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Ok so I was discussing unit fillers with a friend on the weekend and we were debating what is acceptible and what isn't. Obviously I imagine this varies dependant on your play style and what aspects of the hobby you enjoy so I thought I'd get a thread up where we could see everyones opinions.

For those that don't know the term unit filler it is when you get a larger base fitted into a movement tray or ranked up with a large unit of infantry models and model it to look like a teeny diorama to add flavour to your units and save hassle/time when ranking up models.

ok so some questions I thought of:

1) Does the unit filler need to be wysiwyg? IE equipped with the same wargear as the rest of the models in the unit?

2) Can it be a terrain type feature like a tree or rock? (obviously this wouldnt effect LOS or cover in any way)

3) Does the unit filler need to contain the same number of mini's that are replaced by its base size?

4) Is it acceptible to have a different unit type/character featured, as long as it is made clear that they aren't actually present, or is this too confusing?

5) Does the player need to actually have the "replaced" models with them? (in their case or whatever)

6) How many/what size unit filler is acceptible in games?

I'm of the opinion that if it looks cool and adds flavour to an army then its fine as long as everyone is clear what the unit actually represent, Does this opinion differ in tournaments? I imagine most casual gamers don't care much either way but I would like peoples opinions.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
1) Does the unit filler need to be wysiwyg? IE equipped with the same wargear as the rest of the models in the unit?

Not necessarily. Especially when you have an interesting little diorama going on.

2) Can it be a terrain type feature like a tree or rock? (obviously this wouldnt effect LOS or cover in any way)

I'm generally fine with unit fillers of any type(especially with GW's prices), but I'd appreciate an effort or some sort. Don't just have a rock in the middle of your Night Goblins, try and get some cool looking mushrooms in there.

3) Does the unit filler need to contain the same number of mini's that are replaced by its base size?

It can, but does not really need to.

4) Is it acceptible to have a different unit type/character featured, as long as it is made clear that they aren't actually present, or is this too confusing?

Sure. Just at least put some effort in it to make it look like it belongs. I've seen great unit fillers of Night Goblins trying to subdue wild squigs or Ogres mercenaries with Empire Swordsmen.

5) Does the player need to actually have the "replaced" models with them? (in their case or whatever)

That defeats the purpose of the unit filler. Generally, if a unit filler is too unwieldy for the unit, then enough models have been killed for it to be replaced.

6) How many/what size unit filler is acceptible in games?

I like fillers to stay in the middle of the unit, not on any of the sides so it's easy to tell btb in CC. That's about it.

Honestly, the Rule of Cool reigns supreme. If it looks cool, it belongs.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:1) Does the unit filler need to be wysiwyg? IE equipped with the same wargear as the rest of the models in the unit?

Not really/rarely.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:2) Can it be a terrain type feature like a tree or rock? (obviously this wouldnt effect LOS or cover in any way)

I've seen trees and rocks used but they usually have a few dudes on/around them. Totems and such race specific features are ok IMO.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:3) Does the unit filler need to contain the same number of mini's that are replaced by its base size?

Not really/rarely.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:4) Is it acceptible to have a different unit type/character featured, as long as it is made clear that they aren't actually present, or is this too confusing?

Sure, as was said the rule of cool reigns supreme.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:5) Does the player need to actually have the "replaced" models with them? (in their case or whatever)

Not really/rarely.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:6) How many/what size unit filler is acceptible in games?

Usually it's acceptable for it to replace 2-4 dudes altho in some units even more is acceptable, also GW make a few useable bases, that can take up quite some space (15x20mm dudes, 8x20mm dudes, 8x25mm dudes, 8x25mm dudes (again) and if you can get an empty arachnarok base you can fill space for 24 25mm guys (talk about a marauder horde)).

For tournaments you'd better ask the TO tho.

As others have said the rule of cool usually trups.

The big thing to remember is how many wounds are going into your filler - that way you don't wind up cheating your opponent or yourself. I have found that having a dice on the unit with the number of wounds remaining for the filler very helpful.

I guess ive never seen a huge unit filler like you guys are describing. I would imagine you would still want some loose figs in case a weird number of them die. I may have to try something like this with my counts as gnoblars, if could be pretty fun to do visually.

Well unit fillers over 4 dudes big are fairly rare, i just made the possibilities visible.
I myself plan on having a chariot size base in my saurus eventually, just have to come up with a nice diorama for it...

