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Hey folks,
I have an 100% GW ork army. It's my first (and only) since returning to the game last year. It's painted to a slightly higher than avg table top standard IMHO. However, I have not based them as I don't like how gentle you have to be with the flock with storage. I have read that several tourneys require basing. If the minis are painted to a high standard would basing still be required? Also I have conversions of WFB boar riders to "plays as" biker boyz. See my gallery for some cell phone pics. It's a theme army based on my Alma mater. The Orkansas Razurbax. Ok thanks for any replies.

Just put sand on the bases and say they are in a desert.

I'd try to get them on the proper Bike bases to stave off the odd hardcore complainer, but I don't see you having much trouble using them.

Tournaments not allowing or nocking points for unbased models is one of my pet peeves, mainly because I prefer unflocked straight black basses. However I have never been bared from a tournament for it, call up the TO, explain why you dont like or dont use basing and he should let you at least run them in the tournament, likely with just a small reduction in paint score.

I really hate basing rules.

'Hey guys, now that you've spent £20 on a box of 5 troops, how about you pay us some more money for flock just so you can pay?'

How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity. I do base mine, but only using plasticard cut into small tile sections to give the appearance of urban tiling - but if somebody wants to play me I don't even particularly mind if their units are even painted, let alone based. For me, the painting & conversion side of the hobby is as fun as the battles, but I don't see why people should be forced to go through these procedures in order to play the game.

White glue is pretty cheap and sand is free, I fail to see the merits of your argument, Abstract Catalyst.

I fail to see why people should have to do anything to such an unimportant part of the model.

Oh and sand isn't free, to get anywhere near any 'free' sand I'd have to pay £20 in petrol. Plus, taking sand is stealing, and most sand would look awful on a model base.

The thing you aren't getting is that YOU think it is an unimportant part of the model, while most look at the entire thing placed on the table as the 'model'.

He's asking about what is acceptable at a tournament, not what is fine to play against you at whatever shop/your home. Tournaments generally expect completed models.

I never denied that un-based models wouldn't be accepted at a GW tournament, I was merely stating I think it's a pathetic reason to tell someone they can't play, especially if, like TS, they have otherwise put a lot of effort into their models.

Others see it differently, an un-based model is an unfinished model, according to most.

You don't need sand or flock... use plasticard and make ship decking...

or put yellow lines and make it a black asphalt.

Or go buy those clear bases.

The same people that claim 'I don't want to base' are the ones that say 'I don't want to paint' and 'I don't want to assemble arms so I can proxy' and 'I don't want to WYSIWYG.'

Tourneys require 3colors and based. It is not an unreasonable expectation and there are so many good ways to base all of the excuses are terrible. If you want to participate in the event, you follow their rules.

I can go get gravel out of the gutter in the street, glue it to a base and paint it and it will look great.

Another thread where some gamers try to force their expectations of what the hobby is on others. Fantastic.

Have to agree with the majority here. In my opinion, the base is just as much a part of the model as the weapons. Deciding not to base, when basing is a requirement, is like deciding not to WYSIWYG, when it also is a requirement.

Having said that, and more practically, if you call the TO and explain, I'm sure they'll let you play. You'll obviously lose the painting points for 'are the models based' though.

Most people find untidy post-painting bases ruin the model, but if you paint the bases back to their nice neat black after you've finished painting then people will have less of a problem with it...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:You don't need sand or flock... use plasticard and make ship decking...

Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Painting the base green wouldn't count for most tournaments, you've just painted them another solid color that isn't the original black, and it doesn't look like a 'base' (a setting/ground the model is standing on).

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials. I had a friend who painted his flat bases with a brick pattern that looked quite nice. He never got any complaints, at any events, because he had taken the effort to make the base below his model look like something (not a clean black, or green, or x colored surface).

Basing is actually quite fun (imo) once you get away from just hobby products like flock/static grass. Look up some articles, and you may find basing isn't so bad after all, and can include a variety of free alternatives that look nice and are fun to do (at least as fun as painting a model is).

since many people show up to tourni with crappy or unpainted figs, and no basing, i dont see how anyone could whine about your lack of basing. Not a big deal. If you want a quick fix, go to your local hardwear store. Have them mix up a small can of your base color. pour our what you need into a dixi cup and mix in enough sand that it becomes a thick paste. carefully apply to base. done.

doktor_g wrote:
I have not based them as I don't like how gentle you have to be with the flock with storage.

Scenery glue from a model railroad store is ~$5 for a bottle bigger than you will ever need and it makes flock as tough as nails. just get a brush full and let it soak into the flock until it cannot hold any more.

targetawg wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Painting the base green wouldn't count for most tournaments, you've just painted them another solid color that isn't the original black, and it doesn't look like a 'base' (a setting/ground the model is standing on).

