Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, it seems it's a bit more stable in London tonight. Shame it's a bit late but to be quite honest, the Police couldn't have fully intercepted the attacks last night and planned ahead. My thoughts go to all areas affected including Manchester tonight.

And news just in: a police station in Nottingham has been firebombed, not really stated if its on fire or burnt down or anything. This has spread out for sure not but not exactly escalated as people feard it would on day 4.

Mr Hyena wrote:
It all relates to the global degradation of human society that is currently happening.

I don't agree with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsS8kTQkjfE

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Well, it seems it's a bit more stable in London tonight. Shame it's a bit late but to be quite honest, the Police couldn't have fully intercepted the attacks last night and planned ahead. My thoughts go to all areas affected including Manchester tonight.

And news just in: a police station in Nottingham has been firebombed, not really stated if its on fire or burnt down or anything. This has spread out for sure not but not exactly escalated as people feard it would on day 4.

stay safe.

Oldham, in manchester. And this is calm compared to London

kitch102 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsS8kTQkjfE

Wow, seems like, at least to many of the people in this video, its about filling your own pockets with someone goods, not some perceived injustice.

Isnt it obvious whats really happening??....Genestealers.

AtomicEngineer wrote:Isnt it obvious whats really happening??....Jeanstealers.

Oh dear Avatar... oh dear....

And pun of the day goes too........

Avatar 720 wrote:

AtomicEngineer wrote:Isnt it obvious whats really happening??....Jeanstealers.

*insert picture of ork loota here* (its late an ive been painting all evening so cba)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM

This is a disturbing vid, seems that there is a major political bent to these riots. These girls are so imbued in the thought that the rich are causing austerity. This is very disturbing as they're cheering on mindless violence in the name of "get the rich!". What the hell has happened to the youth of the UK? Granted this isn't all of why the riots are going on, but just senseless looting and rioting because a thug was shot? I'm not buying it. That's a convenient cover and reason, but not the underlying one. This smacks of a class of people so dependent on Government that they know no other way to function. Pure and simple.

I don't know what's worse, that the riots are going on or that the BBC called people defending their homes & businesses as "Vigilantes". Disgusting. Try rioting around here and you're likely to wind up dead or horribly injured for your actions. When did the UK become so neutered?

Stormrider wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM

This is a disturbing vid, seems that there is a major political bent to these riots. These girls are so imbued in the thought that the rich are causing austerity. This is very disturbing as they're cheering on mindless violence in the name of "get the rich!". What the hell has happened to the youth of the UK? Granted this isn't all of why the riots are going on, but just senseless looting and rioting because a thug was shot? I'm not buying it. That's a convenient cover and reason, but not the underlying one. This smacks of a class of people so dependent on Government that they know no other way to function. Pure and simple.

I don't know what's worse, that the riots are going on or that the BBC called people defending their homes & businesses as "Vigilantes". Disgusting. Try rioting around here and you're likely to wind up dead or horribly injured for your actions. When did the UK become so neutered?

I'm quite certain that if you asked those girls what a conservative was, they would look at you like you had three heads. They sound like they're talking about getting back at their father or something.

They're just justifying their fun. I've seen it every day in school. It's not a sign of political allegience.

Stormrider wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM

This is a disturbing vid, seems that there is a major political bent to these riots. These girls are so imbued in the thought that the rich are causing austerity. This is very disturbing as they're cheering on mindless violence in the name of "get the rich!". What the hell has happened to the youth of the UK? Granted this isn't all of why the riots are going on, but just senseless looting and rioting because a thug was shot? I'm not buying it. That's a convenient cover and reason, but not the underlying one. This smacks of a class of people so dependent on Government that they know no other way to function. Pure and simple.

I don't know what's worse, that the riots are going on or that the BBC called people defending their homes & businesses as "Vigilantes". Disgusting. Try rioting around here and you're likely to wind up dead or horribly injured for your actions. When did the UK become so neutered?

YES!!!!! YES SIR YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!! 10000000000 FETHING POINTS TO YOU FOR ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTION!!!

And not a single ounce of sarcasm there, I promise you!!! I love my country, I love what we've been, I love that we've made mistakes, I love that we've tried to rectify those mistakes, I love what we could be, BUT then you add in people like the girls in this link that you've posted, and the thousands of others that haven't been interviewed, that are just taking advantage of a situation and pretending that it's their right to do so, just because they haven't made something of themselves where others have. I hate that people sit on their arses, waiting for hand outs, and then spit in the face of those that freely give them what they want.

