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Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

Slayer made me try out tarantulas actually, he's a big fan. They are great for screening out space, as anything that makes it into CC with them a) still gets shot by them and b) can still be targetted by the rest of your army. Solid defensive unit
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, that’s why I was asking. I had forgotten about the no cc locking part, that is nice for a screen. But now that the attack bike is the same price you could use the bike to screen instead and move it later if it survives.

The bike has the same -1 as the speeder on the HB, but better base BS than the turret and gets the free twin bolter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/30 15:18:29


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




bort wrote:
Yeah, that’s why I was asking. I had forgotten about the no cc locking part, that is nice for a screen. But now that the attack bike is the same price you could use the bike to screen instead and move it later if it survives.

The bike has the same -1 as the speeder on the HB, but better base BS than the turret and gets the free twin bolter.

The closer that Attack Bike moves, the more it can be hit by weapons efficient against it. If you want something like that, the aforementioned Land Speeders have double the wounds and double the Heavy Bolter shots for less than double the price of Attack Bikes.

Don't forget that it's a TL Heavy Bolter on the Tarantula, not just a regular one. That's 6 shots at BS4+, compared to needing to move in for you to use the TL Bolter (and consequently making your Heavy Bolter fire at that BS4+). If you're using a camping HQ, this is even better for a potential gunline too if you're strictly screening at the front rather than a few key places in your back lines.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I don’t think the range is much issue with the bolter beta rule, it’ll get 4 bs3 shots at 24”. Not any more issue than the turret having to shoot the closest, anyways.

But okay, fair enough, I guess the attack bike isn’t a 100% replacement for the tarantula now.

I would probably still use 2 attack bikes over the speeder though (if I had to use either). 2 HB bikes is only 74pts, that’s barely over double the 70pt speeder.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/30 20:44:22


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




That said, at least the Land Speeder having that movement stat and Fly means it can charge and run away to shoot next turn.

Only hypothetically of course. Likely what will happen is your opponent just falls back and then shoots the Land Speeder.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

Another crazy idea making use of new bolter drill

how about 6 heavy bolter devi centurions with girlyman and maybe tiggy nearby for the -1 to hit

36 heavy bolter shots
72 bolter shots
re-roll to hit and wound
ignore cover

its a fair whack of pts (like the cents are 420) but sounds scary?
issue is they only 18 T5 2+ wounds at -1 to hit

15 wounds to a knight
2 dead rhinos
68 dead orks
61 dead guardsmen
30 dead marines

other option:
run em as Imperial fists with a chapter master near with storm of fire + re-roll ones relic
re-roll all shots
and 6's to wound are -2 or -1 and against vehicles cause a mortal wound with the vigilus 1cp strat
thats pain to knights

not to mention you can spank another cp on bolter drill for more shots on a 6 to hit!

This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2019/01/30 23:31:40


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Another thing in the attack bike’s favor is chapter tactics. Also apothecaries and other things that don’t work on vehicles.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Nevelon wrote:
Another thing in the attack bike’s favor is chapter tactics. Also apothecaries and other things that don’t work on vehicles.

And how many of those Chapter Tactics honestly matter?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Another thing in the attack bike’s favor is chapter tactics. Also apothecaries and other things that don’t work on vehicles.

And how many of those Chapter Tactics honestly matter?


I’m not saying they are game brakeingly powerful, but they are there.

UM: Ld pretty useless, fall back and shoot situationally useful, but the full FLY on the speeder trumps it. Not relevant
WS: Charge and fallback can let you shoot and pin things in CC. Not bad for a harassment unit
IF: No cover is kinda nice
BT: re-roll charges can help you tie up something in CC. Not spectacular, but a thing.
Sal: Might make MM bikes slightly more viable. re-rolls are nice if mucking about the backfield out of aura range
RG: -1 to hit very nice. With the beta bolter rule you can skirt around in the 18-24” bracket and be outside of effective range of your foes while still shooting at max. Clear winner (shock)
IH: 6+++ makes you tougher.

WS, UM, BT have stratagems that work with bikes, IH for vehicles.

The Crimson Fist one gives you bonuses when outnumbered, correct? I don’t have the WD with it. Not bad for bikes which normally are.

