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Last couple of updates:

Mostly finalized greens from Bob:


Revised Dark Priest head:

Today we received prototype cards for the classes using a slight different card type then we usually do, but are not happy with the results. They are good enough to show at Templecon at least, but not appropriate for sale; though we might end up handing them out to folks at the show. They ended up being too glossy/difficult to read... and had two typos. These issues will be fixed, and we'll be playtesting for a few more weeks before finalizing these unit rules and getting the proper cards printed.

We've got a pledge manager in the works, but it does not look like it will be complete before the end of the week. We'll keep you informed as we have information on it. I'm not sure how easy it will be to receive new pledges (IE Didn't pledge at all during the Kickstarter) during this stage, but we're working on an alternate option just in case.

That skeleton full of arrows is hilarious

I've never been a fan of blob bases, but some very nice models there-- I like the expressions and poses quite a bit.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I've never been a fan of blob bases, but some very nice models there-- I like the expressions and poses quite a bit.

These will be in resin, so it will be very easy to remove those if Wehr doesn't before he casts them.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

I hate attached bases and foot tabs, ever since they killed my parents leaving me a millionaire orphan.
I will probably leave the little bit under the feet though, so you can glue them to a base and throw on some sand without covering up half the foot.

Looking good, nice to see the project moving along, so many greens on one table would hate to think how much that lot cost. Any chance we can see some close-ups of these individually in the near future, especially the chemist.?

 Rolt wrote:
Looking good, nice to see the project moving along, so many greens on one table would hate to think how much that lot cost. Any chance we can see some close-ups of these individually in the near future, especially the chemist.?

I'll have Wehr take some when they get in.

Should have some painted examples before the end of Feb, possibly having the Earth Troll at Templecon.

Sounds good, I look forward to any templecon coverage you post up, if you get the chance, won't being going to that even't sadly.

Om nom. All so good looking. Want want want

The dice are in!

 Zygrot24 wrote:
Om nom. All so good looking. Want want want

You need to come back up to OTL again.

 Cyporiean wrote:
You need to come back up to OTL again.

For real! There should be a black kiwi waiting for me which I badly want and you owe me kiwi assembly. Well, I've got the kiwi's assembled, but the shrews, however..


I am SHAMEFULLY behind on my brushfire hobbying.

Kickstarter Update - Misfire wrote:Good News, Bad News Time!
Good News!
We're going to start Stage 1 of the Pledge Manger/NewGame+ tonight. Surveys will go out for you to pick the items included in your base pledge level. Extras will be dealt with in Stage 2.

The quicker we get these back, the easier it will be to get Stage 2 underway for you to select the extras you added to your pledge as well as any additional options you wish to get.

Bad News!
You may remember when we displayed the Dragoon a few weeks ago we mentioned there were several problems with the sculpt that prevented it from being producible and that we would be contacting Brother Vinni to fix that issues.

Its been 22 Days without reply. This is after having several months of no reply during the initial sculpting.

While the issues with the sculpt would be a simple fix (Digital Sculpt), his non-communication is making us have to look into alternatives. Mainly we're going to have Heath design a Male Dragoon variant this week, and if we haven't gotten word back from Vinni by the time we return from Templecon we'll add it to Bob's next batch of stuff to sculpt for us. This way should Vinni fix the issues at some future point we won't be doubling up on the same model. This will likely cause a delay in getting the Air Crystal Chest out to folks, but we should still be able to make the Aug shipping estimate.

We know that this will anger and disappoint those of you who were looking forward to Vinni's Dragoon, but know we are right there with you.

Further good news is that Daniel is starting the Beastmen this week, so pics of that soon.

Kickstarter Update: Dragon Attack wrote:Heath just sent us the alternate Dragoon art:


This design reflects a 'Dark Dragoon' as opposed to the 'Light Dragoon' that Noah did previously. Eventually we plan on producing Male and Female versions of both Dragoons along with other variants of the classes.

Bob Naismith will be sculpting this model to replace the Dragoon included in the Air Chest. If/When we are able to get Brother Vinni to fix the previous Dragoon sculpt we will make it available to all backers at a reduced price.

