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I gave the Banshees a go with two squads of five with the Biel-Tan craftworld and managed a turn one charge with my banshees on pretty much the entirety of my opponent's Tau gunline. My opponent's positioning and the size of the units I had made it nigh on impossible to wrap any of his fire warriors or drones so he was able to withdraw and used Kauyon to wipe my banshees. He did dedicate a lot of firepower to them but his broadsides were able to eat a wave serpent a turn and I couldn't really get near them after the initial charge.

I charged my banshee mask autarch in at the same time and thinking about it now I should have waited and charged him in next turn to tie up more units the next turn but oh well, you live and learn. Managed a draw in the end so a little bit unlucky not to win.

Next game is against Custodes with three Telemons. Any tips/list picks for this game?

Go with Jinx and a lot of smites! Those are your best friends against the golden boiz

If he's playing pure bananna boys, hes not gonna have much in the way of screens. If you can get banshees (or any other no-overwatch unit) onto the Telemons you've got a huge advantage. Unlike the Caladius the Telemon can't fall back and shoot, and if they're in a shootying configuration they're not all that dangerous in melee.

A Telemon will still kill 2 banshees a turn in CC without a fist - 4 attacks hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s is not nice for your Banshees. There's actually very little difference in the load outs against banshees.

That's before you factor in their shield captain babysitter. You should be able to shut one down for a turn but not longer, unless you're committing a full squad.

Considering my opponent is likely to be taking three Telemons, throwing banshees at them won't do the job. Would it be worth taking them anyway purely to sand bag them for a turn? I have no access to flyers right now so the only solid anti-tank I have are three fire prisms.

Do I simply avoid them and play the objective? I don't think I'll be able to deal with all three during the game through smites, destructor and executioner alone.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Considering my opponent is likely to be taking three Telemons, throwing banshees at them won't do the job. Would it be worth taking them anyway purely to sand bag them for a turn? I have no access to flyers right now so the only solid anti-tank I have are three fire prisms.

Do I simply avoid them and play the objective? I don't think I'll be able to deal with all three during the game through smites, destructor and executioner alone.

Sacrificing a few Banshees to shut down 800 points of Telemon shooting for a turn or two is most definitely worth it. Those lasses were getting squished, it was never in doubt. If you can keep those dreads from liquefying your army its a net win to you.

I dont think a squad of 5 will do much. A squad of 10 with fearless and heavy hitting support from say an avatar sounds fun on paper. Should be enough to buy the time needed to get points and free up the fire power to go to work on the rest of his army. Caveat - i have not played that combination myself.

What they do best is "buy time".

You aren't killing anything with them. Even GEQ don't fear them, because the AP means nearly nothing and the A2 means the volume is far too low. Anything tougher than that laughs off the S3. It's kinda funny seeing this T3 4+ unit bounce off Marines.

They are great at buying time, with their extra movement and ignore-overwatch. The problem is buying the right time with them. T1, you're only getting into what they put out there for you to charge, so even if you get a T1 charge it ain't great. T2+, you're a bit late to tie the important stuff up - it's already done it's damage.

To make matters worse, most lists have at least one of:
-No good target for them (any CC list)
-A great unit to counter-assault them (any Combined Arms list)
-Can easily remove T3 4+ models at nigh-MEQ prices (Any shooty list)

Banshees can do great things in the right circumstances, but they'll rarely get to.

My last game with them, one squad of Banshees locked down a pair of Leman Russes for a turn. They lost combat by a couple when 3 Primaris Pskers (!) joined in. Then the Russes fell back, and a Conscript squad sans support removed the survivors. And this is one of the better outcomes they can get - sacrificing a Banshee squad to lock down two Russes and eat a Conscript squad's dakka for a turn isn't a terrible trade.

I would talk to your opponent first myself and ask them. My flgs had this come up awhile ago and agreed that the original movement type for flyers is how they are when they enter the battlefield t1 and then its the owners choice during their movement if they want to use the alternative option. The argument was about a flyer getting its -1 supersonic bonus if the person going 2nd hasnt had a chance to move the model yet, the person going 1st was arguing that since it hasnt moved yet it has to either be in hover mode or crash..... you can imagine how that game went lol.

In the case of the nightwing it starts in normal flight and retracts as an option doesnt it? In that case yeah, no 5++ t1 until you advance it.

Azuza001 wrote:
I would talk to your opponent first myself and ask them. My flgs had this come up awhile ago and agreed that the original movement type for flyers is how they are when they enter the battlefield t1 and then its the owners choice during their movement if they want to use the alternative option. The argument was about a flyer getting its -1 supersonic bonus if the person going 2nd hasnt had a chance to move the model yet, the person going 1st was arguing that since it hasnt moved yet it has to either be in hover mode or crash..... you can imagine how that game went lol.

In the case of the nightwing it starts in normal flight and retracts as an option doesnt it? In that case yeah, no 5++ t1 until you advance it.