Are they enough to tip the balance over other units? Maybe not. But they are little situational bonuses that can be nice, or mesh well in corner cases.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

Imperial Fists have viable Centurions now. a 4-man squad with grav, cap rerolls and relic rerolls on wounds with the siege strat will do a dirty amount of damage to a rotated knight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The question is, how to keep em alive? I've been trying a few things - even an imperial bastion!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 09:51:41


 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

I was thinking maybe drop storm of fire and take the actual vigis trait to always count in cover so vs lascannons ye still getting a 4+ save.

apoth near em to revive or heal
mabye even combo up with an ancient so die, fire apoth makes him come back but thats a lot of spt char pts

other non fluffy version ofc is a DA libby plonking -1 to hit on big stuff

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 10:04:08


 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




Which units would you recommend for vulkan hestan's re-roll buffs with flamer and melta weapons?
I thought about sternguard with combi flamers or a unit of Devs with multi meltas.
I dare say there are better options but I'm new to marines so I thought I'd turn to dakka for advice.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





UK

flamer agressors are an obvious choice but even with his ability they are prob better off with bolters but might be fun if you can get them there.

maybe 2 units of 5 devis with multi meltas, i'd try it for fun.

3 MM + HF dreads might be interesting. Mortis and mortis contemptor dreads from FW you can have dual MM

Relic leviathan dread from FW has 2 meltaguns and heavy flamers standard you can swap of BOTH meltas for:
Cyclonic melta lances 18" Heavy 2D3 9 -4 D6 (half range metal rule)
here is one someone did, worth doing for cool factor:
https://i.redd.it/fh2yp83r6lk11.jpg
quite expensive thou over 300pts

Its a shame the demios pred from FW's flamer gun is infernus not flamer worded that would be pretty fun to use with two side heavy flamers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/31 11:36:44


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

kingheff wrote:
Which units would you recommend for vulkan hestan's re-roll buffs with flamer and melta weapons?
I thought about sternguard with combi flamers or a unit of Devs with multi meltas.
I dare say there are better options but I'm new to marines so I thought I'd turn to dakka for advice.


What are your army plans in general, and how competitive do you play?

Both Melta and Flamers are in a bad place right now. Melta is overpriced for what it does, and flamers don’t really do the job they were designed for (thinning hordes). Now giving them full re-rolls will go a long way, but you need to recognize that you are starting a bit behind.

How are you going to get your guns into range? What style list?

The LRR has got those nice cannons on the side for the burning, and you can pop a MM up top. Might not be the most efficient thing, but thematic and cool, and makes a nice centerpiece for a mechanized list. It does suffer from having to be close to shoot, and being able to be stuck in CC. But if you are being locked in combat, you probably got a chance to roast them with the flamesotrms on the way in.

Dreads can work. Bikes, sternguard. Even loaded tac squads

Whatever you pick is not going to boost you to the top tables. As combos go, it’s hardly game breaking. Vulcan lets you take bad options, and make them playable. So take stuff you enjoy.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




I mostly play at my local gw store and if I was going to try more competitive games I'd probably stick with my craftworlds army.
So I want a mix of fluffy and decent options for my salamander army. I've got a decent selection of tacs, Devs and primaris with venerable dreads so far. I've bought a deredeo with auto cannons to go with my dreads The dreads I've armed with plasma and twin auto cannons, besides the basic salamander re-roll ability would cover any multi meltas on dreads if I decide to swap them in. I'll probably try to stick to mechanised infantry and dreads as much as possible.
A squad of ten sternguard with combi flamers and the flamecraft strat would get 20 rapid fire bolter shots, hitting on fours but re-rolling ones, plus 10 d6 flamer hits which get a plus one to wound, re-rolling with Vulcan. Fifty plus shots seems a decent amount of dakka with the caveat that they die pretty easily so I'm guessing a rhino would be pretty essential.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Venerable dreads are ace, I run 2 in my Deathwatch army and last night I got 2 lascannon hits through and caused 11 wounds blowing it's dirty fish head off! Sit them in cover at the back and they just throw out 2 Krak and 4 LC shots perturn for 280 points hitting on 2s and with a 6 up FNP save.
   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

I've been reviving my IF army which have been a real blast, but suffer from static gunline syndrome. Aside from scouts (already run 3 basic squads) what options are worth talking about here?

Is it vanvets & inceptors or bust? Has anyone tried the Termite? It looks solid but is hampered by its restriction to basic troops only, which in turn points towards stormshield vets as its payload...
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I am trying to build a casual, fluffy list based around the 'Sky Sentinels' chapter. They are mentioned in a throwaway sentence in the lore has having been wiped out by Magnus, but I thought it would be cool if some of their absent ships got lost in the warp and survived. They are pretty much a blank slate, so all I really have to go on is their name.

I figure their main thing is that they really like flyers, but this doesn't seem to fit with any of the existing chapters for me to decide their progenitor. Blood Angels like flying but I am trying to stick to the standard chapters. Raven Guard use a lot of flyers, but mostly as a means to drop them behind enemy lines to conduct stealth operations. I figure that being stealthy conflicts with the 'Sentinels' part. Imperial Fists would make good sentinels and I do like their chapter tactics. Am I missing anything though? Is there another chapter that would make more sense lore-wise for flying guardian types?

