Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What of the Mechanicus Dataspike and the Skitarii Chordclaw?

The Dataspike as seen on the Datasmith and Dominus states: When a model equipped with a weapon that has this special rule makes melee attacks, it makes an additional attack with this weapon at I10, this doesn't grant a Pile-in Move.

The Chordclaw's rules state: When a model equipped with a Chordclaw makes its close combat attacks, one of those attacks will be a dissonance attack (roll this attack separately). A Dissonance Attack has the Fleshbane Special Rule.

The way I, and I think most other Mechanicus/Skitarii players have been playing it, has it that these rules apply when the model is attacking with another weapon. In particular, the Dominus gets to hack away with his power axe but with a quick strike from the Dataspike beforehand.

Does the "equipped" language act as explicit enough permission to counter the 'no mix and match without permission' rule? Otherwise I've been playing this wrong all this time.

 Thariinye wrote:

Does the "equipped" language act as explicit enough permission to counter the 'no mix and match without permission' rule? Otherwise I've been playing this wrong all this time.

This is the EXACT question that no one can, or ever will, agree on. This is why this thread has gone on for 14 pages.

 Thariinye wrote:
What of the Mechanicus Dataspike and the Skitarii Chordclaw?

The Dataspike as seen on the Datasmith and Dominus states: When a model equipped with a weapon that has this special rule makes melee attacks, it makes an additional attack with this weapon at I10, this doesn't grant a Pile-in Move.

The Chordclaw's rules state: When a model equipped with a Chordclaw makes its close combat attacks, one of those attacks will be a dissonance attack (roll this attack separately). A Dissonance Attack has the Fleshbane Special Rule.

The way I, and I think most other Mechanicus/Skitarii players have been playing it, has it that these rules apply when the model is attacking with another weapon. In particular, the Dominus gets to hack away with his power axe but with a quick strike from the Dataspike beforehand.

They are Weapon abilities, so fall under the same case as Unwieldy, Blind, and Colossal.

 Thariinye wrote:
Does the "equipped" language act as explicit enough permission to counter the 'no mix and match without permission' rule? Otherwise I've been playing this wrong all this time.

"Equipped" and "possess" are in the same category. Effectively speaking we have nothing stating whether this does or does not qualify as bypassing or ignoring the More Than One Weapon rule.

Without something stating it does, I have to default with the perspective of "does not".

In that case, the Chordclaw does nothing, as it has Fleshbane as a standard rule, IIRC.

So when a model makes its attacks, it chooses either the chordclaw or transonic razor. If it chooses the Chordclaw, then the rule makes one of chordclaw attacks a chordclaw attack (woo) and if it chooses the transonic razor, nothing happens.

So, bascially, your interpretation causes the rule to do literaly nothing, except say that when attacking with the weapon, one attack must be with the weapon.

woo.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In that case, the Chordclaw does nothing, as it has Fleshbane as a standard rule, IIRC.

So when a model makes its attacks, it chooses either the chordclaw or transonic razor. If it chooses the Chordclaw, then the rule makes one of chordclaw attacks a chordclaw attack (woo) and if it chooses the transonic razor, nothing happens.

So, bascially, your interpretation causes the rule to do literaly nothing, except say that when attacking with the weapon, one attack must be with the weapon.

woo.

Nope, it does not have Fleshbane, just Melee, Molecular Dissonance (the referenced rule), and Transonic (which the Razor has, and is a non-Vehicle Rending type rule).

 Charistoph wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In that case, the Chordclaw does nothing, as it has Fleshbane as a standard rule, IIRC.

So when a model makes its attacks, it chooses either the chordclaw or transonic razor. If it chooses the Chordclaw, then the rule makes one of chordclaw attacks a chordclaw attack (woo) and if it chooses the transonic razor, nothing happens.

So, bascially, your interpretation causes the rule to do literaly nothing, except say that when attacking with the weapon, one attack must be with the weapon.

woo.

