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Also keep in mind that alot of the rules require base to base contact. Or with template weapons covering the base.

No base, more guys in close combat, more dificulty with template weapons.

Mannahnin wrote: Many of them abide by the restriction of never fielding a model (even in a friendly game) which isn't completely painted and based.

GW had this rule in their stores and bunkers up until around 2004. Most FLGS in my area required painting for in-game play up until the ends of the GW GT era.

Non-painting is a recent development, but hasn't totally overwritten the tourney environment yet.

I wouldn't say "non-painting is a recent development". As carmachu pointed out, many local stores, withou as strong a culture of painting, have allowed unpainted WH & 40k stuff for a long time. Big events permitting it is pretty rare/a newer thing, though.

Mannahnin wrote:I wouldn't say "non-painting is a recent development". As carmachu pointed out, many local stores, withou as strong a culture of painting, have allowed unpainted WH & 40k stuff for a long time. Big events permitting it is pretty rare/a newer thing, though.

Me either. It's very much an area to area thing, both then and now.

nkelsch wrote:You don't need sand or flock... use plasticard and make ship decking...

or put yellow lines and make it a black asphalt.

Or go buy those clear bases.

The same people that claim 'I don't want to base' are the ones that say 'I don't want to paint' and 'I don't want to assemble arms so I can proxy' and 'I don't want to WYSIWYG.'

Tourneys require 3colors and based. It is not an unreasonable expectation and there are so many good ways to base all of the excuses are terrible. If you want to participate in the event, you follow their rules.

I can go get gravel out of the gutter in the street, glue it to a base and paint it and it will look great.

I am a person that doesn't want to base, however my entire army is painted, well. It is also wysiwyg, and I never proxy infact the reason I dont base is that I personally think they look tacky, green grass basses on a asphalt surface looks terrible to me, straight black looks fine anywere, should I be barred from playing? (this is an honest question to anyone that wants to answer)

Though like I said before I have never been barred, I just explain my position on basing and the TO always understands and I understand that I am the odd one out so I take a small painting score hit, no biggie I guess.

It's totally subjective, to be honest. I think you're just in the unlucky position of having a personal preference which runs contrary to most people's, and which can be confused with laziness or unwillingness to "finish", even though to the terms of your preference they are finished.

I think black bases usually look awful, to be honest. Much worse a conflict than having bases which don't match the terrain of the table. But some of that is no doubt just the expectations I have developed over years within a certain culture regarding painting.

If you want 'neutral' bases for your models to look good on any tabletop then look into something like this:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/304961.page

Clear bases shows effort. Black bases show laziness if you intend it to or not. You could have a golden demon painted model on a black base and the first thing someone would say is "is he done? what is with the base?"

If you don't like it, don't attend events with painting requirements. I would recommend finding a basing design that makes the models look finished that you like. Ship decking can be very minimalistic and look very good with a dark metallic color and a black edge. It will be based and neutral and then you will be welcome at 100% of events.

Mmm, those clear basses actually look quite nice, it would show the texture of the actual battle field which is something I like. Thanks for the idea, it is something I will be looking into.

And while I dont like it persay, I still attend events knowing I will be taking a penalty on painting score it is something I know I have to live with being the odd one out. I brought up the question as the argument between basing and not basing was getting heated over only 2 points, I felt my opinion would bring into light another angle from which the current argument had not addressed.

With that being said I dont always hate basing, those guys that build a diorama for there army with holes cut for their armies bases and the base seamlessly matches the rest of the diorama always get 2 thumbs up from me.

Those guys are always impressive. I don't go that far, but I do make my army display boards match my bases.

Those clear bases are pretty darn cool, and seem like a good option for folks like you. Also seems like they're pretty cheap from Litko. The downside of them sliding off terrain easier than gw bases could be a bit of an issue, but I'd think you'd be okay on most terrain; maybe do a little bit of sanding on the bottom if you could manage it without killing the clear effect.

Why would an unpainted clear base be any more acceptable than a normal unpainted black base? If the idea is to make the figure look finished but people won't/don't accept the "on an aspalt road" excuse then why should clear bases get a pass?

Good question. I would guess because they make it obvious that you've made an effort to do something than just sticking them onto the bases in the pack without consideration for appearance. Of course, the clear ones might well be ruled unacceptable by some folks' lights.

targetawg wrote:

Abstract Catalyst wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:Or even just paint the bases as-is - they're textured on top, so they could just be painted and drybrushed.

