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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

A 25% increase in novitiates is terrible especially given they require a tax unit I mean compare the shooty variant with guardsman or better yet the 10 man voidsman unit you can take as an agent of the imperium. 2 pts less same guns same w same T same SV. Oh and no tax and the only gain you make is the keyword and (the extra A on the charge is partially negated by the other unit having +1Ws in terrain. The fight variant might be just about playable (not good) in BR but its massively over costed in any other.

Sacresants is an over nerf their only 1w models I felt they were about balanced. Sure combined up with 300pts worth of support they might be just about useable but not as stand alones really that's a justification for increasing the cost of vahl/celestine not the Sacresants

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/14 17:03:33


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So I've been trying to think of new ideas to try for Sisters. Mixed orders seems to be dying, so you either have to play mono-Order (which, as I said earlier, is already what I do) and accept that either your shooting or melee will be less efficient, or play mixed Orders and just give up Miracle dice (which is a no-go for me; MD are part of Sisters' identity as a faction and I won't give them up, no sir!). But, I do have some other options that are compromises of a sort:
-Play Argent Shroud, and if you want more melee power, just take different units that don't rely on the Order keyword as much, namely Mortifiers, Penitent Engines, and maybe even Arco-Flagellants (I tried Arcos out and was disappointed though). Heck, even Death Cult Assassins can be mean if they reach combat; 2+ to hit with rerolls is no joke, although they will struggle mightily with higher-Toughness targets. Personally I still think it could be worth it to include Zephyrim or Sacresants in an AS list; Zephys have a lot of attacks even without the extra one from the BR conviction, and Sacresants have the Bodyguard keyword for added value (not sure I would still run the full 10 though unless I was playing BR). Celestine and Vahl are also very strong in melee of course.
-Play Valorous Heart, and go for board control rather than offensive power. With their strat you can still get one Retributor unit able to move and shoot accurately, and they can make one of the tankiest characters in the game when you combine their warlord trait with the Mantle of Ophelia. Their Order Conviction makes your units somewhat more difficult to shift, so lean into that with your list building.
-My most radical idea, but one I've been thinking about more and more recently: play an Order Minoris (custom subfaction). The combo I've been thinking about that gives some benefit to both shooting and melee is Devout Fanaticism and Guided By The Emperor's Will. Devout Fanaticism is the same as Space Marines' Born Heroes (a popular choice for their custom Chapters), and GbtEW gives us the reroll part of Argent Shroud, which helps with shooting but also helps with melee too. Having +1 to hit in melee helps mitigate the lack of the extra attacks from the BR conviction (you are getting less hits per fight phase but not as many less as you might think), and the ability to reroll a hit or wound helps mitigate the moving and shooting penalty on our Retributors. Melee-wise, the only thing I'd truly miss from BR is the Tear Them Down strat, but...eh. Zephyrim still have their +1 to wound since it's not order-locked, and you can still use War Hymn on a Repentia unit to give them a good number of attacks (auto-cast it with Fiery Oratory right after disembarking if you bring a priest along), and +1 to hit on them means they're hitting on a rerollable 3+ instead of a 4+. I'd still bring Morvenn and Celestine along because they're always great (even with Morvenn being more expensive).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~18000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~5000
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1100 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~4300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2021: 114 | Total models painted in 2022: 18 | Current main painting project: Stormcast Eternals
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 ZergSmasher wrote:
So I've been trying to think of new ideas to try for Sisters. Mixed orders seems to be dying, so you either have to play mono-Order (which, as I said earlier, is already what I do) and accept that either your shooting or melee will be less efficient, or play mixed Orders and just give up Miracle dice (which is a no-go for me; MD are part of Sisters' identity as a faction and I won't give them up, no sir!). But, I do have some other options that are compromises of a sort:
-Play Argent Shroud, and if you want more melee power, just take different units that don't rely on the Order keyword as much, namely Mortifiers, Penitent Engines, and maybe even Arco-Flagellants (I tried Arcos out and was disappointed though). Heck, even Death Cult Assassins can be mean if they reach combat; 2+ to hit with rerolls is no joke, although they will struggle mightily with higher-Toughness targets. Personally I still think it could be worth it to include Zephyrim or Sacresants in an AS list; Zephys have a lot of attacks even without the extra one from the BR conviction, and Sacresants have the Bodyguard keyword for added value (not sure I would still run the full 10 though unless I was playing BR). Celestine and Vahl are also very strong in melee of course.
-Play Valorous Heart, and go for board control rather than offensive power. With their strat you can still get one Retributor unit able to move and shoot accurately, and they can make one of the tankiest characters in the game when you combine their warlord trait with the Mantle of Ophelia. Their Order Conviction makes your units somewhat more difficult to shift, so lean into that with your list building.
-My most radical idea, but one I've been thinking about more and more recently: play an Order Minoris (custom subfaction). The combo I've been thinking about that gives some benefit to both shooting and melee is Devout Fanaticism and Guided By The Emperor's Will. Devout Fanaticism is the same as Space Marines' Born Heroes (a popular choice for their custom Chapters), and GbtEW gives us the reroll part of Argent Shroud, which helps with shooting but also helps with melee too. Having +1 to hit in melee helps mitigate the lack of the extra attacks from the BR conviction (you are getting less hits per fight phase but not as many less as you might think), and the ability to reroll a hit or wound helps mitigate the moving and shooting penalty on our Retributors. Melee-wise, the only thing I'd truly miss from BR is the Tear Them Down strat, but...eh. Zephyrim still have their +1 to wound since it's not order-locked, and you can still use War Hymn on a Repentia unit to give them a good number of attacks (auto-cast it with Fiery Oratory right after disembarking if you bring a priest along), and +1 to hit on them means they're hitting on a rerollable 3+ instead of a 4+. I'd still bring Morvenn and Celestine along because they're always great (even with Morvenn being more expensive).


