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I like the Kabal + Cult + Coven fluffy list, but I think Kabal + Coven + Coven (PoF for objectives + DT for Venoms and Reapers) is better.

Coven + wych has been working great for me, Wyches that can stick in combat and Reavers to literally be anywhere on the table is doing wonders. DT Reapers and Raiders with some PoF Grots and Vex Mask is doing well.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Coven + wych has been working great for me, Wyches that can stick in combat and Reavers to literally be anywhere on the table is doing wonders. DT Reapers and Raiders with some PoF Grots and Vex Mask is doing well.

I was honestly considering a unit of 12 reavers or two units of 9 reavers each bare bones no gear. They'd more be for objective grabbing where possible. It's something fast, cheap-ish and durable.

I just take a big unit of 10 prophets of flesh grots on foot right now as my melee unit and as a screen for my shooting units right now.

I only really take kabal for the dissie ravagers now. I heard they were getting rid of the infantry characters boosting vehicles soon. As if archons couldn't be neutered any further.

Yeah I don't think our Ravagers are getting the CORE keyword, I guess Venoms and Raiders will, as our army is pretty reliant on transports.

I think only Infantry will get it, then things like BM's, Court, etc.. will still act the same as they do now.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I think only Infantry will get it, then things like BM's, Court, etc.. will still act the same as they do now.

Infantry, bikes and whatnot.
But generally no vehicles and transports.

Yeah but they said vehicles could be when appropriate, and we are a transport heavy army!

Anyways, our Auras doesn't work when embarked so who cares, they should fix that first.

I'm happy if our Talos and Cronos are CORE for the T buff.

I would like Reavers too, but give the Succ a bike or something.

I think they mean tank commanders and stuff.

To be fair it'll hit armies with a million boosts much harder though sadly dark eldar have no vehicle leaders and yet we must be mounted much of the time. The only units we can buff outside of ravagers are coven units. Gw really wants covens to be the only worthwhile sub faction don't they. Kabal and wych cult are getting less relevant. Next week when I game I only plan to have maybe one unit of 12 bikes.

Scourge are garbage. I fear taking hellions due to chaff denying a good charge out of ds followed by being over-costed and too fragile. Wyches while fun sounding are absolute garbage outside of melee. They might do ok with the 3+ inv. Save build in melee but thats best vs infantry. Reavers are only useful for grabbing objectives mostly. They may be fast but they're an expensive screen even bare bones. They also made void ravens far too expensive for no good reason. Covens mostly seem decent. Ravagers are nice and trueborn could be good if only they weren't cut from our army. Seriously how many kabal units do we even have and wych cult obsessions may be better now for everything you can take both on.

Lawrence ran a 'Scourge heavy' list two weeks ago on TT against Salamanders.

It was basically three Flayed Skull patrols, each with two units of five Kabalites in Venoms, a Voidraven, and a unit of five Haywire Scourge.

The list looked good in-play, and the Scourge threw out some decent mortal wounds. It didn't really change my opinion of them though, that they are too expensive for a very hit-and-miss unit.

If anyone is interested this is the battle report, with full lists:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5FCG2yyWBk

Yeah... 3 units of Scourges? lol no. thats 345pts for 15 t3 wounds. You could just take 2 Reapers and save points. Heck for 345pts I'd rather have 20 Mandrakes. Not only does Mandrakes deal about the same damage, but they are harder to kill with a -1/5++ always.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah... 3 units of Scourges? lol no. thats 345pts for 15 t3 wounds. You could just take 2 Reapers and save points. Heck for 345pts I'd rather have 20 Mandrakes. Not only does Mandrakes deal about the same damage, but they are harder to kill with a -1/5++ always.

I'd also rather have Mandrakes. Such a shame, Scourges are lovely looking models

They need some special abilities to make them better, like Fire and Fade even if deepstriking or an ability (once per battle) to go back to the Webway after firing.
That and a 5++ at least... they die to easily.

I know people prefer to be more elite - but I really think its just they should be cheaper.

Like a lot of things, they were meh before, and then got a 25% points hike "for reasons", and so... still decidedly meh to bad.

Well yeah, 15pts per model is way to expensive for a dude that in this meta is just a Fast Kabalite Warrior with a slightly better weapon.

But the idea of the Scourges in the fluff is that they are highly mobile and elite Warriors. Right no they just fall down, shoot and die. Maybe they just need to have their weapons improved to be true Glass Cannons.

Tyel wrote:
I know people prefer to be more elite - but I really think its just they should be cheaper.

Like a lot of things, they were meh before, and then got a 25% points hike "for reasons", and so... still decidedly meh to bad.

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time Scourges and such are supposed to be highly-elite models. It would be nice if that was actually represented in some way beyond them having BS4+.


As far as cost goes, though, part of the problem is that Scourges rarely ever get to make much use of their mobility. Not least because they're just too fragile to survive even the smallest amount of firepower turned their way. So 99% of the time, they're no better than IG Scions whilst being vastly more expensive.

I agree.

If marines can get endless buffs in order to "feel like marines", then it isn't too much to ask for our elite units have something to justify the label.

Just a thought but would running a huge horde of Prophets of Flesh wracks and grots and taking the secondary While We Stand, We Fight be a viable strategy?

Force the enemy to chew through dozens of T4/5/6 4++ 6+++ infantry before they can target the 4++ t5 6+++ haemonculi with the options for a relic that gives a 4+++ and a warlord trait that lets you regenerate D3 wounds.

Some guy did that and posted it on Reddit I think (on tabletop simulator). His full list was just like 90 Wracks, 15 Grots and 3 Haemonculi. The idea was to tie everything in combat while scoring and not caring about anything else.

