Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 frozenwastes wrote:
What month of the year did Space Hulk and Dread Fleet get released? And was the Hobbit set released during the same month?

Space Hulk 3rd Edition: August 17, 2009

Dreadfleet: 1 October 2011

I believe the Hobbit rulebook and some stuff was available in December 2012, with a larger release in February 2013. I can't find exact dates to back that up, though.

How much support would an inquisitor game require? Write the rulebook and make some minis for it. If it sells well they could write and expansion a year down the road. Even if they only make a rulebook for it they make money off the book and some models. If you have the rulebook you can play the game and make new missions up. Seems like a much better idea then making another fantasy version of a TT game about a modern sport and butchering it terribly.

 Davespil wrote:
Seems like a much better idea then making another fantasy version of a TT game about a modern sport and butchering it terribly.

Blood Bowl is NOT a fantasy version of American Handegg.

I am 100% all for a game in the 40k universe where the total cost to play the full game is lower. But not if it is a limited edition game that is gone once the print run sells out. And not even if it gets slowly shelved and ignored like the specialist games line. And if the support basically amounts to "hey, buy a 40k box set and just use those models" then GW is going to see that no one buys Inquisition stuff, but buys 40k stuff. And if there are new supplements that are either iPad only or direct only, then it won't work with "pay where you play" approach for those who frequent an independent retailer.

We know GW isn't going to go hat-in-hand to the traditional distributors. Kirby bragged in last year's financials about how smart it was to go direct and cut out the distributors, so that means if retailers want this, they have to deal with GW's unwillingness to sell it to them.

And if it is regularly available for years to come at the local GW stores, it directly competes with 40k for the demo sales process. And if the game has an overall lower cost, then GW is shifting people from a high-revenue sales track to a low revenue one. I don't think they'll do that.

I don't think we'll see anything other than a Space Hulk style one-off with the occasional iPad only supplement and some characters that also work fine with 40k.

Once a company makes a game, they have zero obligation to 'support' it. I'm curious when this attitude of eternal support came about. Maybe TSR is to blame.

If its good, people will play it for years. I still play Space Hulk, and certainly don't need, or even want, an expansion for it. I'm very pleased that there isn't a years worth of WD articles with additions, errata, supplements, etc. because I don't want to buy WD.

If they make a one-shot Inquisitor box, with great figures, and sell out of it (and it will) how is that not a good business move? Personally I think the 40K and Fantasy model is straight up WRONG. A game system that requires you to buy book after book to have a complete ruleset? When AD&D started the trend of separate rulebooks for player and DM it at least made sense, but in 40K there's no umpire that needs 'hidden' information. A player of a game should have access to all the rules. Right?

I'm pretty sure a big box skirmish game, even an unsupported one-shot, would entice new players, and even expatriate players that have left 'the GW Hobby'.

Looks like a re-release of Space hulk.
Lets hope the models are NOT done in finecast.

I'm pretty sure a big box skirmish game, even an unsupported one-shot, would entice new players

If such a game was to be released it would do virtually nothing to entice new players since like Space Hulk and Dreadfleet it would be sold only in GW stores and therefore mostly to existing customers. The tiny fraction of first time walk-in customers buying such a game would be miniscule.

And since most of the customers for such a game would be existing GW customers, sales would be limited to those with an interest in buying something outside their usual purchasing patterns. If the game is of interest to a lot of existing GW customers (e.g., Space Hulk) they might sell tens of thousands of copies, if it's not (e.g., Dreadfleet) they'll sell a few thousand at most and be stuck with the rest. Even if it's a hit like Space Hulk not every GW customer will buy one due to lack of interest, cost, etc. Even Space Hulk as popular as it was didn't fully sell out. GW brought some to US Games Day the following summer months after it was removed from sale.

The fact that this topic thread is now 14 pages long when there is still no confirmation at all that there will be a "mystery box" release this year is amusing. If there is one and it's, say, Bloodbowl, people discussing an Inquisitor game invested a lot of time for nothing. If there's no "mystery box" at all this year all the people who've been closely following this thread really invested a lot of time over nothing.

Personally, I've been glancing at this thread very infrequently just to see if there was anything new and worthwhile in it. You know, looking for some actual news or a solid rumor. Today is the first time I looked at it in a week or so. I jumped right to the last page of posts as I generally do, skipping over everything else figuring that the latest few posts would be a good indicator of whether or not there was any actual known and useful information posted somewhere before it which I could then go back and look at. As I expected, there apparently has been none. Glad I didn't waste my time actually looking through the thread.

dkellyj wrote:
Looks like a re-release of Space hulk.

