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Heh, how'd you guess? I'm not really arguing with that; however, plans can change with a KS and the whole "hey, vinny will fix it - eventually -" angle has some merit too... (More cost-effective in the end). Perhaps an option to delay shipping to wait for the female dragoon would be an idea? I mean, they say if vinni doesn't come through, they'll have it fixed anyway?

Cyporiean had said "when/if" Vinni fixes it, they'd offer it for sale, and instead would have a different model sculpted to sub in for backers who pledged for her.

Okay, so I sleep in for once and thats when my threads get a flood of replies..

So the Dragoon, as a backstory Here is the timeline of events for her creation...

Back in January we decided to start getting some sculpts done for Endless in order to get the ball rolling on it. We initially had Daniel do the Sorcerer (which we're using) and the Cleric (which was scrapped) after getting them we decided to keep Daniel doing Brushfire & monsters for Endless and to look into other options for the Humans of Endless. During Brushfire's Kickstarter we decided to contact Brother Vinni after seeing his work for Necros, and his own line of miniatures. In early April we paid him to sculpt the Dragoon, which was to be a two-month project... It was not until late July he decided to reply to me... not until September that I got a screen shot of the mesh... and then late November when I finally received it. Once I did finally have it in my hands, I wasn't very please with it. It was a fine sculpt, probably one of the best we've gotten, but parts of it were too frail looking, and it was going to be a bigger PITA to assemble then the Shrew Hussars for Brushfire, but I sent it to Eric anyway in the hopes that his casting magic could lower the bit count and maybe the lance wouldn't snap off to a gentle breeze after all.

Shortly after Christmas Wehr was able to make a master cast, and give me his thoughts on the sculpt... which is probably the longest e-mail I've gotten from him since we started doing business together. It comes down to around 5 things that are incredibly simple to fix thanks to it being a digital model, but very difficult to fix with a traditional sculpt. I do not believe Daniel is up to the task of fixing it, otherwise I would have had him do it. Bob might be able to fix it, but at his rates I'd rather get him to just make a new model from scratch, and there is always the possibility Vinni will get his gak together and answer an e-mail.

As for folks who pledged for her during the Kickstarter being upset... I've gotten more flak about it from people who didn't pledge during then Kickstarter then those that did. Our backers have been awesome and understanding, and even the few that did send me hate mail after the announcement rescinded it after seeing Heath's design. We know that Bob is both professional, fast, communicative, and that hiring him to sculpt for us will produce a quality & usable model every time.

When/If Vinni fixes the sculpt, or sends me the mesh, we'll get it produced and any backer who wants her will get her at a sizable discount (Likely Cost+Shipping), but since we don't know when that would be.. and given the issues we had getting her made in the first place, I doubt we could make our August deadline if we waited for the sculpt.

@Cyporiean: Fair enough. Like I said, I do like not-Kain. Not because of his design (I greatly prefer the female dragoon), but because FFIV was my first JRPG ever, so he holds a special place in my soul. If you can't make her work, I'll definitely accept having him as a replacement

recruittons, have you gotten a chance to look at the the Dark Dragoon's stat card? What do you think?

Nope! Where do I look at these things? I've been a terrible backer and not kept up properly on that stuff. Most of my news has come from this thread

 recruittons wrote:
Nope! Where do I look at these things? I've been a terrible backer and not kept up properly on that stuff. Most of my news has come from this thread

You should have gotten a link to use to get a copy of the PDFs via WargameVault shortly after it ended (the link has since expired), send me a msg through the Kickstarter interface and I'll get you a new one.

 recruittons wrote:
Nope! Where do I look at these things? I've been a terrible backer and not kept up properly on that stuff. Most of my news has come from this thread

Check your email, you should be getting an email from DriveThruRPG or WargamesVault (though it will be sent from Emily@on-the-lamb.com) It's subject should be Product Endless: Fantasy Tactics - Rulebook [BETA/Preorder] has been updated. At the bottom of the email there is a link that will take you to wargamesvault.com where you can download a preview pdf of the rulebook (which is being updated basically every week). Cy just added the Dark Dragoon's stats. While you can use the original Dragoon's stats, there are different ones for the Dark Dragoon

Message sent!


