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Okay, so here is attempt 2 of a GK list. I want to find a good one, and I hope this will do the trick
I fight Tau, Ork and Space Marines at the moment, so this is an all comers list. I have some of the models, but I can easily get the rest.
HQ:
Grandmaster - Incinerator, Digital Weapons
-4 Terminators w 2 Daemon hammers
Fast Attack:
Storm raven - Teleport homer, Hurricane bolter sponsons

Heavy:
Dreadnaught - multimelta, powerfist, stormbolter (vanilla)

(All the above are travelling in the storm raven)

Elite:
10 Purifiers - 2 Incinerators, 2 Psilencers, 2 Daemon hammers, 2 Falchions, Rhino

Troops:
5 terminators - Incinerator, Falchion, 1 Lance, 2 daemon hammers
(Deep striking to storm raven to assist HQ)

10 Strike Troops - 2 Psycannons, 2 Daemon hammers, Rhino

1500 total

Please rate and comment

That lone storm raven, with its AV12 will be easy to take out. The Tau in particular with - I'm sure your opponent fields them - all those twin linked rail guns will have it easy against it. And SM can field a variety of things to take out an AV12 vehicle that is unlikely to have any kind of LOS blocking terrain work for it.

The Storm Raven will be priority number 1 since it's carrying your HQ, a Dreadnought and some terminators, not to mention it's own impressive arsenal. Personally, I just don't get lists with 1 storm raven in them. I would take a LR instead.

Also, you're taking only 4 terminators in the SR. I think that terminators have to be in squads of five minimum. Paladins can be taken on their own, though.

Thanks for the tip, I was mainly thinking about the storm raven as a quick way to get close enough to the enemy and then use the teleport homer to send in the rest of the terminators. Also, I only have my hq 4 termies to cut cost and as back up until the rest come. If I move flat out the first turn, I get a 4+ cover save, so I could move my 18", have a save, release the troops and hopefully rain death. But I realize a LR is more effective (just more expensive), but isnt it true you can exit a LR and then assault? If so Im in.

Also, I am having second thoughts about the Grandmaster. I feel the urge to give him another secret weapon (either Metla bombs or psychotroke grenades)

Also also, can you take paladins as an HQ's retinue? if so I really have to re-plan this list

Psilencers aren't worth the points. Psycannon do better point for point in almost all circumstances and are more versatile. Incinerators are better too.

Try and pick your squads to maximise psycannon (or incinerators in some cases) as these are your best foot-carried wepons. Squads of 4 are poor choices for that reason.

Generally speaking a GK list should concentrate on one or two things. Dreadnoughts and Purifiers in Razorbacks (with Crowe as c-inc) are a popular and excellent combination at most point values. Draigo and Paladins with Dreadnoughts or Stormravens at higher points works better than many people seem to think (and can sometimes be okay at lower points too but allows little if any margin for error). Coteaz and Inquisitorial Weaklings backed by dreadnoughts seems fairly popular and a gunline of Strike Squads and Dreadnoughts works well too.

But taking a little of everything (or at least a 'one of these and one of those and one of this and another of that' lists tend to be less than the sum of their parts.

The problem I see with your list is that in turn one, your opponent has three targets: the Stormraven and the two Rhinos. At 1500 points many list will reliably be able to immobilise or destroy all three. Then where are you?

My justification to the psilencers on the purifiers was that a) it was free, and b) I can only shoot with two models from inside a rhino, so 12 shots seemed like a good choice.
I just have to say, that I really need to re-plan this list. I want to incorporate Purifiers, terminators, a dreadnaught (or knight), a reliable HQ (good in shooting, combat and wont die fast) and transport for most if not all of my models. Does anyone have any advice or any lists I can use as a reference?

Here is the general list that I run right now for 1500. Please note, total only adds up to 1332 right now, because I'm still trying to decide what to fill up the last bit of space.

This list is designed to make EVERY point count.