---

In other news, Bob's greens have arrived safely at our caster. He is going to be working overtime this weekend to have a few master casts ready for us next week so that we can have them on display at Templecon and use them for demoing while at the show!

fun, I like the kind of retro hatching style

I love Noah's art and Vinni's sculpt, but Heath did a great job, and I can't wait to see Bob's sculpting bring that to life. I love the differences between the "light Dragoon" and the Dark Dragoon, I can't wait to use that Harpoon

I don't think this is a good decision at all... the cast of the previous dragoon looked decent to me. I know some detail was too small and didn't come out, but it Must be possible to either:

1) Have Wehrkind work his magic to cast it as-is

or

2) Have another sculptor take either a cast from Wehrkind, or a 3d print of the digital sculpt, and make the necessary modifications.

I'll quote the update where the Dragoon sculpt was shown below. The two changes mentioned are both "bulking up" (the spear, and the connection of the wings to the helmet) and possibly reducing the number of parts. Both of these seem doable with either 1) or 2) above. Wehrkind might even be able to do the bulking up, or Daniel Fokine, etc?

I seriously think one of these options should be explored, and exhausted, before abandoning basically THE iconic sculpt of this project, and replacing it with another.

 Cyporiean wrote:

Kickstarter Update #40 - A Dozen Red Roses For My Darling wrote:Our caster finished up the first master cast of the Dragoon today, which you can see below. Unfortunately in doing so a number of issues have come up related to its sculpt that we'll be needing to get corrected. Since its a digital sculpt this should be easy to fix/reprint, and we'll keep you all up to date on it.

Below is the cast with no clean up and just a quick prime/dry brush paint job.



The main issues are just the spear needs to be bulked up as do the connection points for the wings on the helmet. We're also hoping to lower the number of parts she is in, as its currently around 10.

See above. That is, as you wrote, the cast with no clean up and just a drybrush. That is a servicable model, imo, and I think at the very least people should be given the option to choose that one "faults and all" instead of a new design and sculpt not shown during the campaign.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, the only thing I can see in the picture above that is a show-stopper as far as being a usable model is the wings broken off from the helmet (Very easy to add a bit of greenstuff at the joint of the cast, and re-cast it from the master) and the lack of a spear (again, very easy to have someone sculpt a new spear, rather than an entire new model).

Please consider this as I think otherwise you will have a lot of disappointed backers, and are overlooking the simplest and best solution, which is to make the fixes you had in mind, but using someone else. Just because the sculpt is digital doesn't mean the fixes have to be digital- I've seen the kiwi body fix in-person, and it's sculpted right on top of a cast of the original body. There's no reason the same fix couldn't be employed here.

Cy has mentioned that since it's a digital sculpt that it's an easy fix, and has said it would probably take close to thirty minutes for her to fix it. The problem is that she doesn't have the file from Vinni, and can't get a hold of him for a variety of reasons. Couple this small issue with the fact that it took Vinni 3 months longer than expected to get them the sculpt in the first place and you've got a situation where going back to the sculptor is looking like a total pain in the arse and not conducive to deadlines. I agree that the major issues (wings on the helm and the spear) seem easy to fix, and admittedly they are through the digital modeling program Cy has. The problem is getting the file to edit or getting Vinni to edit it.

The other problem is that the sculpt is really complex for a single mini. 10 pieces for something that could easily be a body, left arm, right arm (with weapon), wing pieces, dress wing pieces (7 pieces total) or less (though this is just me speculating since I don't have the casting experience that Wehr has, though I believe he has talked to Cy about this).

I also believe the issue with fixing (read: adding on to the current sculpt) the model with a sculptor or Wehr is that the model is in such a way that it would have to be basically resculpted. The "switch" to the Dark Dragoon is beneficial in three ways. 1) It alleviates the need to wait for a really good sculptor that's a pain to get a hold of (Vinni) and 2) It gives the class an Alternative model and stat card (something that is already in the game with the Dwarf Gunsmith and the regular Gunsmith and 3) It helps ensure that the Kickstarter backers get their stuff on time. We know that people aren't happy with this, we're not. I basically sold this game to my friends on the Brother Vinni sculpt, and so as a compromise we're switching that one out with the Dark Dragoon and offering the Light Dragoon to backers at a discounted price, if we can get it fixed.

No, bulking up the wing connection points and spear does Not require resculpting the model.

No offense, Alf, but I'm waiting to hear from Cyporiean and Wehrkind on this. I have been to Wehrkind's shop and I know what he can do. That cast looks eminently fixable from the pic, and I would need to hear Wehrkind say otherwise.

