it were not there. Regardless of the result of the test, the vehicle keeps moving..."

I don't see the word stop until it says if it comes into contact with a friendly model or within one inch of an enemy vehicle.


"Move the vehicle straight forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared." This passage clearly indicates that a vehicle stops, even temporarily, if it comes into contact with an enemy unit-- the same mechanism that is used to describe it is also used to describe the vehicle stopping at the end of its move!

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Since you are stating you have read the FAQs perhaps you should check out page 5 of the 40K rulebook FAQ left hand column second to the last entry. It specifically tells you that you can Tank shock your way onto the board. No need to cherry pick your FAQs use them all or none.


No it doesn't. It states that you can perform a Tank Shock when moving on from reserves, but are destroyed if you have to stop for any reason while partially off table. This is still useful in that it allows you to Tank Shock from reserves against units that are not lining the edge directly, but still close enough to be shocked-- it's also quite good for outflanking units.

Aldarionn wrote:At no point does the vehicle "pause" or "stop" moving when it contacts a unit unless forced to do so by a Death or Glory attack.


That's simply not the case.
   
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Fetterkey wrote:
"Move the vehicle straight forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared."


Maybe I am missing something, where is the word stop in that statement. As far as I can tell you only actually stop when you stop. That seems a lot like pausing to me, which the FAQ does not say destroys you.

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First of all: think fetterkey for one moment, what you would actually do if driving a tank toward the enemy, would you stop? Or would you just carry on?

Secondly:
Ok guys, ok. Quite clearly we have someone here who not only absolutely loves RAW and will never falter, no matter what, but we also have someone who refuses to listen, even if the whole dakka community is explaining to him why he is wrong and attempting to show why. So, lets just leave them to it and hope we never have to play against fetterkey.

Now could somebody please close this as I think we've got an answer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/23 21:24:00


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I'm not sure you get to claim to be using RAW when you acknowledge one part of the rules, and then ignore others as suits your needs.

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Bookwrack wrote:I'm not sure you get to claim to be using RAW when you acknowledge one part of the rules, and then ignore others as suits your needs.


True. (See what I did there fetterkey? I acknowledged someone else's opinion, realised they were correct, and simply agreed).

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calypso2ts wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
"Move the vehicle straight forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared."


Maybe I am missing something, where is the word stop in that statement. As far as I can tell you only actually stop when you stop. That seems a lot like pausing to me, which the FAQ does not say destroys you.


So, once you reach the end of your movement, you just "pause?"

Bookwrack wrote:I'm not sure you get to claim to be using RAW when you acknowledge one part of the rules, and then ignore others as suits your needs.


Please explain what part of the RAW I am ignoring.
   
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Syracuse, NY

You are ignoring the part of the FAQ that says you can tank shock onto the board, which implies you do not just auto destroy the vehicle.

No then you stopped moving, I am arbitraily defining it just like you are arbitrarily defining what it means to be stopped.

Since we are just making up things anyway, we might as well do so in a way that is not completely asinine, like a tank blowing up and killing all the crew and passengers with it because it bumped into a Kroot on its way onto the board.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/23 22:39:30


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I've had enough of this! Someone please close this thread, the OP will not take no for an answer, the original question has been answered multiple times and this regressing into a jumbled argument.

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Dallas, TX

Um.... you chose to all-reserve and they had an entire kroot army. You made a tactical mistake. It cost you the game. Don't DO that.

When you make a tank shock, you stop an inch away from the enemy and resolve the tank shock. If you can't DO that, because your model would be off the board, you can't come on.

If they're like 7" away or so, then the rules allow you to come onto the board tank-shocking. The rules say you can tank shock in from reserves. That's not an end-all statement, declaring 'YES, you CAN, no matter WHAT happens!" It means you're able to, if all the other rules are still followed. Like being able to stop an inch away while on the table.

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But that's just it, you can tank shock onto the board, resolving the tank shock does not stop the vehicle. so you are not destroyed until you stop and you are off the edge.

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calypso2ts wrote:You are ignoring the part of the FAQ that says you can tank shock onto the board, which implies you do not just auto destroy the vehicle.


The FAQ says you can Tank Shock from reserves, not that you can tank shock through models that are lining the board edge. For instance, imagine that I am playing Codex: Blood Angels and want to use a Fast Rhino to tank shock an enemy unit 17" away from my table edge. Prior to the FAQ, this move was in a grey area-- after the FAQ, it was legal.

DeathReaper wrote:But that's just it, you can tank shock onto the board, resolving the tank shock does not stop the vehicle. so you are not destroyed until you stop and you are off the edge.


Please explain why "Move the vehicle straight forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared" does not entail stopping the vehicle when it comes into contact with an enemy unit or you reach the distance declared.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/24 00:11:39


 
   
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Dear Sir and/or Madam,

Please consider the following process for moving a unit onto the board from reserve. You first move one model onto the table, pause and then move the next model onto the table. By your reasoning, that unit has stopped while off the table and must be destroyed. You have, after all, stopped moving the unit and it is, however briefly, partially off the table.

   
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solkan wrote:Dear Sir and/or Madam,

Please consider the following process for moving a unit onto the board from reserve. You first move one model onto the table, pause and then move the next model onto the table. By your reasoning, that unit has stopped while off the table and must be destroyed. You have, after all, stopped moving the unit and it is, however briefly, partially off the table.



Not so-- the FAQ entry only applies to tanks being destroyed if they Tank Shock and stop for any reason before the entire vehicle is on the board, not units being destroyed because not all their models are on the board. Further, the ruling only applies to Tank Shock anyway, so wouldn't affect normal units coming on from reserves even if your interpretation were correct.
   
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Syracuse, NY

The rule makes no reference to tank shocking, that is your creation.

The rule says a vehicle that stops this can happen several ways, one is a successful DoG, another a 1 of 6 on a DT test.

Like I said, since you decided to arbitrarily define stopping to happen when you are tank shocking a unit I can with equal (possibly more due to the utter inanity of your point) authority define it as a vehicle ending its move and not apply it to a vehicle mid move tank shocking.

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The FAQ is explicit in this case.

I don't understand why this troll thread is still open.

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calypso2ts wrote:The rule makes no reference to tank shocking, that is your creation.


I'm not sure what rule you're referring to, but this entire discussion is in the context of an FAQ ruling that only applies to vehicles tank shocking from Reserves.

calypso2ts wrote:The rule says a vehicle that stops this can happen several ways, one is a successful DoG, another a 1 of 6 on a DT test.


I'm again not sure what you're talking about here.

calypso2ts wrote:Like I said, since you decided to arbitrarily define stopping to happen when you are tank shocking a unit I can with equal (possibly more due to the utter inanity of your point) authority define it as a vehicle ending its move and not apply it to a vehicle mid move tank shocking.


I didn't "arbitrarily define stopping to happen when you are tank shocking," I quoted rules that indicate that you stop moving your tank when it comes into contact with an enemy unit so that you can resolve your shock. You are the only one who is making arbitrary claims here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/24 00:57:20


 
   
 
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