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials. I had a friend who painted his flat bases with a brick pattern that looked quite nice. He never got any complaints, at any events, because he had taken the effort to make the base below his model look like something (not a clean black, or green, or x colored surface).

Basing is actually quite fun (imo) once you get away from just hobby products like flock/static grass. Look up some articles, and you may find basing isn't so bad after all, and can include a variety of free alternatives that look nice and are fun to do (at least as fun as painting a model is).

IIRC my Tau had their bases painted green/brown in a cheap attempt to appear like a swampy area.

Nowadays I base my fledging Dark Eldar onto plasticard cut into small tiles, so it's not a self-defense argument I'm putting forward. I just think it's silly to exclude people who put a lot of effort into the actual character model from playing because they haven't stuck some naff looking fake grass to the base.

doktor_g wrote:Hey folks,

Welcome!

doktor_g wrote:I have an 100% GW ork army. It's my first (and only) since returning to the game last year. It's painted to a slightly higher than avg table top standard IMHO. However, I have not based them as I don't like how gentle you have to be with the flock with storage.

I honestly am not sure what you're talking about here. I guess if you're using big chunky flock (like the stuff on some kinds of model trees) that could be a worry, but most kinds of basing are at least as durable as the paint on the model.

doktor_g wrote: I have read that several tourneys require basing. If the minis are painted to a high standard would basing still be required? Also I have conversions of WFB boar riders to "plays as" biker boyz. See my gallery for some cell phone pics. It's a theme army based on my Alma mater. The Orkansas Razurbax. Ok thanks for any replies.

Usually basing is required; to most people's view it is part of finishing the model, and subjectively, it makes a massive difference in how attractive the army is to look at on the tabletop, during the game. It's honestly almost shocking the difference it makes for so little effort on a basic basing scheme.

My usual process is usually just...

1. Painting watered-down Elmer's glue (99 cents or less for a big bottle which will last you years) on top of the base using cheap children's brushes for watercolors (again, ~99 cents for them),
2. Then dipping it in a tub of sand (available for free depending on where you live, or dirt cheap at Home Depot or someplace), and wiping any on the edges of the base off with my thumb.
3. Let dry then paint with some wash or ink or watered-down paint to darken it and get in the cracks and recesses.
4. Let dry then drybrush with a lighter contrasting color using a beat-up old brush.
5. (optional) Paint a little more watered-down Elmer's in one or two spots on the base and (holding the model over the tub) throw a little static grass on top of the glue. Turn the model upside-down over the tup and tap the bottom of his base to make the grass stand up a bit and shake off any excess back into the tub.
6. Paint the rim of the base in a neat, clean coat of paint.

Done. You can base a whole army in an evening this way, and it makes the whole thing look 100% better and more complete.

Obviously some folks have a differing personal taste, but if so, at least clean up your bases and make them neat. Adding some kind of detail work (flat painted paving stones, a flecked marble surface, pavement markings, etc.) are also alternative possibilities which can look nice without requiring texture.

Or do snow effects.

White sand, pva glue mixed to a thick paste, paint it onto the base thickly, whip the top a little with an old brush you don't mind chucking, to get a more snowish look.

It's really easy, very cheap, and looks good. My Necrons are all snow based. It took me about 3 hours to snowbase my entire army (4000 pts or so, including 120 warriors.)

Don't forget to put a sheet of carboard down first, as the glue/sand mix can be a little messy.

augustus5 wrote:Another thread where some gamers try to force their expectations of what the hobby is on others. Fantastic.

The OP was asking how things are, not how they should be. The trick is to read posts THEN make a reply based on what was read in them.

augustus5 wrote:Another thread where some gamers try to force their expectations of what the hobby is on others. Fantastic.

Yes, in a thread about tourney requirements in a forum about tourney play. If you don't like the standard, then don't participate. If you want to participate, then meet the standard.

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

targetawg wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

Painting the base green wouldn't count for most tournaments, you've just painted them another solid color that isn't the original black, and it doesn't look like a 'base' (a setting/ground the model is standing on).

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials. I had a friend who painted his flat bases with a brick pattern that looked quite nice. He never got any complaints, at any events, because he had taken the effort to make the base below his model look like something (not a clean black, or green, or x colored surface).

Basing is actually quite fun (imo) once you get away from just hobby products like flock/static grass. Look up some articles, and you may find basing isn't so bad after all, and can include a variety of free alternatives that look nice and are fun to do (at least as fun as painting a model is).

