Glancing Hit on an Open Top Vehicle - How would you play it?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Sigmatron**

Like the title says curious how most people play and/or interpret how this is played.

Scenario - Weapon shoots at an open topped vehicle, gets a glancing hit and rolls a 1.

A) you combine the -2 and +1 for a total of -1 to the chart and the result = 1

B) you subtract the -2 thus making it a 1, then add the +1 = 2.

C) you add +1 then subtract -2 = 1

Thoughts?

**Grenat**

I would go with A)
Not sure about that, I never play with or against open-toped vehicle :x

Rules expert will determine that better, but I doubt that the final result can be 2 on the damage chart...

**marv335**

A)
Work out the total modifier to the roll, then apply it.

**gr1m_dan**

I've always done it like A)

Nothing can go below a 1 even with mod's.

Seems to be fair IMO.

**filbert**

I think I would go with A) too but I seem to remember seeing here that the rules state that the damage roll can never go below 1 (ie. so no matter what, you will inflict that result) so I guess that technically means that you can't go into negative figures when subtracting modifiers? Not sure really...

**Canadian 5th**

You add modifiers first and then role to the best of my understanding.

**sennacherib**

My vote is for A. Add up all of the modifiers and then roll the dice.

**nosferatu1001**

A. Note that it doesnt actually matter - the table says "1 or less"

**Pedro Kantor**

Answer A is the one to use.

**jbunny**

Unless I am misreading the choices A and C are the same choice. In addition the order does not matter so -2+1= 1-2

**Akroma06**

Definently A. It is a total modifier of -1. So it is shaken.

**Portugal Jones**

Neither B nor C actually make any sense. This one doesn't even need a vote, because the rules are pretty clear about what to do when the damage results are 1 or less.

**Selafyne**

Definatly A) as you apply both the modifiers at the same time same as 1+(1-2) and you cannot get 0.

**time wizard**

Selafyne wrote:Definatly A) as you apply both the modifiers at the same time same as 1+(1-2) and you cannot get 0.

You can get a 0 result.
Tank takes a glancing hit.
Damage modifier is -2.
A '2' is rolled for damage.
2 - 2 = 0, you now got a 0, the vehicle is shaken because 1 or less is shaken.

As to the OP, A is correct.
If you get a glancing hit on an open topped vehicle, the correct damage modifier is -1 (-2+1=-1).

**Sigmatron**

A is how I have always played the game.. In a tournament Saturday a Judge ruled B and cost me the tournament

**daedalus**

I believe A is the appropriate answer, and is how I would play it.

**Serder**

i play it as a

**nosferatu1001**

Selafyne wrote:Definatly A) as you apply both the modifiers at the same time same as 1+(1-2) and you cannot get 0.

YES. YOU. CAN

Have a look at your rulebook under the damage chart. Note it states "1 or less"

**monkeyh**

Definitely A) - then pound him with more heavy weapons until I bust him open! - BWAH HA HA HAAA!

**Selafyne**

I understood my failure ok. and i played a game yesterday where i didi get some zeros but then i got thinking about the 4th edition as i had the 4th edition quick reference on me which i should get rid of really the rules are confusing enough now.

**time wizard**

Selafyne wrote:I understood my failure ok. and i played a game yesterday where i didi get some zeros but then i got thinking about the 4th edition as i had the 4th edition quick reference on me which i should get rid of really the rules are confusing enough now.

Take your old reference sheet, crumple it up, throw it away.

Then click here, http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat410004&categoryId=1000019§ion=&aId=3400013 click on the warhammer 40K reference sheet and print out the new reference sheet!

Hope this helps!

EDIT: Have to add one thing, on the reference sheet it shows a vehicle damage of 1 = shaken, but by the rules it is 1 or less.

You might want to note it on the sheet.

**Samus2210**

A is the way I've played it, and still have arguments with my Orkie opponents claiming anything less then a 1 means nothing happens...

**Grakmar**

A, B, and C are all the same answer. The OP just made a math mistake.

Option A: 1+1-2 = 0

Option B: (1-2)+1 = 0

Option C: (1+1)-2 = 0

They are all the same thing. It's the transitive property of addition.

There is no rule saying that 1 is a minimum. The lowest vehicle damage results (that I can think of) would be -2, which is perfectly valid.

**Selafyne**

time wizard wrote:EDIT: Have to add one thing, on the reference sheet it shows a vehicle damage of 1 = shaken, but by the rules it is 1 or less.

You might want to note it on the sheet.

So you cannot get a zero then as i said before i thought i was wrong.

**Sabet**

He didn't make a mistake as such. He just limited the number to 1, so that it would never reach 0. so for b it would be 1-2 = 1 + 1 =2. I've played it a always.

**Selafyne**

Also thanks for the refence sheet link.

**Talamare**

-2 (glance) + 1(open topped) = -1(modifier)
1(open topped) - 2(glance) = -1 (modifier)

1(dice roll) - 1(modifier) = 0
-1(modifier) + 1(dice roll) = 0

**lixulana**

the vehicle damage table clearly says 1 or less not minimum of one.

so this is correctly 1(die roll) -2 (glance) +1 (open top) = 0. or 1-2+1 = 0

the judge for some reason was trying to do something that i dont even know how to write the proper equation for, i'm not sure how to write (1-2) min 1 +1.

**time wizard**

Selafyne wrote:
time wizard wrote:EDIT: Have to add one thing, on the reference sheet it shows a vehicle damage of 1 = shaken, but by the rules it is 1 or less.

You might want to note it on the sheet.

So you cannot get a zero then as i said before i thought i was wrong.

As was noted, you can still get a zero result.

0 is indeed "less than 1" so the shaken result would apply.

**Zid**

A