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Mephiston 250

(5) Honour Guard, Jumppacks, 4x meltagun, 4x flamer 225

2x Priest w/ Jumppack 150

(10) Assault squad, 2x meltagun, Sarge w/ Power Fist 235

(10) Assault squad, 2x meltagun, Sarge w/ Power Fist 235

(10) Assault squad, 2x meltagun, Sarge w/ Power Fist 235

(5) Assault Squad, 1x meltagun, Sarge w/ Infernus Pistol and Lightning Claw 140

(5) Assault Squad, 1x meltagun, Sarge w/ Infernus Pistol and Lightning Claw 140

(5) Assault Squad, 1x meltagun, Sarge w/ Infernus Pistol and Lightning Claw 140

= 1750

6x Doublemelta squads, 3x FnP/FC bubbles.

Mephiston, 50 FnP marines, gakloads of melta, makes GK players cry. This list isn't exactly tailored to beat GK, but it should do well against them, while still being well-rounded enough to be considered competitive.

The 5 man assault squads have Claws because I had points left over, and so they can kill off other small MEQ squads that are camping in cover or something.

Thoughts?

4 Meltaguns and 4 Flamers in a single unit? Pretty sure you can't do that.

I dont understand how it's any sort of real counter against grey Knights.

In fact...I have a grey knight list and I'd love to see this across the board against me.

It can be done with this unit. Id like to hear why this list Grey Knight counter.

Deadshane1 wrote:I dont understand how it's any sort of real counter against grey Knights.

In fact...I have a grey knight list and I'd love to see this across the board against me.

Think about it.

I'll give you a hint: FnP, Mephiston, melta.

What does your list contain, btw?

I'm not saying this list is a counter against ALL GK lists, just the ubiquitous Coteaz/Crowe Purifier + Dreadnought + Psyrazor spam, which is popping up everywhere in my meta.

Of course he can take melta and flamers on Honor Guards.

Jabbdo, I alwais pay attention to your lists because you almost everytime find a particular and original while effective setup.

This time, by the way, I really can't see how an army like this one will seriously disturb a well builded GK army.

Of course isn't an easy list to play with, as all the DoA lists but a part the Mephiston+Honor Guard very aggressive combo everything else will suffer just like anybody the usual GK abilities, Hammerhand, RAD Grenades, Sanctuary, I6 Force Weapons etc etc.

Wow....nice sneak.

Noone would EVER expect FnP or melta in a list. Lot's of Grey Knights will get caught off guard by that one.

NOT!

You know that DoA doesnt work against Grey Knights right?(Warp Quake anyone?) Your melta is nullified by their superior ranged firepower.

Riflemen dont care about your FNP, neither do any of the CC weapons in the entire army.

Your CC get's pwned by DCA/Crusader/Psychotrope/Rad combos.

Mephiston, since there is nothing in the army to block Line of sight to him...will get shot off the table by a smart player b-4 he ever gets to assault.

Beleive me....there are MANY things to counter this army with. It's one dimentional and NOT scary to Vet players. It's DoA spam. It's been done. It's expected.

A few things of note:

1) No Matter what, your Assault Squads and Honor Guard are going to go after some of the Grey Knight units, if not most. Halberds are cheap and priceless...

2) Mephiston will be focus fired if not murdered in assault. You have to remember if he gets charged he's going Initiative 1. And I guarantee almost every Psycannon in the army would be pointed at him.

3) Feel No Pain doesn't matter much against Power Weapons.

Let me throw this little gem of a Grey Knight list up and see how you would approach it:

H.Q.

Librarian
Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Quicksilver -170

Elites

Paladins 10x
Apothecary/Sword, Brotherhood Banner, Daemon Hammer, Halberd, Sword, Sword/Psycannon, Halberd/Psycannon, Hammer/Psycannon, Halberd/Psycannon, Daemon Hammer -750

Troops

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Heavy Support

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Searchlight -136

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Searchlight -136

Total: 1750

The theme to this army: "Come at me Bro"

One thing that would probably help your Grey Knight "counter" list would be a librarian with a hood. GK are very powerful when you let them use their psychic abilities unmolested. A hood does wonders for that.

Show me a GK list that can kill 50 FnP marines in 2 turns. Really. 2 turns is all I need to get all my stuff in range (24"+D6" movement will put me in range of anywhere you are)

I get FnP against your Psyrazors. I get FnP against 5/6 wounds caused by your Psycannons. What does that leave you with? Oh yeah, your Psyflemen, which will kill 0,987 marines each, per turn. Gratz!

Melta annoys GK because it kills vehicles dead, instead of suppressing them (which GK doesn't care about).

