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They needed the blood of the innocent to shield then from nurgles plague I think. Grey Knights are many things but innocent is not one of them, which I think was the point.

 Leth wrote:
They needed the blood of the innocent to shield then from nurgles plague I think. Grey Knights are many things but innocent is not one of them, which I think was the point.

The shinning knight in armour is not as perfect as you think. The story of all 40K heros lol

livanbard wrote:Hell. Brace yourselves for not-centurions in 3rd market.

Or at the very least weapon options and upgrade parts. I'm all for 3 inch tall robots and power suits as long as they look cool.

 Marthike wrote:
The shinning knight in armour is not as perfect as you think.

Wait a sec... which ones are the armored shinning knights? Why would they want to kick someone in the shins as a way of dealing with them? Don't they have power weapons or bolters like the rest of the Imperium? Or is this some weird Eldar aspect? And why aren't they perfect? Don't they practice enough?

 Breotan wrote:

 Marthike wrote:
The shinning knight in armour is not as perfect as you think.

Wait a sec... which ones are the armored shinning knights? Why would they want to kick someone in the shins as a way of dealing with them? Don't they have power weapons or bolters like the rest of the Imperium? Or is this some weird Eldar aspect? And why aren't they perfect? Don't they practice enough?

Force boots, easy to pick up, difficult to master!

 FarseerAndyMan wrote:
I just want to see my Thunderfire Cannon get the ability to be bought in a unit of 1 - 3.

That would be the bane of my enemies.

That would be beyond forgeworld level of broken. Do you even realize how borderline broken the TFC is now with the new artillery rules?

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They should make 10 man tactical squads unlock Devs and ASM's as troops, in the sense of how many tac squads you take allow you to take dev or ASM squads as troops.

Example, I take two two man tac squads, I am then able to purchase 1 ASM and 1 Dev squad, or 2 ASM or 2 Dev squads as troops

The limit is then that you can't take more than two of each, so if you take three Tac's you can't take 3 Dev's (as there aren't 3 squads in the standard company format). It fits the fluff and would solve the over crowding.

That's actually a brilliant idea! Exalted! Only now I'm gonna be sad when it doesn't happen.

D

 ph34r wrote:

 FarseerAndyMan wrote:
I just want to see my Thunderfire Cannon get the ability to be bought in a unit of 1 - 3.

That would be the bane of my enemies.

That would be beyond forgeworld level of broken. Do you even realize how borderline broken the TFC is now with the new artillery rules?

The TFC can't buy additional crew that turns into T7 wounds though.

And my DE just LOVE poisoning artillery to death

1-3 thunder cannons are not a bad idea, but it would be broken as hell, you have to factor not just the cannon itself (12 str6 blasts would melt anything on foot) but the fact that 3 bolster defences would give you almost army wide 3+ cover, throw in a aegis line and all you would see is 6 thunder cannons 1 tooled up pred or dev.squad and 2 5 man tacticals, this would come in at 920 with 4 lascannon dev and 2 las cannon in the 5 man tacos (assuming same as da) that is crazy fire power in such a small force

As unlikely as it is, I'd like to see a plastic dual kit for Thunderfire Cannon/Rapier Laser Destroyer (We know they're never gonna bring back the mole mortar.)

Plastic TFC with a proper plastic techmarine would rock, though I already have a finecast one that I need to finish assembling (after having already gotten it replaced once), and likely won't need more unless they indeed would allow them in "squadrons" or if I start playing more Apoc - the latter seems unlikely, after the LGS closed the new regular gaming locations mostly don't support Apoc-size that well.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
OK, here's a question: who would you like the author to be?

I'm going to come out and say I want Ward to get the gig again...because the current C:SM is the book I've most enjoyed playing.

Yes, let's have Ward write the codex. Then we can read about Ultramarines killing Khorne with their bare hands while wearing Sisters of Battle Skins for capes. And then there'd be a story about an Ultramarine captain who single handidly destroys a Tyranid fleet by throwing a Sister of Battle into their main exhaust port.
And then a story about an Ultramarine Librarian who, kills a Sister of Battle and....

Yep, expected that to be a controversial opinion. For what it's worth, I agree that the Bloodtide was bad fluff that contradicted everything in the Codex. But I'm not going to dismiss his entire output based on one paragraph.