HQ - Ordo Maellus Inquisitor - BP, CS, PA, 3 x Servo Skulls

Troops
10 Man SS - DH, Psybolt, 2 x psycannon, rhino w/ HKM
10 Man SS - DH, Psybolt, 2 x psycannon, rhino w/ HKM
10 Man Terminator - Swords/Halberds/Hammers

Heavy
2 x Psyflelman Dreads - (2 x TL AC w/ psybolt)


The idea with this list, as previously mentioned, is to make every point count. Grey Knights are notoriously brutal, but they come at such a price you have to make sure you utilize everything you run to it's fullest. The motto to follow, in my mind, for grey knights is from 300 I believe:

"Give them nothing. But take from them, everything."

From the top...

HQ - cheap, lotta wounds, PA gives him decent survivability for cheap, servo skulls are VERY useful across ALL gametypes. Also, has a lot of stuff to upgrade to so that it can fill a few roles.

Strike Squads - shooting platform. Don't bother upgrading with anything, becuase w/ one attack they don't pay for their points. DH goes on the Justicar, just becuase he has 2 attacks, and this helps to take care of armor and high save units. Can combat squad, but I don't suggest it as it's a helluvah lot easier (from my experience) to whack a 5 man squad by firepower, or just knocking off a couple guys and watching them flee from the board. HKM is a must, has changed the playing field so many times for me by taking out anywhere from 1/3 to all my opponents transports or artillery.

Terminators
Termi's are termies. Good for their hard hitting nature. The standard swords work well, giving their 5+inval a bump to 4+inval. Great way to run without upping points. However, I suggest using halberds, or a daemonhammer if you're going to pop them in close to a high armor value target. The halberds have given me the best results, as hitting at initiative 6 really knocks people on their @$$ somtimes. But the big deal is that you can't go wrong with them, as they cost nothing to upgrade to!

Psyfleman dreads
WONDERFUL FIRING PLATFORMS. They're overused, I know, but it's for good reason. They have range, they have the strength to push through and wipe out toughness 4 units with ease (double that at a Str 8 w/ psybolt) and you can move and shoot. I ALWAYS leave one sitting on an objective or a key location to just wail on the opponent from the back end of the table.


So that's my list so far. Still have 168 pts to reach 1500, but everything so far has been tested tried and true (FOR ME ATLEAST).

My suggestion is to just try things out for yourself. I personally thought running anything BUT halberds on SS's was stupid, then I realized how much those points could have helped had I saved them.

Apply this same principle of less is more to any GK list and I'll guarantee you'll see that they are still effective, oftentimes more so than they would be with tons of extra upgrades.

Hope this helps!

To be perfectly honest, I had an idea list with an Ordo mallus inquisitor earlier, but the one thing that made me hesitant was is strength and toughness 3. My old list was almost exactly what I originally wrote, minus purifiers, add an Inquisitor with termie armour and 10 warrior acolytes (Power armour/stormbolter) in a chimera, and upgraded a terminator to be thawn.
Dont really know if that would be much better.

OH. Quick questions.
A) can you have a HQ unit join a troop unit (Ie a GM joining terminator squad. Fights together, moves together, shoots together) and have it still as two slots?
B) Verdict of 2 Storm ravens (one HQ, one purifiers) in comparison to 1 Land raider (HQ and squad of termies. This seems better and a LOT cheaper)
C) Opinion of warrior acolytes. They seems nice. Cheap as hell, but low points and no power weapons. I'd rather put in the points for more troops.
D)Is Dreadnaught with 2 TLAC (psybolt) awesome? I tend to see it a lot, should I invest?
E)Should I bother putting in points to have a teleport homer or an equivalent? I'm debating putting everything on the table at once, but teleporting to provide instant back up is bad ass.

A) Yes. It is HQ and Troop (or whatever)

B) Two Stormravens perform, in my experience, more than twice as well as one does. But they must be reserved against most armies if you don't get first turn.

C) If you're running stormravens a unit of Crusaders and Death Cult mixed roughly 50/50 can be devastating I believe (though I have not run that myself).

D) A Dreadnought with TLAC and psybolts is a good choice. A Venerable Dreadnought is actually much, much better point for point (though many people seem to stubbornly resist that fact, the maths doesn't lie).

To follow up with Artemo...