I actually am better informed on this than you as I saw the parts in-person with Wehrkind. So, please don't answer for Cyporiean or Wehrkind on this, I'd like to hear what they think directly about why this cast can't simply have the helmet wing joint bulked out, and the spear resculpted.

Look at the pic, the rest is usable, and people should have the option to choose it, even as-is, but preferably with those 2 easy fixes... Not an entire resculpt.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm answering for Cy, I had no doubts that you've seen the sculpt while I've only seen pictures, as my work with OTL has strictly been over the interwebs. I'll see if I can't find where Cy mentioned the issues with the sculpt which could be lost to the warp since Google Docs doesn't store conversations held in documents, but many of the things that I pointed out (number of pieces, the ability to get the file and edit it, etc...) are all valid points and are things that Cy has said in conversations with her.


Edit: The closest thing I could find to Cy talking about the Dragoon sculpt (from OTL's forums)

Emily Fontana wrote:

Lakoda wrote:
This might be a dumb question but could you send the master to another artist to make the changes? It's probably financially not feasible but I had to ask just in case.

While fixing the issues on the mesh would be easy (I could do it in about 30 minutes if I had the file) and then just require it to be reprinted, trying to fix it on the actual model would be around the same amount of work as sculpting a new one.

No problem, Alf, and sorry if I came off a little straight- I just want to be clear about the issue.

Number of parts certainly makes casting more expensive, but it doesn't make the model Not castable. Also, Wehrkind already cast those parts, as they're shown in the pic, although perhaps not in a production mold yet.

And while I have no doubt that you were told "trying to fix it on the actual model would be around the same amount of work as sculpting a new one", I have two problems with that.

1) If it is around the same amount of work, and a new sculpt is being proposed instead, that work should be directed to fixing this sculpt because this is what people pledged for. I understand that having another dragoon adds value in other ways, but that's not what people pledged for. The money spent having someone sculpt the new model could be spent having them fix this one, instead.

2) It should Not be the same amount of work, if only the two critical items are fixed (the joint of the wings to the head, and bulking out or sculpting a new spear).

Thus, I think the time/money that would have been directed to making an alternate sculpt, should be directed to this one instead. I also feel like some of the parts can be combined to make casting easier or less expensive, and a few pieces could simply be attached permanently together while making these fixes to reduce the number of parts to be cast.

Finally, a high number of parts in the model, while making it complex, does not make it impossible to make. This is the model that was committed to in the project, and a cast has been shown of it, so even if a high number of parts were required, that's the model that should be gone forward with.

For myself, it is this model, and the earth troll, that I think look the best in Endless Fantasy, and I'd even be tempted to get one of these Dragoons "just because" even though I am not picking up the game, as I have too many already. To have this sculpt be abandoned would be really poor form when the same effort that could be directed to making an alternate sculpt, could instead be directed to fixing it and giving people what they pledged for, and what is the iconic sculpt of this game thus far.

As a backer, I would incredibly disappointed if the original dragoon was abandoned. it's what drew me to the project in the first place, and seeing her tossed aside would be sad because she's great looking! Do what you guys must, I do actually like not-Kain, but I really hope the lady dragoon is fixed and offered in time to make her viable for the pledge manager. That would be ideal. Then Air Chest backers can pick which dragoon they want.

I'm not disagreeing with you, which is why the only thing I'm going to quote from your post is the following:

 RiTides wrote:
And while I have no doubt that you were told "trying to fix it on the actual model would be around the same amount of work as sculpting a new one", I have two problems with that.

The post that I quote from OTL's forums was a public post in the EFT: Current Status thread, so I'm not sure if the "you" in your quote was a "you" as in me (specifically), or the more generic, plural "you". *Shrugs* I'm sure more details have been shared with me that I don't have record of thanks to Google Docs, but ultimately it's not my choice as I just vomit words into a document that look vaguely like rules and fluff.

Ok, I don't know what the final plan will be, but let me clarify a bit about the dragoon:

It can be cast. That pic was of a master I put together, primed etc. Mostly I was worried about how the details would come out, but it also turned out the head wings were a little too delicate in resin, and the spear parts didn't really connect with the hands in a useful way.
As it is now, even if the number of parts isn't an issue, there need to be a few changes. If Vinnie can/will do them, awesome. It will be quicker that way. If not, Bob or Daniel probably will get it and sculpt the minor changes by hand.

Getting back to the issues, the head wings are whisper thin, as are the spear things; the hands are shaped to accommodate an even smaller spear still. And then there is how some of the parts go together which is... sub optimal. And a few other things that could stand tweaking.

