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In The Saint (Can't remember exactly which book either Guns of Tanith or Straight Silver) Gaunt thinks something along the lines of; "even the great Yarrick couldn't do something or said something or whatever" now this would be fine except for the fact that the Sabbat Worlds Crusade is set in the latter part of the 8th centuary (around 770) M.41, Yarrick is most famous for his part in the second and third Armageddon wars, which happened a fair bit later IIRC (the 3rd war is still going on in 999.M.41.

My question is how old is Yarrick? I know He's known as the "Old Man of Armageddon" but surely it was the Armageddon wars that made him famous, before that, even if he was alive, he wouldnt have the kind of fame and notoriety for Gaunt to know of him in a completely different segmentum of the Imperium, much less reference him as being "Great".

Probably just a rare error on the mighty Mr Abnett's part but would be interesting to know if he really was that old, I suppose with extensive rejuvenat treatment and bionics its possible but still. . .

So...
In a book which you can't recall and a quote you can't remember you believe is a plot hole? Can we get a bit more detail?
As far as i know the Sabbat crusade is still on-going as of 999.M41 as Cain makes a reference to it in his memoirs (written during M42)
It is possible the crusade actually overlaps the second and third war for Armageddon.

Yarrick's fluff states that he was already old when Armageddon 2(941.M41) started.

That said, he would have to be 200+ by then if he was alive and active as a Commissar during the Sabbat Worlds Crusade.

I do believe it's an error on Mr. Abnett's part.

@Purplefood: The crusade may be going on still, but the parts in the Saint Omnibus happen between 770 and 775. M41. Even if it's still going on, Gaunt would most likely be dead by then, and the books are written as current events, not past like Cain's books.

I read a theory once that this could be a case of the Warp interfering with the flow of time, with Gaunt somehow getting a vision of the future during Warp travel...

...but I think it's more likely that Dan Abnett just wanted to namedrop a famous character, and he didn't check the dates.

There's also a part where he mentions a statue of Macharius wearing Lightning Claws.

Macharius used a Bolt pistol, sword, and pimp cane.

200+ isn't supposed to be that far-fetched for the higher ups of the Imperium social strata, which you can bet your bum that Yarrick is going to be a part of.

Inquisitor Voke was supposed to be around that age and still going on cases before he finally died in his bed.

Platuan, I don't remember any reference of Macharius.

I remember mention of Macaroth and Slaydo, and an unnamed Astartes hero though.

Im sure Macharius was mentioned but I don't think it relevant that he had the "wrong" wargear, Macharius was a Lord Solar a figure of huge power and influence and an imperial hero, I'm sure he had access to many weapon sets and suits of armour.

@ Purplefood: Couldnt remember the exact quote or which of the two books it was mentioned in true but its hardly relevant, either way he still spoke of a figure from 200 years in the future (even if Yarrick was 200+ at the time of Armageddon he would still be at best an orphan studying at the "political orphanage" (can never remember what its called) at the time of the events of the saint omnibus which span about 4 years in the 770s)

plus the fact that I don't reckon Abnett will finish Gaunt or the Tanith off before the Crusade ends.

Kanluwen wrote:200+ isn't supposed to be that far-fetched for the higher ups of the Imperium social strata, which you can bet your bum that Yarrick is going to be a part of.

Depends on where we was. 200+ isn't unheard of on planets with access to rejuvenat treatments, but nothing in Yarrick's fluff suggests he's the type to do them.

I don't think he'd likely have a choice.

He's a Big Bad Hero of the Imperium. He puts the juvenats on his skin or else he gets Orked again.

Kanluwen wrote:I don't think he'd likely have a choice.

He's a Big Bad Hero of the Imperium. He puts the juvenats on his skin or else he gets Orked again.

He's only a hero after Armageddon 2, which he retired after. The thing is, he was just another career commissar before then.

He retired after Armageddon 2, and then immediately went on a crusade with the Black Templars and a few others, was captured, then came back again to defend Armageddon for round 3.

He doesn't stay retired very well.

He went on Crusade AFTER Armageddon 3.

I'm going to have to reread some stuff because there's some fudges going down.

Kan, I've got my books here. I could post quotes if you want.

The WD that mentions him being captured has him captured after he returns from retirement from learning Ghazzy is still alive.

I'm not saying I don't believe you Plat, I'm saying that I need to go back and reread it because my memory's fudging up something that should be relatively simple to recall.

Pruney ninja fail...

To be honest, I went and grabbed them myself to remind me when the question was asked.

Platuan4th wrote:There's also a part where he mentions a statue of Macharius wearing Lightning Claws.

Macharius used a Bolt pistol, sword, and pimp cane.

Irrelevant, heroic art, including statues does not have to be accurate anyway. There is a nazi era painting of Hitler dressed as a knight in shinning armour, obviously the man never wore such a thing in real life. Bonnie Prince Charlie, the guy that led the Jacobite highlanders to their doom is often shown wearing a kilt and a highland bonnet though he only wore this after he'd lost and was trying to escape in disguise.
Maybe Macharius wore claws in some battle or maybe he just posed with the weapons for some publicity appearance, it doesn't really matter as the artist who carved his statue may simply have been told to have him with claws because it seemed more heroic.
For all we know the statue could have been of someone else and it was decided to change the name to Macharius because the previous hero was all but forgotten and the local government in charge of such things wanted to save money and avoid having to pay for a new statue. Gaunt may even have made a mistake about who the statue was, he's not perfect.

Maybe the Yarrick we are familiar with was named after the Great Yarrick that Gaunt knew of. Welcome to an infinite universe

Flinty wrote:Maybe the Yarrick we are familiar with was named after the Great Yarrick that Gaunt knew of. Welcome to an infinite universe

That is the other possibility.

BUt Yarrick is his last name....

He was a child of the Schola Progenium, he may be descended from a war-hero named Yarrick, which is how he earned his place in the Progenium (in much the same way that Gaunt, himself, was the son of an Imperial war hero), and carries on the family name.

Kanluwen wrote:He retired after Armageddon 2, and then immediately went on a crusade with the Black Templars and a few others, was captured, then came back again to defend Armageddon for round 3.

He doesn't stay retired very well.

Don't Forget, between the second and third war, Yarrick somehow ended up on Golgoltha and lost the Fortress of Arrogance to the orks, PLUS, he was captured, but Gorgutz let him go, wanting a good fight for the third round.

It says here in the Guard codex, that the Second War for Armageddon happened in 941, lasted until 944, and then he came out of retirement to hunt down Ghazghkull during 944. In 978, Yarrick was captured on Golgotha, lost the Arrogance to the orks, and escaped one month later. (pg. 24, Guard Codex, 5th Edition, Notable Battles of the IG)

Not really what qualifies as a plot hole, just yet another small mistake in one of the licensed products. These really aren't as rare as some may think.

I have to say, though, that I like some of the proposed "excuses" to deal with the writer's lapse - both concerning Yarrick as well as that Macharius statue.

They are one of the best written BL book series available, but sadly, no one is perfect...

Except the Emperor

and the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT CARRIER. (Sorry, had to say that)

Col_Torsin wrote:Except the Emperor

Not even him.

Platuan4th wrote:

Col_Torsin wrote:Except the Emperor

Not even him.

You got me there, I was just saying that so the haters didnt hate on me