How so? did i miss something?

dkellyj wrote:
Looks like a re-release of Space hulk.
Lets hope the models are NOT done in finecast.

Because GW is well-known for all its finecast boxed games. Seriously, if you have even been half paying attention to anything GW releases, you must have noticed it is always, without fail, plastic!

 Desubot wrote:

dkellyj wrote:
Looks like a re-release of Space hulk.

How so? did i miss something?

Don't feed the trolls.

Space Hulk the VIDEO GAME is being released on August 15. You can advance order from Steam. There is no indication of a Space Hulk boxed game re-release. That would be risky for GW since the thousands of us who already bought it in 2009 would not be buying it this time around. It would sell a fraction of the copies it did in 2009 if they re-released it so soon.

Space Hulk link:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/242570

Dr Mathias wrote:Once a company makes a game, they have zero obligation to 'support' it. I'm curious when this attitude of eternal support came about. Maybe TSR is to blame.

There are a few factors involved.

One is that ongoing product releases are a vote of confidence. I know that product lines that get new releases year-in, year-out are actually played by people. There are opponents out there. Otherwise the company wouldn't be spending money designing and publishing the products. If a company makes a game and then does nothing after, it's because they believe it's not worth the capital. And what's the only way it's not worth the capital? if it's not selling well enough to merit future purchases. Or in the case of GW, they don't want to allocate production to something that might cannibalize 40k.

The second is that in many places, hobby gaming is tied to organized events at local stores. And you need product releases to give the store something to sell. If products are all one-offs with no follow up support, then those interested will get the game and that will be the end of the revenue stream. And in many places, that'll mean that the local community surrounding the game will dry up as less and less places will be available to play.

If its good, people will play it for years. I still play Space Hulk, and certainly don't need, or even want, an expansion for it. I'm very pleased that there isn't a years worth of WD articles with additions, errata, supplements, etc. because I don't want to buy WD.

You missed out on the 1st Ed golden age of Space Hulk. it was well supported and people were making all sorts of custom forces. There were two major expansions as well as WD support, there was also the Citadel Journal articles.

 Dr Mathias wrote:
Once a company makes a game, they have zero obligation to 'support' it. I'm curious when this attitude of eternal support came about. Maybe TSR is to blame.
If its good, people will play it for years. I still play Space Hulk, and certainly don't need, or even want, an expansion for it. I'm very pleased that there isn't a years worth of WD articles with additions, errata, supplements, etc. because I don't want to buy WD.
If they make a one-shot Inquisitor box, with great figures, and sell out of it (and it will) how is that not a good business move? Personally I think the 40K and Fantasy model is straight up WRONG. A game system that requires you to buy book after book to have a complete ruleset? When AD&D started the trend of separate rulebooks for player and DM it at least made sense, but in 40K there's no umpire that needs 'hidden' information. A player of a game should have access to all the rules. Right?
I'm pretty sure a big box skirmish game, even an unsupported one-shot, would entice new players, and even expatriate players that have left 'the GW Hobby'.

I'm actually happy with "one-box" games, particularly boardgames. By "support", we're kinda talking about two different things in this thread, though:


1) People are talking about "with the option to use all their 40k stuff". Now think about how much 40k stuff there actually is. Even 40k doesn't seem to be big enough to support all the 40k stuff these days. It would take years, even if you cut out all the dreadnoughts, tanks, and Carnifexes. Can you see GW making a game that uses cheap plastic troop-type 40k figures but doesn't allow Helldrakes and DreadKnights and WraithKnights? Yeah, me too!

2) Support in the context of the game actually, you know, remaining available. Dread Fleet and The Hobbit are both still available, but for all the wrong reasons. Space Hulk is an utter bitch to get hold of, on the other hand.

I can maybe see a "one-box" game, but then again, I'm expecting the Hobbit to be their boxed games for Christmas 2013 and 2014 - due to probable contractual obligations if nothing else...

Once a company makes a game, they have zero obligation to 'support' it. I'm curious when this attitude of eternal support came about. Maybe TSR is to blame.

I have no idea how long you have been in the hobby, so don't take this as an insult, but you must have missed the glory days of Specialist Games in it's prime. Those days (and 40K at the same time period) was GW at their game-supporting best. Specialist games actually had their own mini-mag, as well as some of their main games like Battlefleet Gothic, Necromunda, and Mordheim.

Now we get stuff that only people with Ipads can access........blarf.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Once a company makes a game, they have zero obligation to 'support' it. I'm curious when this attitude of eternal support came about. Maybe TSR is to blame.

