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so vect in a squad of 5 wyches, 3 wyches die, failed leadership, he runs away with 0% to regroup until he runs off the table...


...

1 grot can keep within 6" of his unit to keep them from regrouping, yet if this grot happens to charge them, they suddenly get a second chance?


How can a fearless IC who lost that rule by joining a unit not detach himself when the other idiots are running away? correct me if im wrong but this just seems like something they overlooked.

Would allowing fearless ICs to break off from a squad who has been routed really be that broken for gameplay? This seems like it is just a stupid, poorly thought out rule-application that you cant really justify in a real(i know its a tabletop game and reality doesnt apply) setting.

this is one of those things that just supremely bothers me about this game

I simply think if a character is fearless it should make the squad he's leading fearless.
They gain the highest LD there is; fearlessness is basically an extension of Leadership so why can't they gain that too?
Similarly, as a HQ choice/character, he's the leader - he should inspire them to stick around.

I think it is more for game balance reasons. If you say that an IC makes his unit fearless, then why can't you say that if the IC has FNP or relentless, he should confer it to his unit as well? It is a general, blanket rule that IC's do not confer USR's to his unit unless explicitly told in some special rule that he does so (with Stealth being probably one of the very few exceptions).

Besides, try adding a fearless HQ to a deathstar unit like assault terminators, paladins or thunderwolf cavalry and you'll see just how much nastier they become. Or add a fearless IG character to 50 guard units and they become an incredible tarpit unit.

youre right, a gaurd blob wouldbe too powerful if it gave everything fearless. but what would the problem be with allowing the IC to detach after 1 round of retreat?

Only a few individuals in the 40k universe are capable of inspiring those around them to great feats. So while many characters may have ceratin exceptional personal qualities, when faced with the cold reality of their comrades running away, they too falter.

Remember in full units, average leadership is used for tests, not the leadership of the champion/captain etc. When a characters joins a unit it becomes at one with the unit.

lukemcd wrote:Only a few individuals in the 40k universe are capable of inspiring those around them to great feats. So while many characters may have ceratin exceptional personal qualities, when faced with the cold reality of their comrades running away, they too falter.

Remember in full units, average leadership is used for tests, not the leadership of the champion/captain etc. When a characters joins a unit it becomes at one with the unit.

First, you use the highest leadership score, not the average (that is for non-Leadership characteristic tests).
Second, that character is braver when fighting completely alone on the field of battle (fearless even) then when he is surrounded by his men? In that case he will run with the rest of them? How does that make any sense?

the fact that he can run isnt even the issue, (btw this is untold story, on a diff account)the issue is that as soon as you fail one check he no longer can regroup if the unit is below 50%. i have no problem with him breaking when he sees his bodygaurds flee, but what on earth could the reasoning be behind not letting him split off? i may bring this up at my FLGS as just house rules, because i cant find any reason why allowing that char to get back in the fight would be overpowered. i hate when games are decided by a leadership check.

and how do i counter act this? i split my IC up and make him run in alone so he will never run away? how does this make any freaking sense?

Magister187 wrote:

lukemcd wrote:Only a few individuals in the 40k universe are capable of inspiring those around them to great feats. So while many characters may have ceratin exceptional personal qualities, when faced with the cold reality of their comrades running away, they too falter.

Remember in full units, average leadership is used for tests, not the leadership of the champion/captain etc. When a characters joins a unit it becomes at one with the unit.

First, you use the highest leadership score, not the average (that is for non-Leadership characteristic tests).
Second, that character is braver when fighting completely alone on the field of battle (fearless even) then when he is surrounded by his men? In that case he will run with the rest of them? How does that make any sense?

Sorry I did get that rule wrong, and I agree with you on the poor treatment IC's get in gameplay compared to their fluff, I think though that Fearless is very different in a game so strongly geared towards such a brutal combat phase..

The advantage of putting an IC in a unit is that you provide them a certain amount of protection out in the open and give them a certain amount of advantages instead of having your 100+pt unit ID'd with a 15pt weapon.

The other point is it's a bit unfair for your opponent to defeat you in combat, you fall back and then they have to beat your IC all over again. I for one think that sucks and it puts some races at a distinct disadvatage.

Also you might want to think of it in terms of GW giving IC's fearless so that when they are put with a fearless unit, they do not run from battle when defeated with their comrades. Units do not make IC's fearless and vice versa. This means there are some ambiguities like the one you have brought up, but it means IC's can be put with units in the first place and not disadvantage fearless units.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I just notices that if you have Vect with 5 Wyches and 3 die, the unit is not below 50%, 5+vect=6 models. 4 would need to die.

No, the independant character does not count towards the units total size. the unit size is 5+1, so they would need to lose 3 to be below 50%