I have ten bloodletters overrunning an anvil of doom in the centre of my bloodletter horde takes up twenty model spaces but looks pretty cool

For horde fillers the screaming bell base works great, also i have seen great fillers for chaos with a shrine, or night goblins with a tunnel (personal favorite, it looked awesome with a bunch of lil goblins crawling out of it)

I was going to do a trio of dwarves lounging around an amber colored water cooler for my unit filler, or just sitting on some barrels, enjoying a few "well earned comforts," as Pippin son of Paladin once said.

FearPeteySodes wrote:I guess ive never seen a huge unit filler like you guys are describing. I would imagine you would still want some loose figs in case a weird number of them die. I may have to try something like this with my counts as gnoblars, if could be pretty fun to do visually.

Well, you wouldn't want to do more then about 1/3 of the unit as filler bases. I'd still want a good 2 ranks front and back in non-horde units. That way, by the time you're at the point of removing the fillers, you've got 2 ranks of 'dead guys' to use as replacements for fillers.

I myself am not a fan because its just an extra layer bs having to keep keep track of the wounds etc done to the unit filler.

That being said in huge horde armies 1 or 2 SMALL stands of unit filler looks great and its not a problem to keep track off because by the time these stands are being removed there will be pleanty of dead models to replace them.

However if your army is all 5 models in the front and then just unit fillers I wouldnt really want to play you.

First rule of unit fillers: Rule of cool trumps all. If it looks cool, it works.

Second rule: Make it look like you were trying to do something cool rather than just trying to skimp on models. Don't just throw a tree in the middle of a unit; put a dude in there scouting the enemy deployment or trying to snipe the enemy. Have a goblin carving graffiti onto that rock. Come up with an idea, don't just throw something together.

Third rule: You can't go wrong with useing 4 dudes to cover the same space as 4 dudes. You can go very wrong using 1 dude to cover the space of 20.

Fourth rule: No more than half the unit can be fillers. A third is better. And make sure the command group AND the back rank are not incorporated into the fillers.

Ralin Givens wrote:For horde fillers the screaming bell base works great

This is my plan for my skaven slaves. It would take the space of 15 slaves, while giving plenty of room for a mini diorama if desired.

Mostly I just think it'll be easier to place 50 models when 30% of the unit is on a single huge base. You remove handfuls of them at a time anyway, so it's entirely possible to just remove the whole thing in one turn!

Jubear wrote:I myself am not a fan because its just an extra layer bs having to keep keep track of the wounds etc done to the unit filler.

Well I don't see this as an issue because you just swap the unit filler for single casualties the moment it "takes a wound" I would never expect my opponent to put up with me allocating wound counters to a unit filler especially as this would effect rank bonus etc. I.E If you have already removed the back rank of single models and the other single models for the rank the filler is in at the point the filler takes a wound, you remove the filler and replace it with its "value" minus the number of wounds it took.

Rule of cool works for me, I find just huge blocks of dudes that look a like kind of dull. Got to make it spicey.

The only thing that annoys me is when you look at the unit and it is not obvious how many figures it has.

Oh and if the filler is of a size that it makes casualty removal, ranking up or reforming difficult.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:

Jubear wrote:I myself am not a fan because its just an extra layer bs having to keep keep track of the wounds etc done to the unit filler.

Well I don't see this as an issue because you just swap the unit filler for single casualties the moment it "takes a wound" I would never expect my opponent to put up with me allocating wound counters to a unit filler especially as this would effect rank bonus etc. I.E If you have already removed the back rank of single models and the other single models for the rank the filler is in at the point the filler takes a wound, you remove the filler and replace it with its "value" minus the number of wounds it took.

read the rest of my post....

Guidelines in our area is as follows:

The Unit Filler should not be in the back row or on the edge of the unit. The Unit filler should not consist of more than half of the models. The unit filler should be able to be removed and replaced with rank and file models by the time it starts taking wounds.

Those are what the gaming community has set as standards in Orlando. You'll never have an issue unless the filler is too big and is hit in the center by a template. If this happens you error on the side that too many are hit (usually 1 or two extra hits on the unit, nothing too drastic if you're running Skaven Slaves and you have a 15 man unit filler). Most of the unit fillers I've seen are on Charriot Bases or Monster Bases.

Personally I dont like the marauder models so I have a few unit fillers.