A, B, C, all are agreed with.

D, I can't say cause I've never run the Ven Dread before.

E) Teleport homers are a good thing to have ONLY if you're going to have a LOT of DS beyond deployment, or if you have a serious plan. Like run a tough squad of heavy hitters right into the front lines, then deepstrike a squad of termies or a NDK right in there with them.

The biggest things to having a successful army is this:

1) You HAVE to play to your style
2) You have to have a focused method of play for an army.

If you try to do long range when all you love to do is fisticuffs, you're going to be miserable.

Likewise, if you try to build a general all around list, you're going to get general, all around results. Figure out what YOU want to play, what units YOU like the most, and build a list around that. Grey Knights have absolutely NOTHING in their dex (contrary to popular opinion) that is just totally worthless. You just have to know how the units play, and how to use them together.

Case in point, one of the best setups I've ever seen was using a squad of termies to encircle another unit to provide cover saves while they trekked across the board into assault. Just gotta learn to run, then learn to sprint.

Markillius08 wrote:
The biggest things to having a successful army is this:

1) You HAVE to play to your style
2) You have to have a focused method of play for an army.

YES!!!! I agree with this as much as it is humanly possible to do so.

I field a foot slogging draigowing army at any thing above 1500 point battles and literally just push them all up the table with a shiet ton of psy cannons. yes, the enemy has few targets, but this army is truly DEVASTATING. plus, as per buying the army, its extraordinarily cheap.

DrexMartell wrote:

Markillius08 wrote:
The biggest things to having a successful army is this:

1) You HAVE to play to your style
2) You have to have a focused method of play for an army.

YES!!!! I agree with this as much as it is humanly possible to do so.

I field a foot slogging draigowing army at any thing above 1500 point battles and literally just push them all up the table with a shiet ton of psy cannons. yes, the enemy has few targets, but this army is truly DEVASTATING. plus, as per buying the army, its extraordinarily cheap.

Lol I've heard extraordinary things about the Draigowing force. Never tried one myself, though if this trade I'm workin on goes through I'll have a grand total of 25 termies. That's enough to proxy for a Draigowing right lol?

Draigowing is one of those that for me, It's too simple. Like you said, just drop them on the field, move forward. Wash, rinse, repeat. Yes, you have to figure out solutions to problems that you will face, undoubtedly hurdles have to be jumped, but in the end it's all about the Terminators slamming their boots up your @$$ in close combat. It's fun for a change from my normal style, and undoubtedly effective, but it's just not my thing.

Which is again, why I say....

Know your playstyle. Focus your army list. TRIM THAT FAT!!!

alright, here is an amazing site for you to look up theory craft on the grey knights codex http://www.grey-knights-40k.blogspot.com/

it has the draigowing stats baseline for ya to look at for building a 1750 army, and that will just use 20 terminators (as paladins) and if ya need to proxxy 1 in as draigo for a grandtotal of 21 models for 1750. yes, it seems like very, VERY few models but can be a truly terrifying force to deal with.

DrexMartell wrote:alright, here is an amazing site for you to look up theory craft on the grey knights codex http://www.grey-knights-40k.blogspot.com/

it has the draigowing stats baseline for ya to look at for building a 1750 army, and that will just use 20 terminators (as paladins) and if ya need to proxxy 1 in as draigo for a grandtotal of 21 models for 1750. yes, it seems like very, VERY few models but can be a truly terrifying force to deal with.

Already seen it. See, had things gone down differently (IE the deathwing not having so many tiny squads, I think things would have been different. Just my opinion.

BUT YES!!! Great source of information.

The big difference between deathwing and the draigowing list however is that draigowing has BOTH ranged anti vehicle and melee anti-vehicle.

plus, if you wish to combat squad off your paladins, you can do so quite easily, just keep all the psycannons within a unit and have the "assault" paladins in another unit. I think this concept could work quite well as well if put into action.

DrexMartell wrote:The big difference between deathwing and the draigowing list however is that draigowing has BOTH ranged anti vehicle and melee anti-vehicle.