He's written a few bits of bad fluff and some OP rules. I could be talking about any Codex writer at this point, though. If he writes this book, I'll be expecting solid rules like we have in the current version.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
They should make 10 man tactical squads unlock Devs and ASM's as troops, in the sense of how many tac squads you take allow you to take dev or ASM squads as troops.

Example, I take two two man tac squads, I am then able to purchase 1 ASM and 1 Dev squad, or 2 ASM or 2 Dev squads as troops

The limit is then that you can't take more than two of each, so if you take three Tac's you can't take 3 Dev's (as there aren't 3 squads in the standard company format). It fits the fluff and would solve the over crowding.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Take an exalt.

I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Think the Imperial Guard kinda has that covered...

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Serfs or whatever? That would definitely be cool, though it might make more sense as an allied list, and marine players might not be attracted to the basic human units.

Zanderchief wrote:
I dunno if fluff would permit it but the whole 1000 to a chapter has always bothered me.

Since most fluff stories I have come across focuses on the company strength that's 100 dudes.

To fight Necrons/Nids/Orksies/etc.
On a whole planet.

The scale has always felt off (Okay with Dark Eldar or Eldar who do not like committing huge numbers that that sounds ok).

So a new unit could be the regular human fighters they use (dunno what they usually call them). Even if they job is to secure areas the actual Marines already won.

Just a thought.

Thats called imperial guard. And keep in mind marines work as rapid strike forces to do critical damage. They dont do trench warfare and such.

EDIT: Redacted, I genuinely cannot be arsed dealing with the Matt Ward Defence League for the eleventy-billionth time.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Fezman wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
OK, here's a question: who would you like the author to be?

I'm going to come out and say I want Ward to get the gig again...because the current C:SM is the book I've most enjoyed playing.

Yes, let's have Ward write the codex. Then we can read about Ultramarines killing Khorne with their bare hands while wearing Sisters of Battle Skins for capes. And then there'd be a story about an Ultramarine captain who single handidly destroys a Tyranid fleet by throwing a Sister of Battle into their main exhaust port.
And then a story about an Ultramarine Librarian who, kills a Sister of Battle and....

Yep, expected that to be a controversial opinion. For what it's worth, I agree that the Bloodtide was bad fluff that contradicted everything in the Codex. But I'm not going to dismiss his entire output based on one paragraph.

He's written a few bits of bad fluff and some OP rules. I could be talking about any Codex writer at this point, though. If he writes this book, I'll be expecting solid rules like we have in the current version.

I don't know where people are getting this idea that Ward writes "solid rules" from, his books usually have one or two netlist builds which end up doing well, but the internal balance is among the worst. And people's objections to his fluff don't end with "the Blood Tide Affair"; Mortarian's heart on the Early Bird Special menu? Floaty ghost-Terminators? Ultramarines as the "popular kid" star of an American highschool teen drama? Avatar pimpslappery? Ward is the EL James of Games Workshop - a writer of awful, awful fanfics who's inexplicably experienced success.

And again, yes, I agree that most of the examples you've posted are poor fluff. But they're scattered examples that would hardly fill a couple of pages.

FWIW I think the focus on Ultramarines in C:SM made sense given that they are now the "all-rounder" of Codex Chapters.

As for internal balance problems and the effectiveness of netlists, well, these can be applied to all Codices. Take a look at Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Orks to name a few. And my reply to these issues is...so what? Nobody's forcing players to run a netlist or only pick the super-competitive stuff. Just because one thing in the FOC is clearly superior to the rest (e.g. Vendettas) doesn't mean you're obliged to take them. In other words, unless you're playing in tournaments, I think that use of netlists and the "best" units is the decision of the player and no fault of the author.

The reason I say that the current C:SM has "solid rules" is because it doesn't immediately leap out as being OP or weak,, exactly as the "all-rounder" army should. I don't see people bleating about how the book is too easy to win with or moaning because they can't win with it. I know that I can use it to throw together a wide range of lists from it ranging from the ultra-competitive to the complete opposite and still have a good time, with rules that fit how Marines should "feel," very few units that feel like I'd never want to take them, and decent wargear.

 Yodhrin wrote:


I don't know where people are getting this idea that Ward writes "solid rules" from, his books usually have one or two netlist builds which end up doing well, but the internal balance is among the worst.

Compared to what? Long Fangs? Pyrovores? Mutilators? Heldrakes? Venom Spam?