1 being war hounds since they look sweet if a marauder has 1 or 2 on a leash looks pretty sweet.

2 some big rock thing that looks like a chaos something or other looks good (only takes up 4 spaces)

This is for marauder hordes of 50. Since as I said earlier not a huge fan of marauder models.

Can't say I agree with the "rule of cool". I want to see cool looking figs integrated with rank and file blocks. I don't want to have to deal with figuring out how many units your little patch of scenery counts as.

Not generally wysiwyg?
Not showing the same amounts of figures that it's representing?
Not showing the right units?

No, just no. If it's about poorhammer there are better ways to play, if it's because you want to make your army something special besides cool looking conversions and interesting paint schemes, then enter in a scenery competition or something. Try to bring something like that to the game and I simply won't play you.

Necroshea wrote:Try to bring something like that to the game and I simply won't play you.

Works for me, on to the next game.

cowpow16 wrote:Personally I dont like the marauder models so I have a few unit fillers.

1 being war hounds since they look sweet if a marauder has 1 or 2 on a leash looks pretty sweet.

2 some big rock thing that looks like a chaos something or other looks good (only takes up 4 spaces)

This is for marauder hordes of 50. Since as I said earlier not a huge fan of marauder models.

cowpow you rule!!!!

warhounds on leashes as fillers!!! this is going to save me a fortune!!!

let the horde begin!!!!!!

I've only got two unit fillers, and it usually just for laughs. For instance my base that has my sorc with a sac dagger on it, a bloody curtain, a ticket counter, and three spearman (banner + mus + reg dude). It gets some laughs almost every time I bring it out, but I usually put it away in serious matches.

Oh, and my cauldron of blood that fits in with either executioners or wyches.

Haha thanks superted.

it will save me quite a bit too

The painting is also way faster 1 hound rather than 2 marauders.

Necroshea wrote:Can't say I agree with the "rule of cool". I want to see cool looking figs integrated with rank and file blocks. I don't want to have to deal with figuring out how many units your little patch of scenery counts as.

Not generally wysiwyg?
Not showing the same amounts of figures that it's representing?
Not showing the right units?

No, just no. If it's about poorhammer there are better ways to play, if it's because you want to make your army something special besides cool looking conversions and interesting paint schemes, then enter in a scenery competition or something. Try to bring something like that to the game and I simply won't play you.

Suit yourself. I'll pick up the game then.

Necroshea wrote:Can't say I agree with the "rule of cool". I want to see cool looking figs integrated with rank and file blocks. I don't want to have to deal with figuring out how many units your little patch of scenery counts as.

Not generally wysiwyg?
Not showing the same amounts of figures that it's representing?
Not showing the right units?

No, just no. If it's about poorhammer there are better ways to play, if it's because you want to make your army something special besides cool looking conversions and interesting paint schemes, then enter in a scenery competition or something. Try to bring something like that to the game and I simply won't play you.

Agreed unit fillers are fine in very limited numbers/size and they need to look good and not just be a tree or rock. What is not acceptable is 20 man unit fillers that cant adjust ranks etc properly and can sometimes make it hard to work out what been hit by templates. If you are using unit fillers to save yourself money then tbh the hobby is prolly out of your price range...

Jubear wrote:If you are using unit fillers to save yourself money then tbh the hobby is prolly out of your price range...

Pretty much this

Necroshea wrote:

Jubear wrote:If you are using unit fillers to save yourself money then tbh the hobby is prolly out of your price range...

Pretty much this

this is a poor statement....when you run horde like myself and that is what GW is pushing for, buying 300 models and carrying them is unrealistic! unit fillers are ok but need to be also useable in the game.

Overall at least 70-80% of the unit should be real models.
That way by the time you reach the filler you can remove it and add in the appropriate number of survivors.

Necroshea wrote:

Jubear wrote:If you are using unit fillers to save yourself money then tbh the hobby is prolly out of your price range...

Pretty much this

As long as it looks cool, I don't see anything wrong with someone saving money by using unit fillers. Note that "looks cool" is a very important qualifier.

HoverBoy wrote:Overall at least 70-80% of the unit should be real models.
That way by the time you reach the filler you can remove it and add in the appropriate number of survivors.

If you're concerned about replacing a filler, the proper percentage should be 50%. Although at least 10 models should be non-filler (front two ranks for 5-wide or front rank for 10-wide).