IIRC my Tau had their bases painted green/brown in a cheap attempt to appear like a swampy area.

Nowadays I base my fledging Dark Eldar onto plasticard cut into small tiles, so it's not a self-defense argument I'm putting forward. I just think it's silly to exclude people who put a lot of effort into the actual character model from playing because they haven't stuck some naff looking fake grass to the base.

I think it's a bit of a stretch saying people are being excluded for not using grass. It's a tournament, and I'm assuming a larger one (a shop tourney wouldn't care, usually they don't even require painting). If the tournament packet states (for instance): all models must be painted and based. It's just a rule, and many would argue it's equally as important as painting a model. If you show up then get angry that they won't let you play/don't approve of your models when you distinctly ignored an explicit statement (this is a hypothetical situation where the tournament did actually state basing is required) to do so, you've got nothing to complain about.

As others have said, basing can be easy, cheap, and durable. The OP had a few photos of his models, and some had some nice rocks on the bases, just do that for all of them! If not, try the method mannahan suggested, which is what I've done before as well, though I'm now making my own resin bases (which you can also buy).

Some options from the top of my head for those who are at a loss on alternative ways to base beyond static grass:

1) Paint with glue (elmers, never buy the GW pva for 8-10 dollars a bottle, it's the same stuff), dip in sand/pebble mix. Allow to dry, paint a base layer of a dark color (I used scorched brown). After drying, drybrush up 2-3 shades of lighter colors. My progression was bestial brown, bubonic brown (which is yellowish), then bleached bone.
2) Resin bases (tons of suppliers of tons of styles, or make your own!)
3) Textured plasticard. Plenty of stores (online and railroad hobby stores) sell textured plasticard with different patterns, cobblestone, brickwork, diamond plate, etc etc. Just cut it out and glue it down and paint. Makes for very nice and easy bases.
4) Materials from outdoors, you can find sand/pebbles along the roadside, bits of bark, etc to put models on. Sand isn't restricted to beaches remember, it's used in most areas along roadways (esp. in the winter) and ends up along the roadside.

nkelsch wrote:

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Are you sure that 99% of tournaments have a standard for basing? Is that exceedingly valid statistic being pulled from where the sun doesn't shine?

augustus5 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Are you sure that 99% of tournaments have a standard for basing? Is that exceedingly valid statistic being pulled from where the sun doesn't shine?

I'm guessing it is, as most statistics are. However, he is correct if you're defining tournament as GT's or just as "any event that requires fully painted". The two are a package deal.

Call your tourny or shop your planning on playing at and ask them. If they require it, just take your white paint, and put a couple road lines on each base, you know, the white lines? Presto, they are now standing on roads. Problem solved

I know some places they want you to have painted and based models. I heard that the la bunker was going back to that.

targetawg wrote:

augustus5 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

So yes, if you want to participate, expect to have other people's expectation of the 'hobby' forced upon you because they actually do this at 99% of tourneys.

Are you sure that 99% of tournaments have a standard for basing? Is that exceedingly valid statistic being pulled from where the sun doesn't shine?

I'm guessing it is, as most statistics are. However, he is correct if you're defining tournament as GT's or just as "any event that requires fully painted". The two are a package deal.

Ever since GW's RTTs and GTs from around 2000 on, the *ONLY* tourneys (including independents) that have allowed non-painted models were 'ard boyz. Now when people show up and bitch and moan and throw a fit and force a smaller tourney to allow unpainted models by bullying the store owner to over-ride the TO and then the person doesn't follow the rules of the tourney, that is not the same as not having the 3-colors and based rule. That is just an entitled person having fun at other people's expense.

Even all of the tourneys posted on Dakka in this very forum are overwhelmingly requiring painting (3 colors and based). If you are a store owner, you would be crazy not to because painting drives sales and prevents theft as you can easily distinguish what was brought with someone and what got popped open from a blister and assembled in the corner. In the chaos of a tourney, you can't keep on top of everything.

If you want to participate in other people's events... then you have to meet their expectation of what the 'hobby' requires to play, Which for most tourneys is 3-colors and based. This thread shows basing is exceedingly simple, inexpensive and can be done in many ways to minimize impact to a model.

Abstract Catalyst wrote:
How about no. I fail to see why basing models is a necessity.

Basing back in the day wasnt done, or was optional. I remember back then we never did.

Depends on the game and the group. But the idea that basing your models is part of them being fully painted, in wargames, goes back to before GW even existed.

The historical wargamers are still even stricter than we are, as a rule. Many of them abide by the restriction of never fielding a model (even in a friendly game) which isn't completely painted and based.