I've had the same lines of thought but ran into a few problems:

The problem with the AR setup is ideally you'd want mortifiers and pengines because they synergize very well with AR's run and gun playstyle, EXCEPT Pengines, Mortifiers, AND Retributors are all heavy support so you pretty much have to run a Spearhead to bring everything you need. Dropping retributors for any reason in AR is a big no-no. This cuts out the one benefit of not mixing factions, which is the extra 3 CP. Arcos aren't a bad pick either, especially if you're REALLY loading up on melta.

That said, in a normal battalion you do still have room for up to 4 characters and Celestine, Morvenn, and Stern make up a very effective melee contingent,especially if you have at least 5 sacresancts giving them bodyguard.

I personally have never thought Zephyrim were good (despite their representation on top tables, my anecdotal experience is that they hit things, do nothing, and then die) but Sacresancts will always have a place so long as you have at least 1 melee character.

The 2 big flaws with VH are 1. They relied on Sacresancts even more than bloody rose did because of how they synergized with the Conviction, and 2. Battle Sisters are extremely mediocre.

Your last option might have legs, but it also might just end up being a 'worst of both worlds' situation since the GOOD part of argent shroud is the remain stationary and +1 to hit is almost always worse than +1 attack, even ignoring the extra AP.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

Played my first game of 9th this weekend. Got wrecked by Custodes. Trajan ate a Canoness and Vahl and I think he only took 2 wounds. I think I did fail about 85% of the 4++'s tho. It was nice to knock the rust off.