What are you gonna kill Meph with, realistically? Psycannon rends? Because that's probably your best shot (and its a pretty crappy one at that). Not only does he rape your little 5 man PA GK squads that fall out of your Razor wrecks, he also nullifies your Fortitude and Hammerhand casts. Fun fun fun!!

You do realise I don't have to DS the army, right? Against GK, I'd probably actually rather deploy it, so I can overwhelm you with FnP marines instead of dropping down piecemeal and dying to massed Force weapon charges.

I'm not really seeing how this is a counter to GK lists either.

Mephiston seems like a horrible idea, what exactly is he bringing to the table? I personally don't think he should be in most the lists I see him in, but this one especially. Psychotrope nades and Reinforced Aegis are going to murder him.

While not in every list, Vindicares love lists like this one too. No long range shooting to worry about, and several juicy Priests that are perfect targets.

Other than that I don't see what would keep GKs from kiting the BA for a couple turns then finishing off weakened squads in CC.

Can you explain the list a little better maybe?

While I do agree that the list is not a true counter to gk, the initiative 6 halberds is only 2 attacks, and they die like regular marines so if you can kill 1-2 with melta/bolt pistol going in followed by the str 5 attacks and the powerfist the troop choices should die rather easily. If you can take out the three razorbacks you should be able to win objective missions due to your mobility and large number of scoring units. While the paladin unit is a huge deathstar they only have a 5+ against melta weapons. GKs are good but because of the lower number of units you cant make as many mistakes.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:A few things of note:

1) No Matter what, your Assault Squads and Honor Guard are going to go after some of the Grey Knight units, if not most. Halberds are cheap and priceless...

2) Mephiston will be focus fired if not murdered in assault. You have to remember if he gets charged he's going Initiative 1. And I guarantee almost every Psycannon in the army would be pointed at him.

3) Feel No Pain doesn't matter much against Power Weapons.

Let me throw this little gem of a Grey Knight list up and see how you would approach it:

H.Q.

Librarian
Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Quicksilver -170

Elites

Paladins 10x
Apothecary/Sword, Brotherhood Banner, Daemon Hammer, Halberd, Sword, Sword/Psycannon, Halberd/Psycannon, Hammer/Psycannon, Halberd/Psycannon, Daemon Hammer -750

Troops

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Heavy Support

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Searchlight -136

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Searchlight -136

Total: 1750

The theme to this army: "Come at me Bro"

Just thought I'd point out that this list can hardly be called a "take all comers list" thanks to the fact that 750pts of your army is invested in a unit of t4 multiwound models that die like bitches to melta/lascannons/railguns, but ok..

I'd deploy everything, to begin with. No DS.

Objective missions, I'd kill your strike squads and autowin (melta cracks open Razors, assaults clean up)

Paladins could be dealt with via massed melta fire, using one squad to bubblewrap the rest so even if you survive you'll just kill a 5 man squad and get pounded by melta again next turn. Meph cleans up when there are only a couple left.

I could pretty much ignore most of your shooting, if I deal with the Paladin bomb its GG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Creeping Dementia wrote:
Mephiston seems like a horrible idea, what exactly is he bringing to the table? I personally don't think he should be in most the lists I see him in, but this one especially. Psychotrope nades and Reinforced Aegis are going to murder him.

Other than that I don't see what would keep GKs from kiting the BA for a couple turns then finishing off weakened squads in CC.

Mephiston brings a hood and the ability to kill small GK squads (which almost all GK lists contain) in CC before they get to do jack gak.

How exactly are you kiting units that move faster than you do?

People need to realize that GK have very little shooting that can reliably kill FnP marines. You need ~3 Psybolter razors to kill a single FnP marine. You're facing 50 of them. Good luck.

This list is hardly a hard counter to a GK all comers list. Why don't you just play test this in your meta and come back to us with the results. If you really believe it's an effective counter, then you shouldn't need any advice, eh?

If you don't deepstrike that leaves you with how many turns of crossing the board to volumes of firepower?

I mean seriously, you think Mephiston is always going to make his tests while dealing with the Libby's psychic hood? Is every unit going to make that difficult terrain test when the Libby Casts Sanctuary? Is all of your melta going to be autowin when you're dealing with 3+ Cover Saved Vehicles and more than likely a 3+ (if not 4+ but only a jackass would deploy Paladins behind Razorbacks hoping for a cover save)for the Paladins?

Sure missions with Objectives will be a bitch; then again, when aren't they? I'm not really counting on my Marines in the Razorbacks to destroy 10 man assault squads, I'm just looking at them to finish off what crosses the board.