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned cutting benefits. Whilst I know that it wouldn't work to help improve the situation, following on from the metaphor that I've used above of spitting in the face of those that feed you, maybe it could work...? If you have a child that misbehaves, do you take away their playstation or pocket money until they behave? Does it work? Is it possible that this could work for a nation of people? No I don't think so. Do I think we should at least try? Yes I do. Why? I pay taxes to ensure that our country is run well, the services that we want are operating at peak efficiency, and to an extent so that my fellow country men and I are looked after if we hit a bump on the road of life. I do not want to continue paying someone to have a better life than I have, with nicer possessions than I have, and more fun than I have, if they don't work for themselves.

As it is, this won't happen. So we will continue to pay the looters and rioters their benefits, whilst also paying an increase in taxes to repair the damages that they've done. Know what they'll be doing? Watching Jeremy Kyle on their recently looted 50" plasma screen. (jeremy kyle being a british Jerry Springer, only less funny, and much more annoying forthose that haven't the 'pleasure') whilst spending their job seekers allowance down the pub, whilst not looking for a job.

Part of me wants to walk around executing the looters as I see them. I'm sorry for that part of me, I truely am, but I want my friends and my family to be protected, physically, mentally and financially.

Another part of me wants to sit the looters down, give them a cup of tea and say "come on now, stop this ridiculousness, be all that you can be, start a business and make something of yourself".

Kitch102 needs to stop living in dreamworld again.

Dare I ask what my fellow Dakkites think to my jumbled thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:They're just justifying their fun. I've seen it every day in school. It's not a sign of political allegience.

Or intelligence.

Some food for though-what would the situation in Britain be like now, if, like here in the states, the police had access to submachine guns? Or if the shop owners could legally carry weapons?

_Tim?

Just be thankful this isnt the Imperium.

Space Marines would already be entering our System and knowing our luck it would be the pre heresy World Eaters!

It'd be horrible, and a memorial would be built to commemorate the lives lost. Family members would be on TV, crying, saying their so & so didn't deserve to die, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Police would be criticized for taking steps to stop what was happening...

...I don't know what the right thing to do is... My thoughts would be to arm the police with the necessary tools... ie, tear gas, riot shields... ONE OR 2 more lethal weapons (per 'team') if the gak were to hit the fan, and enforce a curfew. Announce that those out after curfew would be challenged by armed police that have the authority to take necessary action. A loose term given as decisions need to be made on the field and not in an office.

But then you have to worry about escalation. Cops pack pistols, looters pack shotguns, we pack semi automatic weaponry, they get black market full autos...

There is no right or wrong way to go about it. My thoughts are that we need a prompt end to the riots / lootings and to live with the decisions made as those being the best possible options available at the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do think that a public vote needs to be passed for any future occurences that states the overall public opinion of what level of force should be authorised should this ever happen again

Gak a police car got smashed up a couple of blocks away and loads of similar shizzle is going on in my neiborhood :(

Where are you mate? You got people with you? Stay safe dude


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Some food for though-what would the situation in Britain be like now, if, like here in the states, the police had access to submachine guns? Or if the shop owners could legally carry weapons?

_Tim?

Having thought about this a little more... The cops that shot that gangster were carrying MP5's, so we do have access to them, they're just not on display all the time. I don't believe that this has started as a result of that shooting - people just took advantage of a black man being shot and disguised looting / petty theft as a protest against racial treatment.

Stormrider wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6iLggKf1qM

This is a disturbing vid, seems that there is a major political bent to these riots. These girls are so imbued in the thought that the rich are causing austerity. This is very disturbing as they're cheering on mindless violence in the name of "get the rich!". What the hell has happened to the youth of the UK? Granted this isn't all of why the riots are going on, but just senseless looting and rioting because a thug was shot? I'm not buying it. That's a convenient cover and reason, but not the underlying one. This smacks of a class of people so dependent on Government that they know no other way to function. Pure and simple.

I don't know what's worse, that the riots are going on or that the BBC called people defending their homes & businesses as "Vigilantes". Disgusting. Try rioting around here and you're likely to wind up dead or horribly injured for your actions. When did the UK become so neutered?

Unemployment for youth sucks and the economy isn't likely to get significantly better either. The police are seen as corrupt/incompetent as well whether its the 1999 Stephen Lawrence case, Murdoch fiasco, or killing this gang member suspect after police shot eachother first (supposedly). The young have-nots are entering a declining Western world if things keep going the way they are unfortunately. The wealthy elite are too busy planning wars overseas for young poor people to fight and giving bankers free out of jail cards and executive bonuses. Sounds cynical but unfortunately pretty close to reality.

And its an excuse to loot stuff and have anarchy in the UK, V for Vendetta, yada yada yada.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Some food for though-what would the situation in Britain be like now, if, like here in the states, the police had access to submachine guns? Or if the shop owners could legally carry weapons?