I thought painting the bases didn't count as having 'based' the model? At least this is what I was told when I tried to enter a tourney with my green-based Tau a few years back.

However, I think what he meant was actually painting it to look like something, which is a good solution if you really hate basing with materials.

Yes, that's what I meant. Bases have a textured top, so you should be able to paint it, say, green, then drybrush a paler colour onto it. Suddenly the base is not a single solid colour - it's painted and textured grass, dirt or whatever.


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yournamehere wrote:Mmm, those clear basses actually look quite nice, it would show the texture of the actual battle field which is something I like. Thanks for the idea, it is something I will be looking into.

If anyone is looking for these, I have a whole army based on clear bases (my Tau army - link in the sig).

Litko Aerosystems do them to order (as well as a stunning range of Space Corridors) but can be quite expensive. The best option I found was Fenris Games (www.fenrisgames.co.uk), who cut me an entire army's worth for less than £30.

Mannahnin wrote:Depends on the game and the group. But the idea that basing your models is part of them being fully painted, in wargames, goes back to before GW even existed.

Yes. But we're not talking about wargames in general. In the GW hobby, basing hasnt always been a requirement. In fact I have models that are OOP that are painted, but not based. Because that was how was back then. Including many GW magazine pictures. In fact they didnt do more then paint the base green.

carmachu wrote:
Yes. But we're not talking about wargames in general. In the GW hobby, basing hasnt always been a requirement. In fact I have models that are OOP that are painted, but not based. Because that was how was back then. Including many GW magazine pictures. In fact they didnt do more then paint the base green.

That's not going to do you much good if you want to participate in an event that requires '3colors and based' especially since GW came up with that requirement years ago. "GW once 20 years ago had pictures of unbased models in their magazine!!!" isn't going to get you anywhere.

If you don't want to base, then don't base... and also don't participate in events that require it.

Could you compromise?

Put a thin count of fine sand on the base, paint it and the rim jet black. Dry brush the sand charcoal.

It looks black, but it is 1)flocked, and 2) highlighted.

Personally, I refuse to play with someone who has bases that don't match the terrain we're playing on.

Snow bases on my desert board? UNACCEPTABLE!

yournamehere wrote:Tournaments not allowing or nocking points for unbased models is one of my pet peeves, mainly because I prefer unflocked straight black basses.

As do I...

Hopefully the TO will be less unreasonable than most TOs tend to be.

Polonius wrote:Could you compromise?

Put a thin count of fine sand on the base, paint it and the rim jet black. Dry brush the sand charcoal.

It looks black, but it is 1)flocked, and 2) highlighted.

Probably the best option. Very easy to do. Sand doesn't come off once it's glued and painted. A light grey drybrush and your done. Your models have essentially the same look, but now meet requirements for tournaments.

To answer the orginal question: In the GT's I run, we require basing. It shouldn't ever come to the point of having to DQ someone.

If a player called up and asked, we'd tell them to choose whether to base their models, or not attend. If they registered for a GT and showed up without basing, it would definitely cause a problem. Either you read the rules or didn't. Showing up to a GT and knowingly causing the TO a headache before game one is a bad thing. So is not bothering to read the rules, and being ignorant of the requirements. Either way you're in the wrong.

TO's hate to have to DQ a player. Makes us the bad guys. TO's also hate to have people break rules and ignore requirements and then let them slide. People complain about favoritism and 'why have rules if you don't enforce them?'. Lose/lose for the TO.

Mikhaila- I'll ask you the same type of question that I asked above. Would you find "clear" bases with nothing else done to them acceptable at a tournement that required models be based?

Polonius wrote:Could you compromise?

Put a thin count of fine sand on the base, paint it and the rim jet black. Dry brush the sand charcoal.

It looks black, but it is 1)flocked, and 2) highlighted.

Also, putting a thin plasticard with a metal pattern on the base, painting it boltgun metal then heavily washing in baldab black. Then using a black rim. It is almost a completely black base, but is based.

At some point, if you want to participate in the events, you have to follow the rules.

And I find a clear base or some of those bases with patterns 'based' because it shows effort and is more than just the simple base the model comes with. Some of the ones with the etched patterns are pretty sweet. But I would say check with your TO.