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Oh, wow! He's a bit of a monster, isn't he? I like Claw Gauntlet and Nidhogg's Hunger, in particular

I sent something that wasn't like 40 lines long once? Holy cow.

I suppose if people REALLY want the original dragoon sculpt, I can make a few and sell them for like 30$ as a collector's item. Because seriously, that lance will break just due to vibrations from dice hitting the table

Also, no, I can't sell them as a collector's item. No matter how large a pile of cocaine you place just off camera...

So can you or can't you sell them as collectors items

I disagree with this and have explained why. It's great that some backers are OK with it, but those are your hardcore fans of this game. Those on the fence (such as myself) being more critical makes sense.

This model being made might've made me think I missed out waiting on this. But this decision highly validates my decision to wait and see all the sculpts first.

You could fix the sculpt, but because you think it could cost as much as a new sculpt (doubtful) you decide to shelve it indefinitely. And that's after people paid for it. You need the support of more than your most core fans for this game to take off, and I can't think of a way to lose the possibility of that faster than indefinitely abandoning your best sculpt in favor of having a different one made, instead of having the sculptor fix this one (Bob Naismith).




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Just wanted to say that all this is meant as constructive criticism and I'm still looking forward to seeing the OTL crew at TempleCon, for their other game that I love . Constructive criticism ≠ hate mail

 RiTides wrote:

You could fix the sculpt, but because you think it could cost as much as a new sculpt (doubtful) you decide to shelve it indefinitely. And that's after people paid for it. You need the support of more than your most core fans for this game to take off, and I can't think of a way to lose the possibility of that faster than indefinitely abandoning your best sculpt in favor of having a different one made, instead of having the sculptor fix this one (Bob Naismith).

If I was going to have Bob fix this sculpt from the core pieces, the only useable parts are part of the Legs and a portion of the torso. The adjustments needed to it would involve re-sculpting parts of the head, both arms, the skirt armor, the thighs, and the lance and at that point Bob is basically re-sculpting the model. We are not abandoning the sculpt, we are actively working towards getting Vinni to fix it (which since its a digital sculpt would be incredibly easy to fix with the mesh), but there is not much I can do other then continuing to try and reach him via e-mail.

I have hope that we will eventually be able to get the model fixed, but I have no idea when that will be. A key sign of us not abandoning this sculpt is the fact that we have Bob sculpting a different Dragoon; we could have easily had him sculpt a Dragoon based off of Noah's artwork, but since we're confident that the issue will be resolved eventually we won't have two of the same exact style/pose.

As this is Kickstarter that finished a good while ago, I have moved it to Misc Games as per the new policy. Please continue your conversation here.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

You could fix the sculpt, but because you think it could cost as much as a new sculpt (doubtful) you decide to shelve it indefinitely. And that's after people paid for it. You need the support of more than your most core fans for this game to take off, and I can't think of a way to lose the possibility of that faster than indefinitely abandoning your best sculpt in favor of having a different one made, instead of having the sculptor fix this one (Bob Naismith).

If I was going to have Bob fix this sculpt from the core pieces, the only useable parts are part of the Legs and a portion of the torso. The adjustments needed to it would involve re-sculpting parts of the head, both arms, the skirt armor, the thighs, and the lance and at that point Bob is basically re-sculpting the model. We are not abandoning the sculpt, we are actively working towards getting Vinni to fix it (which since its a digital sculpt would be incredibly easy to fix with the mesh), but there is not much I can do other then continuing to try and reach him via e-mail.