 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

Played my first game of 9th this weekend too. 1k points in an escalation league, I was up against Crusher Stampede Nids and, worst of all, I was borked in melee because I brought OOML Repentia, mace Sacresants and a Blessed Blade Canoness, so all of them were suffering mightily from the -1 damage on MCs. I did end up winning because I focused on the objectives and whittled down the Swarmlord and Tyranid Warriors on Turn 2. My Canoness managed to solo a Haruspex too without taking any damage in return, which was incredible (and unlikely). She was armed with Blessed Blade and Martyr's Vengeance (took off 9 wounds with the relic inferno pistol alone, it's no joke when you can sub in Miracle Dice for the damage roll) and had the Word of the Emperor blessing which helped immensely. Poor Sacresants got wiped out by shooting the Swarmlord with their bolt pistols and then he rolled a 6, killing the last 3 with mortal wounds. All-in-all, a very fun and successful first game for my Sororitas though.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Played my first game of 9th this weekend too. 1k points in an escalation league, I was up against Crusher Stampede Nids and, worst of all, I was borked in melee because I brought OOML Repentia, mace Sacresants and a Blessed Blade Canoness, so all of them were suffering mightily from the -1 damage on MCs. I did end up winning because I focused on the objectives and whittled down the Swarmlord and Tyranid Warriors on Turn 2. My Canoness managed to solo a Haruspex too without taking any damage in return, which was incredible (and unlikely). She was armed with Blessed Blade and Martyr's Vengeance (took off 9 wounds with the relic inferno pistol alone, it's no joke when you can sub in Miracle Dice for the damage roll) and had the Word of the Emperor blessing which helped immensely. Poor Sacresants got wiped out by shooting the Swarmlord with their bolt pistols and then he rolled a 6, killing the last 3 with mortal wounds. All-in-all, a very fun and successful first game for my Sororitas though.


Cool that you won but the words 'OOML' and "Repentia" that close together in a sentence like that made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

Ehh I get that it's not the ideal way to play but I have an OOML army, I love Repentia and at 1k I don't have the points to take multiple detachments.

Honestly, the Repentia were fine in any case, they were 1 of 3 units still on the board at the end.

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 deviantduck wrote:
Played my first game of 9th this weekend. Got wrecked by Custodes. Trajan ate a Canoness and Vahl and I think he only took 2 wounds. I think I did fail about 85% of the 4++'s tho. It was nice to knock the rust off.

Trajann is an absolute monster in the just-released Custodes book; I'm honestly not surprised he was able to dumptruck the Canoness. That sounds like tough luck with Vahl, though. I've gotten pretty unlucky with Vahl a time or two myself; she's plenty tanky until she just can't make a damn 4++.

In my most recent outing of 3 games, Celestine went down in each game. In 2 of the 3, she rolled a 1 for getting back up. The first time it happened I was irritated; when it happened again a mere 2 games later I was furious that my luck could be that horrible. But, ultimately sometimes luck can decide games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 04:07:42


My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~18000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~5000
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1100 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~4300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2021: 114 | Total models painted in 2022: 18 | Current main painting project: Stormcast Eternals
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Most of the list i play usually run about 6 to 7 immolators.....

Yea. i tend to rip half an armies worth of units with just immolators

with the -pts in the new chapter approved.... i can make an immolator doomstack of bout 8 multi melta immolators in a 2k points list easy.

my highest total i got for melta shots is 56...... seeing if i can tweak the list a bit

FYI, since immolators are dedicated transport, rule of 3 doesn't apply to them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 05:27:47


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

mchammadad wrote:
Most of the list i play usually run about 6 to 7 immolators.....

Yea. i tend to rip half an armies worth of units with just immolators

with the -pts in the new chapter approved.... i can make an immolator doomstack of bout 8 multi melta immolators in a 2k points list easy.

my highest total i got for melta shots is 56...... seeing if i can tweak the list a bit

FYI, since immolators are dedicated transport, rule of 3 doesn't apply to them

I assume Argent Shroud for the shooting benefits, yes? Or Valorous Heart to reduce AP1/2? I definitely admit that with the points drop, they are looking slightly better, especially if you are running a lot of them as you seem to be.

Honestly my wallet cringes at the thought of buying all those Immolators though.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 4/26/22, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~18000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~5000
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1100 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~4300
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2021: 114 | Total models painted in 2022: 18 | Current main painting project: Stormcast Eternals
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 ZergSmasher wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Played my first game of 9th this weekend. Got wrecked by Custodes. Trajan ate a Canoness and Vahl and I think he only took 2 wounds. I think I did fail about 85% of the 4++'s tho. It was nice to knock the rust off.