Nope, it does not have Fleshbane, just Melee, Molecular Dissonance (the referenced rule), and Transonic (which the Razor has, and is a non-Vehicle Rending type rule).

Ah okay, makes sense.

So just to double check, when Abaddon chooses to attack with Drach'nyen, Blood Angels suddenly loose hatred against him, as it comes from the Talon of Horus and you can't mix and match abilities.

Antubis wrote:
So just to double check, when Abaddon chooses to attack with Drach'nyen, Blood Angels suddenly loose hatred against him, as it comes from the Talon of Horus and you can't mix and match abilities.

That Hatred is not a Weapon ability, but in the area of "Wargear abilities". If you notice that this note of Hatred is before the profile and is not referenced by a keyword under "Type".

 Charistoph wrote:

Antubis wrote:
So just to double check, when Abaddon chooses to attack with Drach'nyen, Blood Angels suddenly loose hatred against him, as it comes from the Talon of Horus and you can't mix and match abilities.

That Hatred is not a Weapon ability, but in the area of "Wargear abilities". If you notice that this note of Hatred is before the profile and is not referenced by a keyword under "Type".

Seriously? A little bit of effort for consistency here, ok? Not that it matters as no one plays Blood Angels

 Charistoph wrote:

Antubis wrote:
So just to double check, when Abaddon chooses to attack with Drach'nyen, Blood Angels suddenly loose hatred against him, as it comes from the Talon of Horus and you can't mix and match abilities.

That Hatred is not a Weapon ability, but in the area of "Wargear abilities". If you notice that this note of Hatred is before the profile and is not referenced by a keyword under "Type".

Agreed. Weapon abilities are listed under a weapon's type. Anything outside the profile doesn't count as a weapon ability.

Naw wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Antubis wrote:
So just to double check, when Abaddon chooses to attack with Drach'nyen, Blood Angels suddenly loose hatred against him, as it comes from the Talon of Horus and you can't mix and match abilities.

That Hatred is not a Weapon ability, but in the area of "Wargear abilities". If you notice that this note of Hatred is before the profile and is not referenced by a keyword under "Type".

Seriously? A little bit of effort for consistency here, ok? Not that it matters as no one plays Blood Angels

I have seriously stated this numerous times in this thread. I have even associated this concept with Grenades. So the consistency is there. Try reading a little more of the thread before you start kicking your own teeth in by such declarations.

For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

Colossal is type as well.

Hatred is a special rule and.it is granted from being the bearer of the weapon, despite it not being listed under type for the talon.

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

Colossal is type as well.

Hatred is a special rule and.it is granted from being the bearer of the weapon, despite it not being listed under type for the talon.

None of the things you listed are types. They are all special rules/weapon abilities. Go back and re-read the rules. The Type section contains both the weapon's type (i.e. Melee, Rapid Fire, etc) as well as the weapon's special rules/weapon abilities.

"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types: Assault, Bomb, Heavy, Ordnance, Pistol, Primary Weapon, Rapid Fire or Salvo."

"Weapons with the Melee type can only be used in close combat."

"The type section of a weapon’s profile also includes any special rules that apply to the weapon in question."

It's important that we're precise about the rules.

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

Colossal is type as well.

Hatred is a special rule and.it is granted from being the bearer of the weapon, despite it not being listed under type for the talon.

None of the things you listed are types. They are all special rules/weapon abilities. Go back and re-read the rules. The Type section contains both the weapon's type (i.e. Melee, Rapid Fire, etc) as well as the weapon's special rules/weapon abilities.

"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types: Assault, Bomb, Heavy, Ordnance, Pistol, Primary Weapon, Rapid Fire or Salvo."

"Weapons with the Melee type can only be used in close combat."

"The type section of a weapon’s profile also includes any special rules that apply to the weapon in question."

It's important that we're precise about the rules.

I appreciate your comments, and being precise is important. However you did not actually respond to anything.