As far as internal balance is concerned, Mat Ward's book are lightyears above those of other writers. The C:SM and C:BA in 5th were a thing of beauty. Tank-lists, Jumper-Lists, Terminator-Lists, Shooty-Lists, Bike-Lists, etc.. Either of those had more viable internal variety than all non-Ward 5th Edition books taken together.

And people's objections to his fluff don't end with "the Blood Tide Affair"; Mortarian's heart on the Early Bird Special menu? Floaty ghost-Terminators?

Opposed to what? Maugan Ra defending an entire fething planet against a Nid-Hive fleet? Vect lopping loony-toon Black Holes without damaging the interior decoration (much less the rest of Commorrah)? The brilliantly named Decaptiator-wielding Decaptiator who decapitates people. Space Wolves going on sexual adventures (despite being... well.. Marines) with stolen Thunderhawks before throwing square-dance parties with Eldar in the Great Hall of Fenris?

Gimmie a break.

Ultramarines as the "popular kid" star of an American highschool teen drama?

Someone hasn't read the 4th Edition Space Marines Codex me thinks. There has never been as much non-Ultramarines fluff in any SM Codex, hell not even in all pre-5th Edition SM-Codexes together than that put in by Ward in the 5th Edition book. If anything, he should be scolded for giving White Scars, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Crimson Fists, Salamanders, etc. so much unprecedented limelight.

Avatar pimpslappery?

So what. A Chapter Master kills an Avatar? What's the deal. How is that worse than a random Imperial Guardsmen breaking Ravenor necks barehanded - literally barehanded! Or, as said, one lone Eldar Phoenix Lord (with lots of ammunition) defending an entire planet!!!! pole-to-pole and round the equator from an invading space-fleet?

And the Avatar things is what grinds your gear? Really?

Here are some rumours on price/contents changes for tactical squads and the Rhino being made into a combined kit with two types of Razorback (assault and shooty):

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/space-marines-new-tactical-and-new.html

Not sure if this is meant to be regarded as a rumour or if it's just speculation. If credible it suggests Tactical Squads will gain a lot more bits, but will go up to £30...

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


I don't know where people are getting this idea that Ward writes "solid rules" from, his books usually have one or two netlist builds which end up doing well, but the internal balance is among the worst.

Compared to what? Long Fangs? Pyrovores? Mutilators? Heldrakes? Venom Spam?

As far as internal balance is concerned, Mat Ward's book are lightyears above those of other writers. The C:SM and C:BA in 5th were a thing of beauty. Tank-lists, Jumper-Lists, Terminator-Lists, Shooty-Lists, Bike-Lists, etc.. Either of those had more viable internal variety than all non-Ward 5th Edition books taken together.

And people's objections to his fluff don't end with "the Blood Tide Affair"; Mortarian's heart on the Early Bird Special menu? Floaty ghost-Terminators?

Opposed to what? Maugan Ra defending an entire fething planet against a Nid-Hive fleet? Vect lopping loony-toon Black Holes without damaging the interior decoration (much less the rest of Commorrah)? The brilliantly named Decaptiator-wielding Decaptiator who decapitates people. Space Wolves going on sexual adventures (despite being... well.. Marines) with stolen Thunderhawks before throwing square-dance parties with Eldar in the Great Hall of Fenris?

Gimmie a break.

Ultramarines as the "popular kid" star of an American highschool teen drama?

Someone hasn't read the 4th Edition Space Marines Codex me thinks. There has never been as much non-Ultramarines fluff in any SM Codex, hell not even in all pre-5th Edition SM-Codexes together than that put in by Ward in the 5th Edition book. If anything, he should be scolded for giving White Scars, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Crimson Fists, Salamanders, etc. so much unprecedented limelight.

Avatar pimpslappery?

So what. A Chapter Master kills an Avatar? What's the deal. How is that worse than a random Imperial Guardsmen breaking Ravenor necks barehanded - literally barehanded! Or, as said, one lone Eldar Phoenix Lord (with lots of ammunition) defending an entire planet!!!! pole-to-pole and round the equator from an invading space-fleet?

And the Avatar things is what grinds your gear? Really?

Agree. In hindsight and after more exposure to all things 40k, the 5th ex. SM codex is really a thing of beauty.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


I don't know where people are getting this idea that Ward writes "solid rules" from, his books usually have one or two netlist builds which end up doing well, but the internal balance is among the worst.

Compared to what? Long Fangs? Pyrovores? Mutilators? Heldrakes? Venom Spam?