Dreadnoughts are more for kicks and giggles than anything else, pretty much to make it "Well Rounded".

The fact is, you'll probably be jumping across the board because you don't want to chance the mishap. You'll be hopping from cover to cover hoping for the best. You will have 1-2 turns of no shooting coming from your army while the Grey Knights will be shooting from...oh yeah, that's right, Turn 1...with pretty much their whole army.

All of your Marines are going to have to fight at some point if those Paladins run amok, and I guarantee any squad they touch will be murdered.

The all important issue here is, you're not just going to swoop in and kill everything. This list isn't even "optimized" or whatever, but it will still make you work for every single point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Jabbdo

Your autowin strategy is flawed beyond belief. You're starting on the board, tell me how the hell you intend on popping my Razorbacks all at once and charging the insides without receiving the ass handing of your life? Seriously, you're assuming none of the powers will go off, you're going to kill everything you shoot, and that a majority of your army will have survived crossing the field...That's just blatantly ignoring the facts of what is put before you. You're going to fail terrain tests and fall short on the assault, you won't be roflpowning Paladins with Melta if they always have cover and it is at worst a 4+, you won't be walking through Razorbacks with 3+ cover, and I can guarantee that 2-3 of those squads will either be gone or depleted to the point of no return by the time they him my lines.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:If you don't deepstrike that leaves you with how many turns of crossing the board to volumes of firepower?

I mean seriously, you think Mephiston is always going to make his tests while dealing with the Libby's psychic hood? Is every unit going to make that difficult terrain test when the Libby Casts Sanctuary? Is all of your melta going to be autowin when you're dealing with 3+ Cover Saved Vehicles and more than likely a 3+ (if not 4+ but only a jackass would deploy Paladins behind Razorbacks hoping for a cover save)for the Paladins?

Sure missions with Objectives will be a bitch; then again, when aren't they? I'm not really counting on my Marines in the Razorbacks to destroy 10 man assault squads, I'm just looking at them to finish off what crosses the board.

Dreadnoughts are more for kicks and giggles than anything else, pretty much to make it "Well Rounded".

The fact is, you'll probably be jumping across the board because you don't want to chance the mishap. You'll be hopping from cover to cover hoping for the best. You will have 1-2 turns of no shooting coming from your army while the Grey Knights will be shooting from...oh yeah, that's right, Turn 1...with pretty much their whole army.

All of your Marines are going to have to fight at some point if those Paladins run amok, and I guarantee any squad they touch will be murdered.

The all important issue here is, you're not just going to swoop in and kill everything. This list isn't even "optimized" or whatever, but it will still make you work for every single point.

In pitched deployment (for example) 12" deplo+12"move+D6"+12"move is 37"- 42" down the board on t2. I think that'll put me in range.

Nope, Mephiston isnt going to pass everything, of course, but he will be able to fly around while outside your 24" hood bubble. Nope, I won't make every difficult terrain roll. Nope, my melta won't autowin. But neither will you pass every Psychic test with Meph nearby, so having Shrouding/Sanctuary is by no means a given.

Of course the Paladins will murder everything they touch. That's why I can't let them touch me at all. I've got superior mobility, so I should be able to avoid them until enough of them die to melta so Meph can jump in and finish them off.

Deadshane1 wrote:Wow....nice sneak.

Noone would EVER expect FnP or melta in a list. Lot's of Grey Knights will get caught off guard by that one.

NOT!

You know that DoA doesnt work against Grey Knights right?(Warp Quake anyone?) Your melta is nullified by their superior ranged firepower.

Riflemen dont care about your FNP, neither do any of the CC weapons in the entire army.

Your CC get's pwned by DCA/Crusader/Psychotrope/Rad combos.

Mephiston, since there is nothing in the army to block Line of sight to him...will get shot off the table by a smart player b-4 he ever gets to assault.

Beleive me....there are MANY things to counter this army with. It's one dimentional and NOT scary to Vet players. It's DoA spam. It's been done. It's expected.

1. You should really tone down your attitude. It comes accross as rude, and uncalled for.

2. While nothing "blocks" LOS to Mephiston, he does get cover saves from other units infront of him. And Multiple squads can make in hard for others to see him.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:
@Jabbdo

Your autowin strategy is flawed beyond belief. You're starting on the board, tell me how the hell you intend on popping my Razorbacks all at once and charging the insides without receiving the ass handing of your life? Seriously, you're assuming none of the powers will go off, you're going to kill everything you shoot, and that a majority of your army will have survived crossing the field...That's just blatantly ignoring the facts of what is put before you. You're going to fail terrain tests and fall short on the assault, you won't be roflpowning Paladins with Melta if they always have cover and it is at worst a 4+, you won't be walking through Razorbacks with 3+ cover, and I can guarantee that 2-3 of those squads will either be gone or depleted to the point of no return by the time they him my lines.