As for Vauls work, which grants fearless to the bearer, it is listed under type for the Shard of Anaris.

Just as Colossal is listed under type for the Greataxe of Khorne.

So they are listed as under types. Your entire comment that colossal is not the same as melee, or vauls work is not the same as pistol dodges the question without answering it in any way what so ever.

Claiming they are somehow wargear abilities instead of special rules granted either by being the bearer of a weapon, or by striking with it is nonsensical as there is no rules for such.

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

To be fair, I'm not sure this really would affect much of anything. Are the Tests that Fearless address part of the Fight sub-phase and/or part of Striking Blows? It is after all Initiative Steps are used after all, and I couldn't find anything right off the bat one way or the other any more than the timing of Weapon usage is determined (aside from a specific point it HAD to be accomplished by).

 Charistoph wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

To be fair, I'm not sure this really would affect much of anything. Are the Tests that Fearless address part of the Fight sub-phase and/or part of Striking Blows? It is after all Initiative Steps are used after all, and I couldn't find anything right off the bat one way or the other any more than the timing of Weapon usage is determined (aside from a specific point it HAD to be accomplished by).

It's becoming increasingly hard to follow your argument as it becomes more and more convoluted. Are you saying that a model with the Shard of Anaris is only Fearless if he is using that weapon in the Fight sub-phase? And that he wouldn't automatically pass a Fear test if he wanted to use a different weapon. I'm just trying to clarify what you are claiming. Thanks.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

To be fair, I'm not sure this really would affect much of anything. Are the Tests that Fearless address part of the Fight sub-phase and/or part of Striking Blows? It is after all Initiative Steps are used after all, and I couldn't find anything right off the bat one way or the other any more than the timing of Weapon usage is determined (aside from a specific point it HAD to be accomplished by).

It's becoming increasingly hard to follow your argument as it becomes more and more convoluted. Are you saying that a model with the Shard of Anaris is only Fearless if he is using that weapon in the Fight sub-phase? And that he wouldn't automatically pass a Fear test if he wanted to use a different weapon. I'm just trying to clarify what you are claiming. Thanks.

The way I read his post was he is questioning when the fear tests would come into play as you have fearless all the time EXCEPT when "striking blows" with a different weapon. So if the fear test comes after all the initiative steps you still have fearless. But if the fear test occurs after choosing a different weapon but before the blows are struck then you wouldn't have fearless. That's the way I deciphered it.

blaktoof wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

Colossal is type as well.

Hatred is a special rule and.it is granted from being the bearer of the weapon, despite it not being listed under type for the talon.

None of the things you listed are types. They are all special rules/weapon abilities. Go back and re-read the rules. The Type section contains both the weapon's type (i.e. Melee, Rapid Fire, etc) as well as the weapon's special rules/weapon abilities.

"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types: Assault, Bomb, Heavy, Ordnance, Pistol, Primary Weapon, Rapid Fire or Salvo."

"Weapons with the Melee type can only be used in close combat."

"The type section of a weapon’s profile also includes any special rules that apply to the weapon in question."

It's important that we're precise about the rules.

I appreciate your comments, and being precise is important. However you did not actually respond to anything.

As for Vauls work, which grants fearless to the bearer, it is listed under type for the Shard of Anaris.

Just as Colossal is listed under type for the Greataxe of Khorne.

So they are listed as under types. Your entire comment that colossal is not the same as melee, or vauls work is not the same as pistol dodges the question without answering it in any way what so ever.

Claiming they are somehow wargear abilities instead of special rules granted either by being the bearer of a weapon, or by striking with it is nonsensical as there is no rules for such.