As far as internal balance is concerned, Mat Ward's book are lightyears above those of other writers. The C:SM and C:BA in 5th were a thing of beauty. Tank-lists, Jumper-Lists, Terminator-Lists, Shooty-Lists, Bike-Lists, etc.. Either of those had more viable internal variety than all non-Ward 5th Edition books taken together.

And people's objections to his fluff don't end with "the Blood Tide Affair"; Mortarian's heart on the Early Bird Special menu? Floaty ghost-Terminators?

Opposed to what? Maugan Ra defending an entire fething planet against a Nid-Hive fleet? Vect lopping loony-toon Black Holes without damaging the interior decoration (much less the rest of Commorrah)? The brilliantly named Decaptiator-wielding Decaptiator who decapitates people. Space Wolves going on sexual adventures (despite being... well.. Marines) with stolen Thunderhawks before throwing square-dance parties with Eldar in the Great Hall of Fenris?

Gimmie a break.

Ultramarines as the "popular kid" star of an American highschool teen drama?

Someone hasn't read the 4th Edition Space Marines Codex me thinks. There has never been as much non-Ultramarines fluff in any SM Codex, hell not even in all pre-5th Edition SM-Codexes together than that put in by Ward in the 5th Edition book. If anything, he should be scolded for giving White Scars, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, Crimson Fists, Salamanders, etc. so much unprecedented limelight.

Avatar pimpslappery?

So what. A Chapter Master kills an Avatar? What's the deal. How is that worse than a random Imperial Guardsmen breaking Ravenor necks barehanded - literally barehanded! Or, as said, one lone Eldar Phoenix Lord (with lots of ammunition) defending an entire planet!!!! pole-to-pole and round the equator from an invading space-fleet?

And the Avatar things is what grinds your gear? Really?

An excellent retort. The whole thing about the gauntlets made that entire story actually believable and I really enjoyed reading it all.

Compared to some of the crazy gak that goes down in the 40k universe, its madness to even mention Marneus and his mighty deeds!

 Fezman wrote:
Here are some rumours on price/contents changes for tactical squads and the Rhino being made into a combined kit with two types of Razorback (assault and shooty):

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/space-marines-new-tactical-and-new.html

Not sure if this is meant to be regarded as a rumour or if it's just speculation. If credible it suggests Tactical Squads will gain a lot more bits, but will go up to £30...

The Tacs redone sounds possible. more bitz, lots of unneeded ones left but the price may go....

Twin role Razorback otoH? maybe flamers and asscans need less space now and there is an option to assault from it?

Can you feel the rising tide from such a move?

 ph34r wrote:

 FarseerAndyMan wrote:
I just want to see my Thunderfire Cannon get the ability to be bought in a unit of 1 - 3.

That would be the bane of my enemies.

That would be beyond forgeworld level of broken. Do you even realize how borderline broken the TFC is now with the new artillery rules?

Wait, the same Thunderfire Cannon that no one would take in 5th because it was overcosted and gak gets a buff that makes it useful and better balanced so now it's "borderline broken"? Did I miss something there?

Yes Zion...that's what happens in an ed change??
5th ravenwing sucked bum, now they rock.

Anywho what I.think he is trying to say is one thunder cannon is
Not an issue, 1-3 would be too hard, I would gladly pay 300 pts for all the ruins in my dep zone to be 3+ and have the ability to throw out 12 str6 templates or ignores cover or slows enemy, that would make it into nearly every marine army either as allies, or just taking them in codex marines

I like the idea of the “Centurions”, I always wanted “Terminator Heavy Weapon Squads”.

As for the some of the others, I like what I am reading so far.
As for my wallet though, I don’t see much damage unless I see a some things.
1] Centurions
2] Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports
3] New Land Raider variant.
4] Plastic Sternguard/Vanguard Vets
5] Plastic Honor Guard

 Formosa wrote:
Yes Zion...that's what happens in an ed change??
5th ravenwing sucked bum, now they rock.

Anywho what I.think he is trying to say is one thunder cannon is
Not an issue, 1-3 would be too hard, I would gladly pay 300 pts for all the ruins in my dep zone to be 3+ and have the ability to throw out 12 str6 templates or ignores cover or slows enemy, that would make it into nearly every marine army either as allies, or just taking them in codex marines

No, I get that the edition change made it better, I just don't understand why it's now considered "borderline broken".

More news and rumors, more discussion of said news and rumors, less wish-listing and attempting to One Up Fluff Trounce, please!