I dont have an autowin strategy. I'm saying those paladins WILL die to melta, if I shoot enough of it at them. Period. By bubblewrapping with a 5 man squad or some such, I can keep the rest of my army safe from them while continuing to pound them with melta. As they are the biggest threat in the army, and the only unit that can reliably kill Meph, if I kill them I win.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but your shooting really will be inefficient against FnP marines. Your Paladins will kill around 5-6 marines with their shooting. Your 3 Razors will kill around ONE marine per turn, your dreads will kill ONE each. Strike squads will account for around two more each (assuming you're firing with the psycannon heavy profile). That's 9 marines altogether, from the rest of your army.

Sorry if I'm coming off as douchey, I'm tired and annoyed in general (unrelated reasons).

It just it feels like people are severely overestimating the effect of GK shooting against FnP marines. Do the math, people. Count how many FnP marines a Psybolter razor kills, or a single Psycannon, or a Dread. I think you'll be surprised.

Jabbdo wrote:
Mephiston brings a hood and the ability to kill small GK squads (which almost all GK lists contain) in CC before they get to do jack gak.

How exactly are you kiting units that move faster than you do?

People need to realize that GK have very little shooting that can reliably kill FnP marines. You need ~3 Psybolter razors to kill a single FnP marine. You're facing 50 of them. Good luck.

Did someone piss in your Cheerios this morning or something? Or are you always like this. If you really just want people that agree with you to post, please let us know in the first post so we don't waste our time.

I personally don't run GK as MSU, and I even take Interceptors . Even foot squads cut your advancing speed in half if they're moving away from you, and they don't have to stay away forever, just long enough to weaken the squads enough to beat them in CC.

I don't have to show you an army that can kill 50 FNP marines in 2 turns.

All I have to do is show you an army that can weaken you enough to fight you off b4 you can decisivly knock a significant portion of my army out.

...which is pretty much any dedicated Grey Knight shooty list.

It's not like people havent come up with jump pack armies bfore...and the same amount of people have factored them into their defense/offense.

Nothing innovative or surprising here.

gpfunk wrote:This list is hardly a hard counter to a GK all comers list. Why don't you just play test this in your meta and come back to us with the results. If you really believe it's an effective counter, then you shouldn't need any advice, eh?

I will be playtesting, and I'll keep you guys posted as I get results. Advice is always welcome, but TBH all I've received so far is comments on how the list sucks

Though nothing wrong with that, its refreshing to have to defend your own lists against criticizms, having to articulate your own opinions on the list often helps to organize your thoughts on it, and can help to reveal flaws in the list which you might not notice yourself.

To be perfectly honest, I would say that Jump Pack Librarians would be significantly better than just Mephiston.

They can hide in the squads while buffing their abilities and hell...you could just Blood Lance a Line of Paladins or Razorbacks and have a better chance than with a Close Combat Monster that would have to try and not get assaulted and end up going last while being singled out like that one white guy at the million man march...

Creeping Dementia wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:
Mephiston brings a hood and the ability to kill small GK squads (which almost all GK lists contain) in CC before they get to do jack gak.

How exactly are you kiting units that move faster than you do?

People need to realize that GK have very little shooting that can reliably kill FnP marines. You need ~3 Psybolter razors to kill a single FnP marine. You're facing 50 of them. Good luck.

Did someone piss in your Cheerios this morning or something? Or are you always like this. If you really just want people that agree with you to post, please let us know in the first post so we don't waste our time.

I personally don't run GK as MSU, and I even take Interceptors . Even foot squads cut your advancing speed in half if they're moving away from you, and they don't have to stay away forever, just long enough to weaken the squads enough to beat them in CC.

I dont want people to agree with me. I'd just like if people considered what they are saying. If you think the list sucks, at least provide some sort of actual criticizm. Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadshane1 wrote:I don't have to show you an army that can kill 50 FNP marines in 2 turns.

All I have to do is show you an army that can weaken you enough to fight you off b4 you can decisivly knock a significant portion of my army out.

OK...

You still haven't showed me the army?

Jabbdo wrote:

I will be playtesting, and I'll keep you guys posted as I get results. Advice is always welcome, but TBH all I've received so far is comments on how the list sucks

Though nothing wrong with that, its refreshing to have to defend your own lists against criticizms, having to articulate your own opinions on the list often helps to organize your thoughts on it, and can help to reveal flaws in the list which you might not notice yourself.