They are weapon special rules. They're "active" per their rules text, except when striking with a different weapon in close combat. I'm really not sure what you're asking. Can you be a little more specific with your question. I don't think they're "wargear abilities", whatever that means. If the Vaul's Whatever ability grants Fearless to the user, it would do so in all instances EXCEPT when the wielder is attacking with a different weapon. During that narrow timeframe, the wielder would not be granted Fearless. Of course, it could easily be argued (and I'd tend to agree) that by the time you'd care whether or not a model is Fearless (typically when determining combat results), you're no longer striking blows and the model would again gain Fearless. The BRB doesn't really define "comes to strike blows", but the most narrow definition possible - based on context and an overall knowledge of the rule set, and one that I can get behind - would be Initiative steps 10 to 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

To be fair, I'm not sure this really would affect much of anything. Are the Tests that Fearless address part of the Fight sub-phase and/or part of Striking Blows? It is after all Initiative Steps are used after all, and I couldn't find anything right off the bat one way or the other any more than the timing of Weapon usage is determined (aside from a specific point it HAD to be accomplished by).

It's becoming increasingly hard to follow your argument as it becomes more and more convoluted. Are you saying that a model with the Shard of Anaris is only Fearless if he is using that weapon in the Fight sub-phase? And that he wouldn't automatically pass a Fear test if he wanted to use a different weapon. I'm just trying to clarify what you are claiming. Thanks.

You have Fearless at all times EXCEPT when striking blows with a different weapon. This weapon is sort of a bad example as it's extremely rare that Fearless would come into play during one of the Initiative steps of the Fight Sub-Phase. Typically, Fearless would come into play before the Fight proper starts or after you are done striking blows and when you are determining combat results.

Nobody is saying that a model with Shard of Anaris is only Fearless if he is using that weapon in the Fight Sub-Phase. We are saying that he is always Fearless except during the portion of the Fight Sub-Phase where blows are struck... at a minimum, Initiative steps 10 to 1. During that period, if he has chosen to attack with a different weapon, he doesn't benefit from Shard of Anaris's Vaul's Whatever weapon ability and therefore wouldn't gain Fearless.

How is it a bad example? You take Fear tests at the start of the Fight sub-phase, which essentially comprises the ten initiative steps.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
How is it a bad example? You take Fear tests at the start of the Fight sub-phase, which essentially comprises the ten initiative steps.

There's a big difference between "the start of the Fight Sub-Phase" and "the start of Initiative step 10". It's not a terrible example, it's just that you'd normally never be testing Fearless during an actual Initiative step. Before or after, sure, but not during. In that sense, losing Fearless while striking blows, but having it immediately before and afterwards would look very similar to having it all the time. A better example would be a weapon ability where the loss is felt during Combat.

Surely you have to decide which weapon you are using before initiative steps though, at the start of the Fight sub-phase. Otherwise you don't know when you will be striking. So you could lose Fearless right at the time you might need to test.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
For Shard of Anaris , the type vaults work grants the bearer fearless . Also listed as types are fleshbane and rending.

To be fair, I'm not sure this really would affect much of anything. Are the Tests that Fearless address part of the Fight sub-phase and/or part of Striking Blows? It is after all Initiative Steps are used after all, and I couldn't find anything right off the bat one way or the other any more than the timing of Weapon usage is determined (aside from a specific point it HAD to be accomplished by).

It's becoming increasingly hard to follow your argument as it becomes more and more convoluted. Are you saying that a model with the Shard of Anaris is only Fearless if he is using that weapon in the Fight sub-phase? And that he wouldn't automatically pass a Fear test if he wanted to use a different weapon. I'm just trying to clarify what you are claiming. Thanks.

For clarity, convoluted how? When Striking Blows, you cannot mix and match Weapon abilities, and only use one Weapon's abilities. This is quite a simple concept.

Fear Tests are performed "(called a Fear test) before any blows are struck". More Than One Weapon applies when Striking Blows. Blows cannot be struck before Initiative Step 10 and cannot be struck after Initiative 1. Fearless applies when you take the Fear Test and logically applies after you stop Striking Blows, so available before the Morale Check after determining Assault Results.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Surely you have to decide which weapon you are using before initiative steps though, at the start of the Fight sub-phase. Otherwise you don't know when you will be striking. So you could lose Fearless right at the time you might need to test.