I have no idea how long you have been in the hobby, so don't take this as an insult, but you must have missed the glory days of Specialist Games in it's prime. Those days (and 40K at the same time period) was GW at their game-supporting best. Specialist games actually had their own mini-mag, as well as some of their main games like Battlefleet Gothic, Necromunda, and Mordheim.

In other words, when GW was at its best

Tons of people beg to differ, but that's definitely my opinion. GW used to support the hell out of their IP. Now they just kind of pimp it.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Now we get stuff that only people with Ipads can access........blarf.

Which things are those? I was of the understanding that all of the new digital products existed as regular eBooks as well.

 cincydooley wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Now we get stuff that only people with Ipads can access........blarf.

Which things are those? I was of the understanding that all of the new digital products existed as regular eBooks as well.

That and Space Hulk is PC as well.

 cincydooley wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Now we get stuff that only people with Ipads can access........blarf.

Which things are those? I was of the understanding that all of the new digital products existed as regular eBooks as well.

I think the only "core" Codex available at the moment is Eldar.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions?page=1

Vetric wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Now we get stuff that only people with Ipads can access........blarf.

Which things are those? I was of the understanding that all of the new digital products existed as regular eBooks as well.

I think the only "core" Codex available at the moment is Eldar.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions?page=1

It sounds like everything from now on will be.

 Azazelx wrote:

Anything that allows you to use stuff from the majority of the 40k range in would be far too big in scope and need of support to ever happen, and the risk of people stopping there is too large. They want us going from 40k to Apocalypse, not from 40k to Inquisimunda.

40k allows for smaller games already. If this were not so then GW would have made the foc stipulate higher minimums. Rules would be written to make games below say 1500 points impossible to play. They don't do that, instead they build up how better the larger games are and rely on wow factor to get people buying more to play larger games.

Having a dedicated skirmish game would not take people away, it would bring in people who currently don't like the wargamming style of the current rules or aren't interested in Space Marines - the main faction any newbie hears about. Inquisimunda as you put it does not need to be big in scope at all. It needs rules to assemble an Inquisition force and rules for a chaos or xenos one. I think cultists would be best.
Existing fans would buy the game as it's part of the wider universe they are familiar with. New people, wanting to learn more about the wider 40k universe would become interested in 40k and learn about Black Library and Forge World.

yeah,
I hate this gak...

 pretre wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

dkellyj wrote:
Looks like a re-release of Space hulk.

stupid question?...

Don't feed the trolls.

Don't be so stupid... you sound like an auto-Troll!...
Have you actually considered his post properly and evaluated its value?

He's right Space Hulk 1.2 would sell out.
and in two years time Space HulK 1.3 will sell out too...

SOLD!!! to the auto-trolls!

Panic...

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
I hate this gak...

 pretre wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

dkellyj wrote:
Looks like a re-release of Space hulk.

stupid question?...

Don't feed the trolls.

Don't be so stupid... you sound like an auto-Troll!...
Have you actually considered his post properly and evaluated its value?

He's right Space Hulk 1.2 would sell out.
and in two years time Space HulK 1.3 will sell out too...

SOLD!!! to the auto-trolls!

Panic...

Ok, so did you read the comment?
The reason the guy is being called a troll is because in a thread based around the notion that Space Hulk is not being re-released, and another game is being discussed, he randomly says the contrary with no cause or evidence like it's obvious.

 frozenwastes wrote:

Dr Mathias wrote:If its good, people will play it for years. I still play Space Hulk, and certainly don't need, or even want, an expansion for it. I'm very pleased that there isn't a years worth of WD articles with additions, errata, supplements, etc. because I don't want to buy WD.

You missed out on the 1st Ed golden age of Space Hulk. it was well supported and people were making all sorts of custom forces. There were two major expansions as well as WD support, there was also the Citadel Journal articles.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Once a company makes a game, they have zero obligation to 'support' it. I'm curious when this attitude of eternal support came about. Maybe TSR is to blame.

I have no idea how long you have been in the hobby, so don't take this as an insult, but you must have missed the glory days of Specialist Games in it's prime. Those days (and 40K at the same time period) was GW at their game-supporting best. Specialist games actually had their own mini-mag, as well as some of their main games like Battlefleet Gothic, Necromunda, and Mordheim.

Just wanted to clarify that I've been playing GW games for over 20 years, with an absence during 4th and early 5th edition 40K. I fondly recall the glory days of Space Hulk (of which I own all the editions) and I have seven Necromunda gangs. I liked all the extra stuff in Citadel Journal, all the various magazines like Gang War and Planet Killer etc. I was a voracious GorkaMorka and Battlefleet Gothic player. I was happy to buy WD for many, many years.

But, I also like "Bommerz", Block Mania (admitting one expansion and a WD article for that) and the other one-shot games, even the Dark Eldar gladiator rules published in WD.