My pet peeve is when people show up to tourneys with bare-metal models and expect to play when the requirements are clearly 3 colors and based. Even major events here on Dakka have photogalleries that are ruined by that one person who showed up with 1 color terminators with no base or a bare-metal daemonprince. If people can't follow the rules, it isn't fair to everyone else who did follow the rules. If I knew I could get away with 10% of my army being unpainted, I might have changed what I brought... but the rules were all painted. It is a selfish attitude to show up to an event knowingly breaking the rules and demanding an exception.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Mikhaila- I'll ask you the same type of question that I asked above. Would you find "clear" bases with nothing else done to them acceptable at a tournement that required models be based?

Would greatly depend on the basing. The ones in the gallery someone linked looked good. I can envision other 'clear bases' that would look like dogpoop. In making an exception to the "figures must be based" rule, the quality of the final product has to be taken into account in whether or not you all the exception. It would have to be on a case by case basis.

If someone went to the trouble to do the ultraclear bases shown in the gallery, and they were the correct size, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't mean to sound offensive but, could you explain your reasoning to me because I don't get that attitude. In effect you're saying that as long as you throw money at it then it's OK. If you spend money to buy a different base then you are excluded from having to follow the rules. I don't see how it's any more effort to glue a figure onto one base then it is to glue it to another. How about if I bought these bases from armourcast but didn't paint them http://armorcast.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=124_59&products_id=858 (or something like them)? Would that be acceptable? Either a figure is based by adding something to it (besides a coat of paint) or it isn't. If the rules say that I have to base my model to enter then shouldn't everyone else have to do the same?

If someone went to the trouble to do the ultraclear bases shown in the gallery, and they were the correct size, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't understand this line of thought. I have seen two posters say something along this line in this thread so far. How is it that somebody who glues a model to a clear base has gone to any more trouble than somebody who has glued a model to a standard black base?

Edit: Ninja'd by Leo_the_Rat. Well played sir...

I think it's a matter of perception: a plain black base looks forgotten. A clear base looks like effort was put in.

One of the interesting things is that a plain black base, properly done, isn't less work. You still need to paint it, and cover up splashes from the boots.

The only extra effort put into basing on a clear base is the effort to order and pay for the bases.

I personally think that tournaments should be free to create whatever restrictions they choose, including a standard for basing/painting. If I don't like any certain restriction, I'm free to not play in said tournament.

I would not be offended to play against somebody with an unpainted/unbased army though, and care little for how much/little effort somebody other than myself puts into his or her hobby.

biccat wrote:Personally, I refuse to play with someone who has bases that don't match the terrain we're playing on.

Snow bases on my desert board? UNACCEPTABLE!

Trollface.jpg

"Rule of cool" is a fickle mistress. If you want to 'risk' making something that doesn't follow the rules, it better be cool. If you can't risk it, then stay with the standard config, which is gluing sand to your base.

People will see clear bases as cool. People will see Black bases as lazy and unwilling to follow the rules.

So cool=don't have to follow the rules, and black base=lazy, even if somebody prefers the look of the black base.

I see...

I don't really care one way or the other about basing in tournaments, but the reason clear bases are different from plain black bases is pretty clear: one is aesthetically coherent with the painted model, the other is bare, flat black plastic. The only time the flat black really works is if you're intentionally painting an unrealistic scheme, like a cell-shading effect. If you paint a model to look like real life, but miniaturized, then flat black plastic totally ruins the look.

On that note, OP, I looked at your gallery and your models would really look much better if they were based.

augustus5 wrote:So cool=don't have to follow the rules, and black base=lazy, even if somebody prefers the look of the black base.

I see...

Not at all.
Rule of Cool = 'I've done something different, and maybe I will be given an exception to the rules based on the result'. This is specifically done by many TO's to give leeway to models that look good on the board, show skill or effort of some sort, and allows players to use models that while breaking a restriction, will enhance the gaming experience of people at the event.


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Leo_the_Rat wrote:I don't mean to sound offensive but, could you explain your reasoning to me because I don't get that attitude. In effect you're saying that as long as you throw money at it then it's OK. If you spend money to buy a different base then you are excluded from having to follow the rules. I don't see how it's any more effort to glue a figure onto one base then it is to glue it to another. How about if I bought these bases from armourcast but didn't paint them http://armorcast.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=124_59&products_id=858 (or something like them)? Would that be acceptable? Either a figure is based by adding something to it (besides a coat of paint) or it isn't. If the rules say that I have to base my model to enter then shouldn't everyone else have to do the same?

Why? You asked a question, I answered it, and you went on the attack because you don't like the answer.)

Lets leave it that you don't like the reasoning. I'm wasn't trying to convince you.