Neither flight mode is inherent for the Nightwing, it simply says to pick one before moving it. However, since the extended wings profile would remove other listed abilities, I would argue that is the least natural starting point.

Played another game against Orks last night and managed to find some use with the Banshees I brought. Tied up a traktor cannon for the majority of the game so didn't deal any wounds to it because it's T5 and Banshees can kill anything. Happy enough, they did their job.

I keep playing with triple Fire Prisms in an Alaitoc spearhead led by a jetbike autarch and I'm finding the autarch a little bit hard to use as I don't want to give away slay the warlord when I charge him into combat.

Also have been using War Walkers and I honestly believe they're an auto-take for me now. Shuriken cannons put in the work on such a cheap and pretty sturdy body. Tempted to try EMLs on them for horde management and some anti-tank but that gets expensive.

I play an Aspect Host, with basically 1 of each aspect + a couple more Dire Avenger units + a Phoenix Lord. And each Exarch has a different configuration.

Banshees can be really helpful there in skirmishing against shooty foes, or leading the charge against combined arms/cc armies. The Banshees charge in first, then a half-dozen other units. Each individual unit doesn't do much, but ~20 GEQ piling into a single unit does work - especially since those GEQ already did their shooting that phase, and strike first because they charged. With the Exarchs and PL, they typically beat whatever they're facing, although it's best when you leave a couple models alive. The trick is ensuring you have short charges with enough units, and ensuring you've whittled down the unit enough; charging your entire force into even a 30-man Conscript unit can be baaad.

Aspect Hosts aren't very effective. But if you are running one, Banshees are a great toolkit but a terrible CC unit.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Played another game against Orks last night and managed to find some use with the Banshees I brought. Tied up a traktor cannon for the majority of the game so didn't deal any wounds to it because it's T5 and Banshees can kill anything. Happy enough, they did their job.

I keep playing with triple Fire Prisms in an Alaitoc spearhead led by a jetbike autarch and I'm finding the autarch a little bit hard to use as I don't want to give away slay the warlord when I charge him into combat.

Also have been using War Walkers and I honestly believe they're an auto-take for me now. Shuriken cannons put in the work on such a cheap and pretty sturdy body. Tempted to try EMLs on them for horde management and some anti-tank but that gets expensive.

This is exactly what I have been thinking. I have 3 more heading to me soon and I am going to try 2 units of 3 with EML.

Can't be too bad.. lol

Ive run an EML heavy force before. I do like the twin EML. Its still S8 d6 dmg -2ap so can take care of business. Not quite BL AT level but good enough... It offers nice duality but the horde control is very swingy though, such is the nature of D6 weapons. Backed up with tempest launchers cant go wrong. Played vs tau and worked very well for clearing drones & fire warriors.

I run beil tan and one of the most effective castle setups i have ran was running a farseer and 2 squads of 3 warwalkers with eml. Yes they are expensive but if you run 2 squads of 3 warwalkers with 2x eml, a squad of 3 support weapons with shadow weavers, and a warlord farseer with Natural Leader and guide you have 12 eml all rerolling to hits and anti infanty guns in a spearhead detachment for 701 pts.

Compair this to a typical triple fire prism setup of 3 prisms with crystal targeting matrix, spirit stones, shurican cannon upgrade, and a farseer skyrunner (how i run it when i am using them) which costs 677 pts and they really are not that far off from each other. Fire prisms need cp to run, have mobility if things go bad, where warwalkers have 5+ invunerable and extra wounds that need to be peeled through to slow down and more flexability in firing options.

Its why i enjoy eldar so much atm, our faction really has many different ways to effectively run them. Its all about playstyle and preferences.

Azuza001 wrote:
I run beil tan and one of the most effective castle setups i have ran was running a farseer and 2 squads of 3 warwalkers with eml. Yes they are expensive but if you run 2 squads of 3 warwalkers with 2x eml, a squad of 3 support weapons with shadow weavers, and a warlord farseer with Natural Leader and guide you have 12 eml all rerolling to hits and anti infanty guns in a spearhead detachment for 701 pts.

Compair this to a typical triple fire prism setup of 3 prisms with crystal targeting matrix, spirit stones, shurican cannon upgrade, and a farseer skyrunner (how i run it when i am using them) which costs 677 pts and they really are not that far off from each other. Fire prisms need cp to run, have mobility if things go bad, where warwalkers have 5+ invunerable and extra wounds that need to be peeled through to slow down and more flexability in firing options.

Its why i enjoy eldar so much atm, our faction really has many different ways to effectively run them. Its all about playstyle and preferences.

Interesting approach. I personally would only run prisms bare bones. However the triple walkers AML squadrons I can see working. The benefit of having a seer babysitting them is that you can always use forewarned and maybe drop runes of witnessing if you have a bigger castle to make it worth and spare CP.

What do you run as you battalion/battalions for CP in this list?

I was thinking about a similar thing but with night spinners and throwing in a Bonesinger for the heals. Regenerating Walkers sounds like a lot of fun.. Id probably have a shooty autarch and seer up front to smite and guide back to the nest of walkers.