I have hope that we will eventually be able to get the model fixed, but I have no idea when that will be. A key sign of us not abandoning this sculpt is the fact that we have Bob sculpting a different Dragoon; we could have easily had him sculpt a Dragoon based off of Noah's artwork, but since we're confident that the issue will be resolved eventually we won't have two of the same exact style/pose.

To ask a possibly stupid question, have you tried getting him via a PM here on Dakka in case his email is dead/not getting stuff from you ?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

To ask a possibly stupid question, have you tried getting him via a PM here on Dakka in case his email is dead/not getting stuff from you ?

Yes, and I unfortunately didn't save the packaging the Dragoon came in to be able to send a traditional letter. :/

First masters of gels, dwarf and alchemist should appear in about an hour! Stay tuned!


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Wild EFT masters have appeared!

daw, beat me to it. DAT DWARF. Man, those gels have come out very, very nice.

 Zygrot24 wrote:
daw, beat me to it. DAT DWARF. Man, those gels have come out very, very nice.

Really glad how popular the Dwarf is, as I want to do a few more Dorf Classes. Rune Fencer for sure, possibly a Knight..

I love the Gel Warrior, but the helmet while humorous bugs me, but it is far from a deal breaker ... I want to take the dorf's helmet and put it on the gel, but I love the gel warrior's pose

If I hose up a few pours I will save the remnants for cheap conversion material perhaps? I always seem to have a few pounds of seconds on my work bench.

 Wehrkind wrote:
If I hose up a few pours I will save the remnants for cheap conversion material perhaps? I always seem to have a few pounds of seconds on my work bench.

You would become my favorite model caster if you could hook me up with some of this obviously

Talk to Cyp. We had knocked around the idea of selling seconds cheaper, giving them out at conventions as prizes, trading them for toothless hobo bj's, etc. I don't think we ever came to a conclusion though.

 Wehrkind wrote:
Talk to Cyp. We had knocked around the idea of selling seconds cheaper, giving them out at conventions as prizes, trading them for toothless hobo bj's, etc. I don't think we ever came to a conclusion though.

That last idea is worth it's weight in grimy gold!

Though honestly, I'd love some seconds, as long as they're not sloppy.

When can we expect pictures of the next masters?

Uhmmm... now? That work for you?



Newness is the Gunsmith and King Gel. You probably can't see in the pic, but the paint on the King and GS are a little crackled since the resin wasn't really cured when I sprayed them. If I had another three days they would be better, but since I have to leave for class in 15 minutes, you guys get the Antique White look
Next new things will be out over the weekend, once I get out from under this pile of not done homework :(

Dorfs and gels make me hunger for models. BRB driving to OTL global HQ and taqueria to burgle some models.

(I'm aware they probably have none.)

 Zygrot24 wrote:
Dorfs and gels make me hunger for models. BRB driving to OTL global HQ and taqueria to burgle some models.

(I'm aware they probably have none.)

OTL HQ staff is on their way to templecon, but the attack cats are still there from what I have heard... Also the models are in Va

 Zygrot24 wrote:
Dorfs and gels make me hunger for models. BRB driving to OTL global HQ and taqueria to burgle some models.

(I'm aware they probably have none.)

You can come up and see them next week, and pick up your Black Kiwi :p

You guys have a taqueria at your HQ, AND toothless hobo bjs‽ I knew I liked you for good reason.

Minis are looking good too!

Some pics from Templecon:

The gels look awsome painted! If only Wehr was up so casting some in clear colored resin...

If you ever intended to expand the line of Gels and Dwarves they might make a good base for a kickstarter along the lines of the Gnomish Adventurers Boxed Set. I know I for one would like to be able to run a force of just Gels or Dwarves with plenty of variaty.

Have I mentioned that I'm a huge fan of the Dwarves and Gels?

I got a chance to demo the game at Templecon and while I was probably the only one that Matt beat the entire convention I still had fun. I'm already thinking up a bunch of terrain that I'd like to make for the game once I finish my CNC router.