In terms of tactics, is there any way to make a flyer-heavy Space Marine list work? I have a Stormraven and two Stormtalons and I had hoped to cram them all in as an Air Wing detachment, but it seems like flyers are kind of bad since I am not aware of them being used much. I had been planning to mostly just fill out the army using tactical marines, but would any else work as a better compliment to flyers? I like the idea of missile launchers since they provide some flexibility but most people seem to prefer lascannons spam? I know there is no point in everything being super-optimised for casual play but I want them to have some sort of fighting chance

I would prefer not to include any Primaris since everyone thought these guys were dead, so no one trusts them and they get minimal resources from the Imperium. I figure that any Primaris they were originally grown for them were quietly shunted off to other chapters

3233 points 127 points
868 points 466 points
16 points 290 points
85 points 80 points
1735 points 608 points
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Bilge Rat wrote:
I am trying to build a casual, fluffy list based around the 'Sky Sentinels' chapter. They are mentioned in a throwaway sentence in the lore has having been wiped out by Magnus, but I thought it would be cool if some of their absent ships got lost in the warp and survived. They are pretty much a blank slate, so all I really have to go on is their name.

I figure their main thing is that they really like flyers, but this doesn't seem to fit with any of the existing chapters for me to decide their progenitor. Blood Angels like flying but I am trying to stick to the standard chapters. Raven Guard use a lot of flyers, but mostly as a means to drop them behind enemy lines to conduct stealth operations. I figure that being stealthy conflicts with the 'Sentinels' part. Imperial Fists would make good sentinels and I do like their chapter tactics. Am I missing anything though? Is there another chapter that would make more sense lore-wise for flying guardian types?

In terms of tactics, is there any way to make a flyer-heavy Space Marine list work? I have a Stormraven and two Stormtalons and I had hoped to cram them all in as an Air Wing detachment, but it seems like flyers are kind of bad since I am not aware of them being used much. I had been planning to mostly just fill out the army using tactical marines, but would any else work as a better compliment to flyers? I like the idea of missile launchers since they provide some flexibility but most people seem to prefer lascannons spam? I know there is no point in everything being super-optimised for casual play but I want them to have some sort of fighting chance

I would prefer not to include any Primaris since everyone thought these guys were dead, so no one trusts them and they get minimal resources from the Imperium. I figure that any Primaris they were originally grown for them were quietly shunted off to other chapters


You could always go with “unknown” for your primogenitor. White Scars also nicely fits the bill, as mobility and hit and run are part of their style. From a table-top POV, look at how you want to put the army together and see what fits best.

Flyers don’t count when seeing if you are tabled, so you don’t want to go all-in on them. StormRavens used to be hot, and still aren’t bad. Some of the FW flyers are nice if you want to go that way. For casual play I think any the SM flyers are not bad. Most top tier lists take the broken stuff with synergies and spam it, so you won’t see 90% of the codex. Doesn’t mean it’s bad for normal play, just not the latest hotness.

The question is what else do you want in your list? Thematically I’d suggest a lot of speeders and jump troops. Mechanically, you probably want some rugged stuff to put boots on objectives and make sure you don’t get tabled. There is also the question of troops and how to get them on the table.

Scouts can fit in well in a list like this. Fluff wise they have infiltrated the battlefield and are calling in the air strike. Mechanically, they fill troop slots, offer table presence, and camp objectives.

You probably want to find some sort of hammer units to cram into your SR. Turn one fly up close, turn two hop out and kill. Don’t forget the dread. Plasma vets, some HQs, whatever floats your boat.

Handing out primaris to wrecked chapters was kinda a thing if you want to include them. If you are looking for fluff justification not to, that’s fine as well. But a repulsor full of hellblasters and some inceptors would fit your theme pretty well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/06 12:10:59


Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Some interesting ideas there, thank you!

Lore-wise it makes sense for my guys to have an unknown primogenitor but I want proper Chapter Tactic bonuses

I think that assault squads make a lot of sense. I currently have ten assault marines plus a jump pack chaplain so they should team up pretty well. I'm not sure about land speeders or scouts though since I feel like 'sentinels' would favour resilience over speed.

A repulsor full of hellblasters sounds like fun but my lore is that these guys were secretive almost to the point of heresy, so now the Imperial bureaucrats would prefer to see them get wiped out for good rather than trusting them with a load of fancy new toys. I do have a single intercessor model that I picked up for free at my local GW so I considered converting him into a lieutenant to represent an Ultramarine who has been assigned to keep an eye on them

As for FW flyers, I would love a £450 Thunderhawk but it isn't the most practical choice

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/06 15:01:43


3233 points 127 points
868 points 466 points
16 points 290 points
85 points 80 points
1735 points 608 points
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Bilge Rat wrote:

Lore-wise it makes sense for my guys to have an unknown primogenitor but I want proper Chapter Tactic bonuses


There's nothing stopping you from "your dudes"-ing things up to the max, but rules-wise running them as a vanilla Chapter with regards to Chapter Tactics.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




So now that the Bolter rule has been out for a while and I keep bringing this up, I think it's time we discussed Sternguard again as part of a Lias drop + an Ancient with the relic Banner.