Sounds good, looking forward to the battle reports. Just make sure when you play that you know all of the things that will negate your FnP. Dreads with autocannons will instakill your marines, as will power weapons which all GK come equipped with. Also note, that if you are within melta range against a meched up GK army, you'll be in assault range. Make sure to pick your assault targets as well. If you come up against halberds you're in serious trouble, striking first and negating your fnp and your armor save. Don't over estimate your mobility, GK won't be quite as fast, but will be able to keep up, and threaten your melta units.

Oh, and I don't think you answered this question. But can a 5 man honor guard have 4 melta guns AND 4 flamers?

Unholy_Martyr wrote:A few things of note:

1) No Matter what, your Assault Squads and Honor Guard are going to go after some of the Grey Knight units, if not most. Halberds are cheap and priceless...

2) Mephiston will be focus fired if not murdered in assault. You have to remember if he gets charged he's going Initiative 1. And I guarantee almost every Psycannon in the army would be pointed at him.

3) Feel No Pain doesn't matter much against Power Weapons.

Let me throw this little gem of a Grey Knight list up and see how you would approach it:

H.Q.

Librarian
Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Quicksilver -170

Elites

Paladins 10x
Apothecary/Sword, Brotherhood Banner, Daemon Hammer, Halberd, Sword, Sword/Psycannon, Halberd/Psycannon, Hammer/Psycannon, Halberd/Psycannon, Daemon Hammer -750

Troops

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Strike Squad 5x
Psycannon, Justicar w/ MC Daemonhammer, 2x Halberd, Razorback: Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight -186

Heavy Support

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Searchlight -136

Dreadnought
2x Twin Linked Autocannons, Psybolt Ammunition, Searchlight -136

Total: 1750

The theme to this army: "Come at me Bro"

I agree with your points and laughed at when you said
The theme to this army: "Come at me Bro" lol

Glad someone else could enjoy that little morsel of humor.

Jabbdo wrote:Show me a GK list that can kill 50 FnP marines in 2 turns. Really. 2 turns is all I need to get all my stuff in range (24"+D6" movement will put me in range of anywhere you are)

I get FnP against your Psyrazors. I get FnP against 5/6 wounds caused by your Psycannons. What does that leave you with? Oh yeah, your Psyflemen, which will kill 0,987 marines each, per turn. Gratz!

Melta annoys GK because it kills vehicles dead, instead of suppressing them (which GK doesn't care about).

What are you gonna kill Meph with, realistically? Psycannon rends? Because that's probably your best shot (and its a pretty crappy one at that). Not only does he rape your little 5 man PA GK squads that fall out of your Razor wrecks, he also nullifies your Fortitude and Hammerhand casts. Fun fun fun!!

You do realise I don't have to DS the army, right? Against GK, I'd probably actually rather deploy it, so I can overwhelm you with FnP marines instead of dropping down piecemeal and dying to massed Force weapon charges.

What are you going to do about the 10man pallie squad huh?
And now I guess I have to have eveery one of my GK lists edited by deadshane1 and Unholy_Martyr

Khorne Flakes wrote:
What are you going to do about the 10man pallie squad huh?

Melta>t4 multiwound guys with a 5++ (OK, usually a 4+ cover with possible 3+). Get enough melta in range and yeah, those paladins WILL die.

Yeah, Honour Guard can exchange both bolt pistols and CCW for various equipment, so each guy in the squad has both a flamer and a meltagun.

Just a point, I do play GK myself, and can honestly say I don't know if my Coteaz list would beat this.

Jabbdo wrote:

Khorne Flakes wrote:
What are you going to do about the 10man pallie squad huh?

Melta>t4 multiwound guys with a 5++ (OK, usually a 4+ cover with possible 3+). Get enough melta in range and yeah, those paladins WILL die.

Yeah, Honour Guard can exchange both bolt pistols and CCW for various equipment, so each guy in the squad has both a flamer and a meltagun.

Just a point, I do play GK myself, and can honestly say I don't know if my Coteaz list would beat this.

Yes..... YOURS. Who said you were a vet GK player like other people that said this list will fail?

Really? You don't even know what list I play. You don't know how many games I have played with Grey Knights. You have absolutely no idea of my proficiency with them, and yet you assume that I'm an utter n00b.

lol.

If you look at my GK list I think you'll notice that its a pretty typical competitive Coteaz Psyrazor/Purifier/Dread list. Not a fething single stormraven mess of crappiness or Arco flagellant über CC army composed of gak.

I do know how to play GK, thanks.