So does Deathwing. Cyclone Missile Launchers are far superior to Psycannons, plus they have access to the updated TH/SS, so they're better in CC.

Here's the problem with your list OP. You've got 600 points sitting in an AV12 vehicle, with zero long ranged firepower and zero ability to catch more mobile armies (Dark Eldar, Eldar, Ravenwing, etc). What does this mean? Any good opponent will focus down your Stormraven turn one, then spend the rest of the game kiting you because you have no long range shooting to stop them with. Makes sense?

My advice: Cut all the superfluous 'cool' upgrades and concentrate on taking more units, more long range shooting and more mobility. So cut the whole thing and start again.

I mainly wanted to post this idea to get advice and to understand other people's lists.

I hope my new list will have a Grandmaster (Brother captain if Im short on points), a land raider with terminators, troops and purifiers in rhinos and a dreadnaught. If I have points remaining, I may throw in a retinue. Or say screw it and just add more termies as a troop. Verdict on that? If you think that would make a nice list I will start doing some math right now.

EDIT: Ugh. It feels like I'm having a meltdown with transport.
I could always take 2 storm ravens. They can go cruising speed and fire 2 weapons. If I took multimelta and assault cannons, I'd have an effective range of 36". If its table halfs I can shoot anywhere. And not to mention carrying 2 dreadnaughts Psybolt TLACs
Or option 2. Land raider with paladins. Sure. AV 14. Sure. 2 weapons if I move 6". Effective range of 30 if I take a standard crusader. Also, less vehicle range death. I could throw on a multi melta, but that would take one of the 2 weapons fired, right?

This seems harder than I wanted
Land raiders are more survivable, storm ravens are cheaper (individually, with 2 Im spending a LOT) and can have a better effective range.
Also, When it says for Spirit of the machine "you can fire one more weapon than supposed to, can you fire 1 if it says no weapons?

On the Storm Raven in the GK Codex:


These guys are quite Nice. Here is my preferred setup.

Assault Cannon (most deadly, but short range)
Multi-melta (way better then a heavy bolter)
Hurricane Bolters (if you have the points, they are okay)


If you move 12" You can fire all of your guns
Assault Cannon+Defensive Hurricanes+Defensive Mind Strikes. Ruin an infantry unit's day (especially if it is lead by a psyker)
Then use PotMS to slag a tank.


If you move flat out (24") you can still use the Multi-Melta to slag a tank. (36" Melta Threat Range is very useful)



I think that 2 Storm Ravens would work better with a Librarian than with a Grand Master. The Librarian can cast Shrouding and the Storm Ravens would gain a 3+ Cover save when they move flat out. This makes them quite durable.

At 2k I want you to think about this:

My hardcore buddy meets me for a game, he is bragging about his 2 new GK builds. The one he played against me was this:
inquisitor
2 x ven dreads w/ mm and hf
2 x stormraven w/ mm and ass cann

2 x 10 gkss hammer, 2 x psycannon

10 interceptors hammer, 2 x psycannon

3 x psyfleman dread

I don't care who you are, that is scary

Inigo Montoya wrote:At 2k I want you to think about this:

inquisitor
2 x ven dreads w/ mm and hf
2 x stormraven w/ mm and ass cann

2 x 10 gkss hammer, 2 x psycannon

10 interceptors hammer, 2 x psycannon

3 x psyfleman dread

Man, troops with Ven dreads flying at you in a storm raver (times 2) is scary enough, but add the psyflemen, and I'm gaking my pants at any table smaller than 50"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another quick question that I have been wondering, is it worth it to take psybolt ammo on a storm raven or land raider? I dont know, because with the boosted strength, pretty much everything stops being defensive weapons.
Also, I am leaning towards a LR Crusader, (one costs less than 2 storm raven) and sure, psybolt ammo would be great for the hurricane sponsons, but if I need a quick multimelta, I couldnt fire all of them in that situation at cruising, right? (Stupid question simplified, a multi melta on top of the transport still counts as the vehicle firing one of it's limited assault weapons, right?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, I think I got a pretty decent new list. It will be up in a minute, tell me how you feel when its up

Here is a link to the new list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/382128.page#3054081