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There are (objectively) much better rules out there, no one cares about Hellions to the point they are completely valueless, no one could possibly use this game as a gateway into Dark Eldar ... I wish I were as wise as you think you are.
My point is not that WYSIWYG doesn't matter. It's that it generally doesn't matter in the kind of super-casual games where you might actually play with hellions. If you're the kind of player who goes "Hmmm, I'd better build these models WYSIWYG just in case I want to play with them in some kind of organized event with TOs"...then you'll never play with Hellions anyway.
And when it comes to the reavers, as I said you're technically in violation of WYSIWYG if you build them out of the basic kit. The rules say they're supposed to have a pistol and CCW, with the base Reaver kit you cannot build 3 reavers with that wargear (I think you might be able to get one). So if your "Gaming values" are building things WYSIWYG, you're going to be converting them anyway.
There are loads of people who enjoy GW's models but don't want to wade into the bloated mess that is 7th edition 40k. Case in point: The rules you get for 40k if you want to field Hellions. These people get discounted models to build and paint, and a small, manageable and self-contained board game to play.
The "people who love GW models/maybe smaller games but don't want to play 40k" demographic is a large and ever-growing segment of GWs customer base as 40k bloat spirals out of control.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: The rules say they're supposed to have a pistol and CCW, with the base Reaver kit you cannot build 3 reavers with that wargear (I think you might be able to get one). So if your "Gaming values" are building things WYSIWYG, you're going to be converting them anyway.
That's the second time you've said that. I put together my Reavers from the set the other day, the legs come modeled with a knife on one hip and a holstered pistol on the other hip, so they are indeed WYSIWYG out of the box.
As for the Hellions, they may be "worthless" in tabletop, but they're cool models and having them in hand has me thinking about building into a DE army for the first time since early 3rd ed. 13 points for a 5+ jump infantry ain't great, but it's not so bad I would never take em if I already had the models, there's almost certainly better options for those points if you already have a DE army, but they'd make an OK harassment/distraction unit until you get better things to replace them with. They're basically free models, I paid $46 USD shipped for my copy of GoC. Not as great a deal as the UK version, but still enough of a deal that I'm tempted to buy a second copy once it's back in stock
Haven't played the game yet, getting stuff prepped for saturday, but I'm loving the rules and all the video playthrough/reviews. All the components are good board game quality and while board gamers may hate putting together proper models, I (primarily a wargamer) absolutely love them. They may be a few years old by this point, but they're new enough that the engineering on the kits is excellent, they fit together well and have nice options on the sprue. I bitz ordered some extra arms from the DE Warriors box off ebay to cover the power weapon, so in actuality the game cost me almost $50 USD for both a self-contained board game and possibly a small base to build an army from if I decide to. I just don't get your complaints about it, quite honestly, it's just about as good as it gets from GW. My only issue is that I wish they'd included a 3x3 poster mat, but that's a pretty minor issue considering all the 3x3s I have for X-Wing and other skirmish games
Edit: it should be noted that I'm one of those disgruntled former-GW fans that got completely out of 40k because they didn't like the direction of the rules or the company, but have come back only recently because of these mini-board games and the change in the GW as a whole in the past year rekindling an old love.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/15 17:42:38
The game is tight. I have no complaints as my gang grows into an army....
Slave raids, the ork culling, gladiator pits..... My Jr Archon is having a good re-envisioning...
There is no WYSIWYG argument for this game.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
the_scotsman wrote: I think my only gripe with the rules, having played it a few times, is that they did the GW thing where they tied a totally unrelated game's rules to the rules of a different game.
You want to use these cool upgrade bits for your gangs of comorragh gang? well, you can't, because the Warhammer 40,000 rules says ONLY the Arena Champion or Heliarch gets to have cool gear.
The Arena Champion can take a power sword, and it's not included in either the Helion or Reaver kit? That's fine, our players are resourceful, maybe they have other bits, we'll show some cool conversions, and most importantly: The Arena Champion can take a power sword in the Warhammer 40,000 rules.
What? Include rules for the Reavers to take Stun Claws? Make rules for the Wych weapons, including the cool chain flails we converted a model to be holding in the GoC rulebook? Let Helions take Power Swords, or Blast Pistols, or Venom Blades?
But that doesn't exist in the 7th edition rules of this unrelated game system, we can't do that!
I love this idea that 40k is a "completely unrelated game system". Wouldn't it be more annoying if you built up your gangs, then tried to add them to a 40k army and found you couldn't without proxying because the rules let you give them all weird upgrades?
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Spoiler:
streetsamurai wrote: I'm not talking about some gakky 2-pages rules supplement in WD (they'll be some in next WD for using Harlequin in GOC BTW). I'm talking about a real advanced rulebook.
Got to love a realistic ambition. "Hey, they gave us the kind of thing we like, after years of swearing they wouldn't, but personally I'm bent out of shape because the execution is only OK instead of mindblowing".
yeah, by reading my post it's really obvious I'm bent out of shape. After all I said that the game was very good d, but could have been a classic if more effort was put into its campaign rules, which is an obvious sign that I'm fothing at the mouth.
You fan boys and white knights really need to learn to have better reading comprehension, and to stop running to the defense of GW at every small perceived slight. You would look a lot less ridiculous
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/15 17:58:00
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
The people that bought this SEEM to be those that already know 40k Dark Eldar, thus they won't surprised if their wargear options don't transfer over 1:1.
Of course. I know of 40K Dark Eldar, but I haven't played a game since 3rd edition. Not a current player of 40K, but still bought this game. Don't care if the models match up to what happens in 40K.
The real question is if these games sell to current players or to former players, not to strawman timmy.
the_scotsman wrote: The rules say they're supposed to have a pistol and CCW, with the base Reaver kit you cannot build 3 reavers with that wargear (I think you might be able to get one). So if your "Gaming values" are building things WYSIWYG, you're going to be converting them anyway.
That's the second time you've said that. I put together my Reavers from the set the other day, the legs come modeled with a knife on one hip and a holstered pistol on the other hip, so they are indeed WYSIWYG out of the box.
As for the Hellions, they may be "worthless" in tabletop, but they're cool models and having them in hand has me thinking about building into a DE army for the first time since early 3rd ed. 13 points for a 5+ jump infantry ain't great, but it's not so bad I would never take em if I already had the models...
They are bloody cool models.
I've played loads of fun games with them and I've also taken them to tournaments and got they destroyed!
My opponents all thought it was fun to play a non standard list.
Latest White Dwarf has rules for Harlequin gangs. Can't comment on whether or not these are any good, as I sadly do not have the budget to pick up the game just yet.
BrookM wrote: Latest White Dwarf has rules for Harlequin gangs. Can't comment on whether or not these are any good, as I sadly do not have the budget to pick up the game just yet.
I own both the game and the White Dwarf* in question. Sadly I have not played yet and don't know how the Harlies differ from the others.
I haven't read anything about the Harlequin rules yet, in fact there doesn't seem to be much meaningful discussion about this game anywhere. Can anyone tell me about the harlequin rules, are they good/AI controlled by a table you roll on? Do they have weapon options etc?
For what it was, I really liked it. X wing meets lite necromunda was a cool idea.
Problem is this will get just the usual respect from its creator - very little. A mini supplement maybe 2-3 times then that will be it. If the game had a good flushed out campaign system it would be a great game and youd see it played more but it will never happen