These can all be fixed, it is just a matter of when and how, but it will be sooner rather than later. I am totally in love with the model's aesthetics, and I know Emily is really fond of it as well. Unless she has a stroke or something and decides to change EFT into a game about making pastries in a kitchen full of caffeinated pre-schoolers, the ballerina-goon will be there. The current question is how to do that without shipping a model we are not proud of while getting everyone what they want as soon as possible.

Also, those of you going to Templecon will be able to see the lass in person, either the Purple Passion version above or another cast I put together. I guarantee you will say "Holy gak, she is TINY!" She really is proportioned like an anorexic dancer.

 Wehrkind wrote:
It can be cast. That pic was of a master I put together, primed etc. Mostly I was worried about how the details would come out, but it also turned out the head wings were a little too delicate in resin, and the spear parts didn't really connect with the hands in a useful way.
As it is now, even if the number of parts isn't an issue, there need to be a few changes. If Vinnie can/will do them, awesome. It will be quicker that way. If not, Bob or Daniel probably will get it and sculpt the minor changes by hand.

...

Also, those of you going to Templecon will be able to see the lass in person, either the Purple Passion version above or another cast I put together. I guarantee you will say "Holy gak, she is TINY!" She really is proportioned like an anorexic dancer.

Awesome to both of the above! Having Bob or Daniel sculpt the minor changes, instead of having Bob sculpt a replacement male dragoon (or in addition to) is definitely the way to go, imo (and as recruittons says).

Wehrkind, if you need me to transport the "purple passion" () version or another to TempleCon, I definitely can . I would probably need to pick it up this weekend, though. I promise to treat it like an egg and cradle it in my carry-on baggage... (I've PM'ed you)

I'm confused. I don't see anywhere that Em says that the sculpt will be abandoned, only that it will be delayed until things can be taken care of to strengthen the model. Could someone point me out where people are getting the idea that the sculpt is being abandoned?

I shouldn't have said "abandoned". But she did say...

Bob Naismith will be sculpting this model to replace the Dragoon included in the Air Chest. If/When we are able to get Brother Vinni to fix the previous Dragoon sculpt we will make it available to all backers at a reduced price.

...meaning that the female dragoon wouldn't be in the Air Chest, but would be fixed later and offered at a discount.

Originally, she posted this:

Cyporiean wrote:While the issues with the sculpt would be a simple fix (Digital Sculpt), his non-communication is making us have to look into alternatives. Mainly we're going to have Heath design a Male Dragoon variant this week, and if we haven't gotten word back from Vinni by the time we return from Templecon we'll add it to Bob's next batch of stuff to sculpt for us. This way should Vinni fix the issues at some future point we won't be doubling up on the same model. This will likely cause a delay in getting the Air Crystal Chest out to folks, but we should still be able to make the Aug shipping estimate.

We know that this will anger and disappoint those of you who were looking forward to Vinni's Dragoon, but know we are right there with you.

Followed the next day by this:

Cyporiean wrote:This design reflects a 'Dark Dragoon' as opposed to the 'Light Dragoon' that Noah did previously. Eventually we plan on producing Male and Female versions of both Dragoons along with other variants of the classes.

Bob Naismith will be sculpting this model to replace the Dragoon included in the Air Chest. If/When we are able to get Brother Vinni to fix the previous Dragoon sculpt we will make it available to all backers at a reduced price.

I have no problem with the male dragoon being sculpted at some point. But instead of paying a sculptor to make an alternate sculpt, that money should be re-directed to having a sculptor fix the original sculpt. I know it would be easier to have Brother Vinni do it, but clearly that's not happening, and the fixes to the helmet wings and spear should be very possible to do by hand.

So, if they haven't heard from Brother Vinni by TempleCon, I think the obvious solution (and what backers here have posted saying they want) is to have Bob Naismith get the cast (or 3d print) of the original dragoon to fix, rather than asking him to sculpt a new dragoon then (which is what Cyporiean posted saying they would do).

Hmm, I actually like the male dragoon concept a lot better and if it translates to an actual model even half as well as I hope I'll certainly get it.
...as opposed to the female dragoon, which I positively loathe. Goes to show, I guess

I'm guessing you didn't pledge during the kickstarter for the female dragoon, given that opinion but a lot of other people did. Which is why it should be the one to be made with the money that would've been put towards additional sculpting, rather than an alternate model.