Wish you could take WL in a squadron.

I do agree Eldar do offer a lot flavours. As with any army if you min max your choices get narrowed but I still think we have ways of making different builds work effectively. I played a game on Friday Eldar V Eldar. That's was fun! We both run Eldrad in our armies. I had no answer for his wraithguard bomb or his night spinner once my reapers were annihilated going second got tabled but got the draw as I was massively ahead on points due to having a more mobile force thanks to a unit of Warp spiders. Two very different armies. Absolutely love the warp spiders. They don't quite have the punch but the mobility is out of this world. I am really looking forward to getting a squad of 10 up and running as these were on loan.

I'm curious as to why you're running Biel-Tan when you can reliably cast guide and if you picked Alaitoc nothing would be hitting those units of WWs.

I also don't feel the two "bombs" are really comparable as Fire Prisms have the ability to link fire (with re-rolls included), fire twice each if they don't move and have 60" range. You don't even need a Farseer for them to be super effective and they're best run bare bones so they're a good bit cheaper than you're letting on. Taking them as Alaitoc with a Jetbike Autarch (MotIH, Reaper Launcher) rounds out that spearhead to 594pts, which is a massive difference considering you can let the Autarch do whatever he wants.

Haven't played for a long time, so I don't really know what's hot or not at the moment.

What is the best way to run bikes these days? Plain shuriken cannon for everyone?

I painted my Eldar in Biel Tan, but that comes with the regrets of it being weird if I pick another craftworld trait. At least a lot of my models are Aspects in 'aspect' colours. I hear Alaitoc are flavour of the day for their trait?

 Daba wrote:
Haven't played for a long time, so I don't really know what's hot or not at the moment.

What is the best way to run bikes these days? Plain shuriken cannon for everyone?

I painted my Eldar in Biel Tan, but that comes with the regrets of it being weird if I pick another craftworld trait. At least a lot of my models are Aspects in 'aspect' colours. I hear Alaitoc are flavour of the day for their trait?

If your list has lots of shurikens, Biel Tan isn't that bad.

Biel-Tan in my opinion is like the second best Craftworld trait after Alaitoc and is king in small points games where barebones and min-max is a good idea.

I enjoy the trait a lot and take a Battalion as Biel-Tan and a Spearhead as Alaitoc in my 2k list and it's been pretty fun.

I could run a Dire Avenger heavy list.

I take it shooty boys are good this edition in general for Eldar? How are our bikes and vehicles?

Biel tan bikes with shuriken cannons are fast and self sufficient, and you can drop a cheap 20 man guardian blob on someones front line and unload onto them with little fear of it doing some work thanks to the trait. Saim han is still scatter laser bikes = terrific value and firepower. Alitoc is the go to option because flat-1 to hit is soo good.

Our vehicles range from incredible to ok. Wave serpents, our flyers, these are incredibly good units if not a tad expensive. Fireprisms in groups are really good too.

Falcons are ok, but suffer a bit this edition because of cost and not being as survivable or putting out as much firepower as a wave serpent can.


As for my comparison above with fire prisms vs warwalkers, i was just explaining how i run them not how you have to. You could also drop 2 of the artillery pieces from my option to save 70 pts, so there is always a way to make them better.

I run biel tan and not alitoc because i use so many shuriken weapons on foot that it just makes sense. 6x5 dire avenger squads (exarch w/ double shuriken), banshees, bikes w/ shuriken cannons, vypers with shuriken cannons, these things all become more effective on their own as biel tan i feel.

How are Swooping Hawks? Too fragile still?

I use 5 man teams for chaff clearing in case i run up against guard / cultists / deamons. They are cheap enough that if 5 die no big deal but put out enough dakka that they can really help clear the way for banshees / scorpions.

They die to a stiff breeze but the weight of shots is great for screen clearing T3 blobs of guard or gretchin or getting at backfield objective holders. The grenade pack is okay but you can only do it once per phase.

I took a barebones squad in recent games and I was very pleased with them, especially in games where you want to hold objectives for points because their speed can get them places.

65 points to clear chaff and cap objectives? Yes please.

I have trouble clearing light infantry in my Aspect Host lists - which they do reasonably well at. So I enjoy them, and they usually do enough. But not amazing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Sun Rifle = wonderful. It's Index only, and might do nothing, but when facing a GEQ blob, it's quite impactful.

Is Ynnari dead?

karandrasss wrote:
Is Ynnari dead?

Yes. And they have their own thread to mourn them. /s

So much for the rebirth of the Eldar race eh? Purists won out in the end

Bharring wrote:
I have trouble clearing light infantry in my Aspect Host lists - which they do reasonably well at. So I enjoy them, and they usually do enough. But not amazing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Sun Rifle = wonderful. It's Index only, and might do nothing, but when facing a GEQ blob, it's quite impactful.

Are you still allowed to use Index stuff? Specifically bits of wargear from Index?