I'm just saying I think its okay for a company to produce a standalone game, no fuss, no expansions, no implicit support for years to come.

I don't think a 40K setting skirmish would cannibalize 40K. I think if done right, GW games can cross-pollinate. Using Necromunda gangs as IG, or Gorkamorka orcs for 40K, are examples that did happen, and not infrequently.

Maybe my expectations are skewed because I play historical games like AK-47 Republic and The Sword and the Flame that don't have massive (or any) producer support, yet remain popular within the historical playerbase (which I will fully admit is much smaller, and maybe even irrelevant for this comparison).

As another posted, this thread is pretty long, and kind of odd considering lack of substance, so I shouldn't have said anything

I get what you are saying, but with historicals, the risk is so much lower than with sci-fi or fantasy from a specific universe. It's so much easier to use your existing figures and try a new historical rules set as you'll never be left with figures from a very specific universe that don't work well with other figure lines in the future.

cadbren wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Anything that allows you to use stuff from the majority of the 40k range in would be far too big in scope and need of support to ever happen, and the risk of people stopping there is too large. They want us going from 40k to Apocalypse, not from 40k to Inquisimunda.

40k allows for smaller games already. If this were not so then GW would have made the foc stipulate higher minimums. Rules would be written to make games below say 1500 points impossible to play. They don't do that, instead they build up how better the larger games are and rely on wow factor to get people buying more to play larger games.

Having a dedicated skirmish game would not take people away, it would bring in people who currently don't like the wargamming style of the current rules or aren't interested in Space Marines - the main faction any newbie hears about. Inquisimunda as you put it does not need to be big in scope at all. It needs rules to assemble an Inquisition force and rules for a chaos or xenos one. I think cultists would be best.
Existing fans would buy the game as it's part of the wider universe they are familiar with. New people, wanting to learn more about the wider 40k universe would become interested in 40k and learn about Black Library and Forge World.

You seem to be agreeing with me while trying to disagree??

I agree that any Inquisimunda game would be small in scope. Say, Inquisitors vs Cultists, and few to no additional rules as they wouldn't want people bringing their Tyranids and Eldar into it, but instead turning their Inquisitors and Cultists into 500-pt armies from the Grey Knights and Chaos codices, and up and away from there.

Having said that, I can't see anything being "dedicated" to beyond a three-month limited splash release window.

It would be great if they made a 40k skirmish game and took the opurtunity
to produce genestealer culists, squats, sisters of battle and other beloved
relics of GWs haydays that would not interfere with regular 40k sales.
Perhaps some sweet servants of omnissiah!

But this would prove that GW acknowledge the existence of those nostalgic bits
and the good players of dakka would surely read profhesies of doom and/or revelation
in such a release.

There's no doom. And no one is predicting doom. I keep reading things like "good players of dakka would surely read prophecies of doom" but no one actually ever predicting doom. Even in the threads about GW's financials. Or a thread complaining about prices.

This idea that there's a subset of Dakka members that see the end of GW around every corner just isn't true.

What I don't see is a place for this new game in their current business model unless they go for another limited run like Space Hulk or price it so high that the lower model count is off set by much higher prices. They need to get a certain amount of revenue for each person who starts and part of 40k and WFB's purpose is to be a high model count game in order to sell the idea of buying a greater quantity of models.

 frozenwastes wrote:
There's no doom. And no one is predicting doom. I keep reading things like "good players of dakka would surely read prophecies of doom" but no one actually ever predicting doom. Even in the threads about GW's financials. Or a thread complaining about prices.

This idea that there's a subset of Dakka members that see the end of GW around every corner just isn't true.

It is called "Reductio ad absurdum", a few GW White Knights are incapable of admitting their beloved's failings so they kind of have to resort to that type of "argument" to try and discredit its critics.

 BrassScorpion wrote:

The fact that this topic thread is now 14 pages long when there is still no confirmation at all that there will be a "mystery box" release this year is amusing. If there is one and it's, say, Bloodbowl, people discussing an Inquisitor game invested a lot of time for nothing. If there's no "mystery box" at all this year all the people who've been closely following this thread really invested a lot of time over nothing.

You are correct. This thread is a discussion about a rumour in its purest form. It is not news. However I don't believe it is All for not. As is true with all conversations this is a sharing of ideas. It has allowed many people the opportunity to express their feelings of excitement and frustration, hopes and dreads, or opinions in general about a shared interest. For these reasons I have found it quite useful.

Again you are right. This may never materialize into anything tangible, but I would argue that the fact that it has caught the attention of so many people and produced 14 pages worth of ideas makes it something.