With Sternguard having a high enough LD stat and ATSKNF, we don't care much about morale for them. We can easily get large squads for them and let them rain fire, and I know I had at least mediocre success doing this even with all the new codices being released. The main issue is of course two fold:
1. The range of the Special Issue Bolters still doesn't outweigh the firepower of the Storm Bolter in most cases. However, with people not trying to get too close to Storm Bolters with this rule out, can we make an argument for using the default weapon?
2. While Raptors are TECHNICALLY Raven Guard successors, you aren't actually forced into using them RAW. It can be gamey, but how do we feel about using maybe Ultramarines (no tarpitting) or Imperial Fists (ignoring cover with either Bolt weapon is good)?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So now that the Bolter rule has been out for a while and I keep bringing this up, I think it's time we discussed Sternguard again as part of a Lias drop + an Ancient with the relic Banner.


Not quite sure how those are connected. Lias drop counts as moving, so you wouldn't get beta bolter rule anyway on the drop.

I also wouldn't worry about Raptors being 'gamey' - they're already that way by virtue of having a Chapter Master Character that has never had a model ;P
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Lemondish wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So now that the Bolter rule has been out for a while and I keep bringing this up, I think it's time we discussed Sternguard again as part of a Lias drop + an Ancient with the relic Banner.


Not quite sure how those are connected. Lias drop counts as moving, so you wouldn't get beta bolter rule anyway on the drop.

I also wouldn't worry about Raptors being 'gamey' - they're already that way by virtue of having a Chapter Master Character that has never had a model ;P

It counts as moving, but I'm looking at Lias as essentially a Drop Pod that's gonna give rerolls to dudes when they drop. Then the opponent dedicates effort to remove them (helped by the Raven Guard -1 usually), and whatever is left standing is able to keep plucking away with the benefit of the Ancient on standby.

Something along those lines.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






In a Trayzn pokeball

At 15" you're gonna be in rapid fire when you drop anyway, so that shouldn't a be a concern. I think bolter drill really matters more for sternguard outside of a lias drop. At 30" they outrange any other infantry except for fire warriors, and with two shots at 30" and the recent point drop they might be worth taking.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The hobby is actually hating GW.
 iGuy91 wrote:
You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
 Elbows wrote:
You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote:
Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Houston

Assuming I was going to run a squad of Termies, do I give the one dude the assault cannon or missile launcher? Or do I not actually bother with a heavy weapon?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Might as well go Cyclone. The single Assault Cannon isn't a good buy at 22 points. They need to be TL to get any value as usually it's a greater density of shots.

After all, how many units have access to a single Assault Cannon as an option compared to the TL option, and how expensive do these units get?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
At 15" you're gonna be in rapid fire when you drop anyway, so that shouldn't a be a concern. I think bolter drill really matters more for sternguard outside of a lias drop. At 30" they outrange any other infantry except for fire warriors, and with two shots at 30" and the recent point drop they might be worth taking.

The second turn afterwards you might need to plink at something further away.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/08 18:06:15


CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

Stern have 30" anyway, why would you deepstrike them now we have bolter beta?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






In a Trayzn pokeball

 grouchoben wrote:
Stern have 30" anyway, why would you deepstrike them now we have bolter beta?

Can't be shot at turn one, sternguard cant take all plasma so getting within 12" without taking fire is pretty nice.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The hobby is actually hating GW.
 iGuy91 wrote:
You love the T-Rex. Its both a hero and a Villain in the first two movies. It is the "king" of dinosaurs. Its the best. You love your T-rex.
Then comes along the frakking Spinosaurus who kills the T-rex, and the movie says "LOVE THIS NOW! HE IS BETTER" But...in your heart, you love the T-rex, who shouldn't have lost to no stupid Spinosaurus. So you hate the movie. And refuse to love the Spinosaurus because it is a hamfisted attempt at taking what you loved, making it TREX +++ and trying to sell you it.
 Elbows wrote:
You know what's better than a psychic phase? A psychic phase which asks customers to buy more miniatures...
the_scotsman wrote:
Dae think the company behind such names as deathwatch death guard deathskullz death marks death korps deathleaper death jester might be bad at naming?
 
   
Made in gb
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




East of England

"Can't be shot at turn one"
- Can't shoot turn one either.
   
 
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