Let's review the More Than One Weapon:

Unless otherwise stated, if a model has more than one shooting weapon, he must choose which one to shoot – he cannot fire both in the same Shooting phase. If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it’s worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 attack in close combat.

So it is when you come to Strike Blows.

Ok but if the Colossal rule applies at the start of the Fight sub-phase this already modifies the D thirster initiative to I1, when you get to this step and he comes to strike blows you can then choose which weapon to attack with.

having read the entire thread, I agree if it has the axe, its I1, full stop, that being said, that's not HIWPI, I will allow my D kin mates to swing at I with weapons its been upgraded with.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Ok but if the Colossal rule applies at the start of the Fight sub-phase this already modifies the D thirster initiative to I1, when you get to this step and he comes to strike blows you can then choose which weapon to attack with.

But right before Initiative 10 chooses a different Weapon, this rule is not in force, so could Strike Blows according to the Initiative associated without Colossal. Colossal affects when he Strikes Blows, so would be affected by any rule dismissing it when Striking Blows. Fearless Tests apply outside of Striking Blows, so is not affected by any rule that only applies when Striking Blows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
having read the entire thread, I agree if it has the axe, its I1, full stop, that being said, that's not HIWPI, I will allow my D kin mates to swing at I with weapons its been upgraded with.

And the reasons for ignoring More Than One Weapon are?

Without an explanation, this IS just a HYWPI declaration.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Ok but if the Colossal rule applies at the start of the Fight sub-phase this already modifies the D thirster initiative to I1, when you get to this step and he comes to strike blows you can then choose which weapon to attack with.

While the rules don't explicitly tell us when to select weapons, we can infer that it must happen before Initiative step 10 begins. Assuming it's the very last thing you do before Initiative step 10 begins, you'd start Initiative step 10, review all models to see who fights and proceed. At this point, Colossal is no longer active, because the models have all come to strike blows and have selected their weapons... none of which have the Colossal weapon ability.

In other words, Colossal MIGHT apply at the start of the Fight Sub-Phase, but it definitely doesn't apply at the start of Initiative step 10.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Ok but if the Colossal rule applies at the start of the Fight sub-phase this already modifies the D thirster initiative to I1, when you get to this step and he comes to strike blows you can then choose which weapon to attack with.

But right before Initiative 10 chooses a different Weapon, this rule is not in force, so could Strike Blows according to the Initiative associated without Colossal. Colossal affects when he Strikes Blows, so would be affected by any rule dismissing it when Striking Blows. Fearless Tests apply outside of Striking Blows, so is not affected by any rule that only applies when Striking Blows.

But now you are just contradicting yourself. Unless I am mistaken you are making the following assertions:
1. Colossal is in effect at all times apart from when attacking with another Weapon.
2. You choose which weapon to use when coming to strike blows.
3. Striking Blows occurs during the relevant initiative step of the Fight sub-phase.

So playing along with your interpretation, Colossal says go at I1 if you have a weapon with this rule. So when it gets to I1 you can choose to use a different weapon and Colossal no longer applies when attacking. But it really makes no difference now as all the other initiative steps have already passed and you're still going at I1 anyway.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Ok but if the Colossal rule applies at the start of the Fight sub-phase this already modifies the D thirster initiative to I1, when you get to this step and he comes to strike blows you can then choose which weapon to attack with.

But right before Initiative 10 chooses a different Weapon, this rule is not in force, so could Strike Blows according to the Initiative associated without Colossal. Colossal affects when he Strikes Blows, so would be affected by any rule dismissing it when Striking Blows. Fearless Tests apply outside of Striking Blows, so is not affected by any rule that only applies when Striking Blows.