On the Scourge thing, survivability is the problem, if they could fire two times they would be awesome, but right now you have to Deepstrike them in cover (if possible) fire and pray to kill whatever is near... and then pray again with the -1 to be hit stratagem to not die and score something.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that the whole Aeldari race need some type of way to not die that easily. Not raising T or W, but being able to stack -1 to be hit (max -2) or not caring about -1 AP... I don't know, something fluffy that makes us feel like Elves.

operkoi wrote:
Just a thought but would running a huge horde of Prophets of Flesh wracks and grots and taking the secondary While We Stand, We Fight be a viable strategy?

Force the enemy to chew through dozens of T4/5/6 4++ 6+++ infantry before they can target the 4++ t5 6+++ haemonculi with the options for a relic that gives a 4+++ and a warlord trait that lets you regenerate D3 wounds.

I'm sure it can work.

For me, it turns us into a less good version of Death Guard. I'd rather crash and burn playing like Drukhari.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-europe-and-down-under/

Check out the 3rd place eldar soup list in this article. Raiders, grotesques, covens that aren't MM/DT...and allied to CWE for...wraithlords?

Artists of flesh is definitely something to keep an eye on in an age of W2 marines IMO.

the_scotsman wrote:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-europe-and-down-under/

Check out the 3rd place eldar soup list in this article. Raiders, grotesques, covens that aren't MM/DT...and allied to CWE for...wraithlords?

Artists of flesh is definitely something to keep an eye on in an age of W2 marines IMO.

That's really interesting, thanks......the Stinger Pistol on the Haemonculus makes me grind my teeth

the_scotsman wrote:

Artists of flesh is definitely something to keep an eye on in an age of W2 marines IMO.

Giving the equivalent of Serpent Shield to Raiders/Venoms is...certainly something.

I just want Scourges to be Kabal, that will solve all their problems IMO.

the_scotsman wrote:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-europe-and-down-under/

Check out the 3rd place eldar soup list in this article. Raiders, grotesques, covens that aren't MM/DT...and allied to CWE for...wraithlords?

Artists of flesh is definitely something to keep an eye on in an age of W2 marines IMO.

Its meh, AotF is better vs multi damage but at the same time worst vs single damage, so it is 100% match up dependent. The Problem with AotF vs PoF is, you don't get teleporting Wracks or Vex Mask and Vex Mask is godly if you are running melee. IMO If you are going AotF you want lots of Raiders, Reapers, Venoms, and Wracks as it effects those more so.

I have an AotF list

Pending changes if FW changes reaper but here is my current list for it.

 vipoid wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I know people prefer to be more elite - but I really think its just they should be cheaper.

Like a lot of things, they were meh before, and then got a 25% points hike "for reasons", and so... still decidedly meh to bad.

I get where you're coming from, but at the same time Scourges and such are supposed to be highly-elite models. It would be nice if that was actually represented in some way beyond them having BS4+.


As far as cost goes, though, part of the problem is that Scourges rarely ever get to make much use of their mobility. Not least because they're just too fragile to survive even the smallest amount of firepower turned their way. So 99% of the time, they're no better than IG Scions whilst being vastly more expensive.

I pretty much refuse to take geq style infantry now as dark eldar. It sounds fun sometimes but vehicles are the way of the game still. Mounted infantry could be a thing if they didnt push the cost through the roof. Also any infantry that wants to take an action on a point would be better off being tough like wracks and surprisingly grotesques since they're infantry. I don't think an action can be taken immediately by infantry if it has to DS on the point and outside of covens, vehicles and bikes nothing will survive long enough for that either.

@amish: Suddenly I feel so stupid not using my haemonculus in raiders with dissie raiders in dark technomancers. That said that also prevents them buffing toughness of the raiders but that's probably no big and you could just leave the raider to let the raider move around.

On a sad note it's a shame dark eldar have become that boring. How does that list handle for pushing onto objectives?

You don't need the Toughness sometimes, if its all S4 and S7, well don't worry about it.

My list handles primaries just fine as I have 10 Grots, enough ObSec to matter, and I focus down flanks not trying to removing them off of all Objectives. I try to keep min and take 1 or 2 more only.

But the key is, if they leave to little on an objective i'll take it super easy, with Aethsails combine with FnF you can easly put a Raider or 2, or 3 on a far away objective, Raider + Aethersails is 22" base, there are time i had 2 Raiders move 22 and 27" to get to an objective with 5 marines on it after killing them off of it. Now i have 2 Raiders with 10 Wracks.
Dont underestimate the speed of raiders.

I don't think an army could be boring, and less so our beloved Dark Eldar. The way we play it could be boring but not the army per se.
I have a lot of fun with Venoms, Raiders, Reavers, Wyches, Incubi, Drazhar, Yvraine or the Yncarne while playing Drukhari... but yeah, Covens are popular and Covens are slow and hard to kill... and that could be boring.

Maybe i just play all the boring stuff in our army. I don't use wyches much or hellions at all. I don't use beasts at all. Scourge have become worthless which makes me feel gakky because i spent hundreds on those useless mofos for 3 full squads of scourge only for them to all suck. I haven't bought talos which i should've. I wish i had the money for dark eldar forge world.

I wish we just had our heroes, trueborn and character bikes and wargear back. That and give us some new weapon options and maybe a new super heavy vehicle, flyer or coven unit. I suppose wych cult could have super big beasts but it'd look better if covens did.

It's a matter of opinion mate. I have fun with fluffy fast lists I have fun with Talos and Cronos too... but I'm not that concerned about winning, and my friends play lists like mine so we are fine. If I'd get stomped every other day I'd change my mind.

I'm playing a 'combined arms' Alliance of Agony list (1500), because I find the playstyle enjoyable. Outside of tournaments, I don't see a point in playing an army/list that isn't fun.