_Tim?

There'd be a lot more paperwork, a few more shops around, and more casualties. Maybe the riots would be over sooner, maybe not. Hopefully safety and security comes swiftly for the UK.

Anybody wana watch this and tell the police they're not doing enough? Considering the odds of what they're up against?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050

I don't think anyone with a brain doubts the police are doing enough. For a public service that has taken the brunt of cuts, recruitment freezes, multiple scandals, accusations of laziness and on top of all that, can expect to come back to a mountain of paperwork for every arrest they make, I think they're doing one hell of a fine job.

I've been waiting for this to happen in America actually. The way the rich have fleeced the poor and middle class, I've been worried about it. It wouldn't bee so bad if they just hit banks and lit all the houses the banks stole from people. Most shopkeepers however are just working slobs like everyone else, its the large corporations that are stripping workers of pay and benefits that need this kind of treatment.

Stormrider wrote:
This is a disturbing vid, seems that there is a major political bent to these riots. These girls are so imbued in the thought that the rich are causing austerity. This is very disturbing as they're cheering on mindless violence in the name of "get the rich!".

To be fair, "Get the rich!" is a message commonly propagated in the course of mindless political violence.

Stormrider wrote:
Granted this isn't all of why the riots are going on, but just senseless looting and rioting because a thug was shot? I'm not buying it.

People riot because their sports team lost, and even sometimes when they won. Its certainly not beyond the pale for judicial actions to cause riots, there was a particularly famous instance in which this occurred in Los Angeles.

Stormrider wrote:
That's a convenient cover and reason, but not the underlying one. This smacks of a class of people so dependent on Government that they know no other way to function. Pure and simple.

I'm confused, how are you linking this to socialism?

Stormrider wrote:
I don't know what's worse, that the riots are going on or that the BBC called people defending their homes & businesses as "Vigilantes". Disgusting. Try rioting around here and you're likely to wind up dead or horribly injured for your actions. When did the UK become so neutered?

See, people have said that several times in this thread, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a time when American police resorted lethal force in the face of a riot; and it certainly hasn't been sufficiently widespread to make the suffering of either consequence "likely". The use of lethal force in the suppression of rioters is generally the province of authoritarian governments, not liberal democracies.

I think one thing that helped the citizens of L.A. was their right to bear arms. Like I said earlier, armed Korean shopkeepers were able to defend their families and businesses from hordes of violent looters who had been targeting Asian minorities, without the help of the police. I'm not sure how strict gun control is in the U.K., or how many Britts own guns.

Some food for though-what would the situation in Britain be like now, if, like here in the states, the police had access to submachine guns? Or if the shop owners could legally carry weapons?

Probably be similar to what they have now. While the brits used to have a liberal view on firearms -ownership-...that does not automatically convey a permissive view towards their use, even in defense of life and limb.

I'm not sure how strict gun control is in the U.K., or how many Britts own guns.

Extremely strict compared to the US, particularly towards anything that might appear to be a modern combat longarm or most any handgun. Even their olympic team has to leave the borders to practice, last I heard. Not many own them.

romegamer wrote:I think one thing that helped the citizens of L.A. was their right to bear arms. Like I said earlier, armed Korean shopkeepers were able to defend their families and businesses from hordes of violent looters who had been targeting Asian minorities, without the help of the police. I'm not sure how strict gun control is in the U.K., or how many Britts own guns.

They're far more strict that those in the US, though its worth noting that relatively lax gun control also increases the likelihood that the rioters themselves will be armed.

dogma wrote:

romegamer wrote:I think one thing that helped the citizens of L.A. was their right to bear arms. Like I said earlier, armed Korean shopkeepers were able to defend their families and businesses from hordes of violent looters who had been targeting Asian minorities, without the help of the police. I'm not sure how strict gun control is in the U.K., or how many Britts own guns.

They're far more strict that those in the US, though its worth noting that relatively lax gun control also increases the likelihood that the rioters themselves will be armed.

True. However, When pitted against a desperate person defending their livelyhood, and possibly their family, I think a thug who was looking to steal something without being challeneged will not be willing to risk his life, while the shopkeeper may have no choice.

However, When pitted against a desperate person defending their livelyhood, and possibly their family, I think a thug who was looking to steal something without being challeneged will not be willing to risk his life, while the shopkeeper may have no choice.

To boot, one stands a better chance armed and outnumbered than they do unarmed and outnumbered. The cost of losing is also no higher. Being beaten to death is a better fate than being shot dead only in the minds of people who still have romantic notions of fighting.