But now you are just contradicting yourself. Unless I am mistaken you are making the following assertions:
1. Colossal is in effect at all times apart from when attacking with another Weapon.
2. You choose which weapon to use when coming to strike blows.
3. Striking Blows occurs during the relevant initiative step of the Fight sub-phase.

So playing along with your interpretation, Colossal says go at I1 if you have a weapon with this rule. So when it gets to I1 you can choose to use a different weapon and Colossal no longer applies when attacking. But it really makes no difference now as all the other initiative steps have already passed and you're still going at I1 anyway.

If you choose weapons when your initiative step comes other initiative affecting weapons wouldn't work. The tyranid's whip was mentioned earlier in this thread. It allows you to strike at an earlier initiative step. If you chose this weapon on your initiative step then you wouldn't be able to use it at all since the chance to use it has passed. This would mean weapon selection is done before initiative step 10.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Ok but if the Colossal rule applies at the start of the Fight sub-phase this already modifies the D thirster initiative to I1, when you get to this step and he comes to strike blows you can then choose which weapon to attack with.

But right before Initiative 10 chooses a different Weapon, this rule is not in force, so could Strike Blows according to the Initiative associated without Colossal. Colossal affects when he Strikes Blows, so would be affected by any rule dismissing it when Striking Blows. Fearless Tests apply outside of Striking Blows, so is not affected by any rule that only applies when Striking Blows.

But now you are just contradicting yourself. Unless I am mistaken you are making the following assertions:
1. Colossal is in effect at all times apart from when attacking with another Weapon.
2. You choose which weapon to use when coming to strike blows.
3. Striking Blows occurs during the relevant initiative step of the Fight sub-phase.

So playing along with your interpretation, Colossal says go at I1 if you have a weapon with this rule. So when it gets to I1 you can choose to use a different weapon and Colossal no longer applies when attacking. But it really makes no difference now as all the other initiative steps have already passed and you're still going at I1 anyway.

I am not asserting #3 at all. My belief, backed up by wording in the BRB and quoted earlier in this thread, is that the entire Fight Sub-Phase is to be considered the time when a model comes to strike blows. However, given that people were bickering about weapon selection and when it happens, I brought up that weapon selection must occur before Initiative step 10 begins to allow weapons like Lash Whips or Whip Coils to function. If we take the narrowest interpretation and say that weapon selection occurs immediately before Initiative step 10 happens, a D-Thirster who has a chosen a weapon other than the Axe of Khorne to fight with would not be subject to Colossal during any Initiative step. As such, he'd strike at his normal Initiative.

So really, it goes like this...

0. D-Thirster is subject to Colossal
1. Fight Sub-Phase starts
2. ...
3. Weapon Selection Occurs. Axe of Khorne is NOT selected.
4. ...
5. Initiative Step 10 starts. All models who strike at Initiative Step 10 do their thing. D-Thirster is not currently subject to Colossal.
6. Initiative Step 9 starts. All models who strike at Initiative Step 9 do their thing. This includes any D-Thirsters attacking with alternate weapons.
etc, etc.
N. Fight Sub-Phase ends
N+1. D-Thirster is again subject to Colossal

Kriswall-

I am fairly certain you are aware there is a difference on special rule for weapons. Some like rending or fleshbane affect the attack results when striking with the weapon. Some like "Vauls Work, Fleshbane, Murder, Colossal" affect the bearer.

The ones that affect the bearer never explicitly, or specifically call out they stop working at any time.

The rules for one weapon are in regards to special abilities when striking with a weapon, i.e. special rules a weapon has that are tied to striking with the weapon. Not rules that affect the bearer.

nothing in one weapon tells us a weapons special rules cease to exist, or do not work, when striking with another weapon. One weapon tells us we cannot benefit from the special rules used when striking with a weapon, when we are not using it.

Colossal, Vauls work, Cursed(on yriels spear), Murder, etc are not tied with striking with the weapon and these special rules still function when not using the weapon in the assault phase. A d-thirster is subject to colossal at all times. Much like Yriel is cursed at all times.