Trajann is an absolute monster in the just-released Custodes book; I'm honestly not surprised he was able to dumptruck the Canoness. That sounds like tough luck with Vahl, though. I've gotten pretty unlucky with Vahl a time or two myself; she's plenty tanky until she just can't make a damn 4++.

In my most recent outing of 3 games, Celestine went down in each game. In 2 of the 3, she rolled a 1 for getting back up. The first time it happened I was irritated; when it happened again a mere 2 games later I was furious that my luck could be that horrible. But, ultimately sometimes luck can decide games.
He kept popping transhuman and the turning off rerolls strat. Only 50% chance to hit with no rerolls really stings. His first round of attacks against MV I failed 4 of 5 4++.
I also fired 14 melta shots that game for a total of 3 wounds.

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




mchammadad wrote:
Most of the list i play usually run about 6 to 7 immolators.....

Yea. i tend to rip half an armies worth of units with just immolators

with the -pts in the new chapter approved.... i can make an immolator doomstack of bout 8 multi melta immolators in a 2k points list easy.

my highest total i got for melta shots is 56...... seeing if i can tweak the list a bit

FYI, since immolators are dedicated transport, rule of 3 doesn't apply to them




The problem with Immolators is that they're really bad unless your opponent is ALSO bringing a mech heavy list.

Immo spam has a strong matchup into armies like Ork buggy spam and Ironhands (and I bet would see quite a bit of success vs crusher stampede depending on the build) but gets absolutely dumped on by things like Dark Eldar and Black Templar and loses the mirror match hard.

They've seen some success as a dedicated counter-meta pick as a result but blind going into a big tournament with immospam is a dangerous prospect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 deviantduck wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Played my first game of 9th this weekend. Got wrecked by Custodes. Trajan ate a Canoness and Vahl and I think he only took 2 wounds. I think I did fail about 85% of the 4++'s tho. It was nice to knock the rust off.

Trajann is an absolute monster in the just-released Custodes book; I'm honestly not surprised he was able to dumptruck the Canoness. That sounds like tough luck with Vahl, though. I've gotten pretty unlucky with Vahl a time or two myself; she's plenty tanky until she just can't make a damn 4++.

In my most recent outing of 3 games, Celestine went down in each game. In 2 of the 3, she rolled a 1 for getting back up. The first time it happened I was irritated; when it happened again a mere 2 games later I was furious that my luck could be that horrible. But, ultimately sometimes luck can decide games.
He kept popping transhuman and the turning off rerolls strat. Only 50% chance to hit with no rerolls really stings. His first round of attacks against MV I failed 4 of 5 4++.
I also fired 14 melta shots that game for a total of 3 wounds.


You mean wounding, right? Because I don't see anything on Trajann's Datasheet that would give him -2 to hit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/19 18:47:06


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

Yes, wounding. My bad.

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Going over the points changes and the subfaction changes again...the future looks bleak.

Monofaction lists tended to rely HEAVILY on the 3 units that took the hardest nerfs.

AS, VH, and BR relied heavily on Vahl.

OoML, BR, and VH relied heavily on sacresancts.

Every Sister's list relied heavily on Armorium Cherubs.

With all the changes, a typical Mono-BR list went up 65-75pts a typical mono VH list went up 95, a typical mono-AS list went up 55pts and a typical Mono-OoML list went up between 30-50pts.

We receive nothing in compensation for either the subfaction change or the point hikes.

So, in reality our best hope between now and the next CA is the BR supplement.

What we've seen so far from the BR supplement is 1 Warlord Trait, 1 Relic, and 2 stratagems.

They've said we're getting an Army of Renown, so that just leaves (based on the OoML supplement) 2 Warlord Traits, 3 Relics, and 6 stratagems.

The things they've shown off so far are largely useless. The shoot on death strat is mediocre because it's 2CP for rets but it's not nothing so whatever. The relic is awful, the warlord trait is worse, the Paragon strat requires you bring paragons.

The Relics and Warlord Traits BR already have access to are good enough that they'd REALLY have to push the supplement stuff enough to make them worthwhile picks. Let alone a significant advantage to the army. We absolutely do not need more 'Jump through 8 hoops and do a standing backflip with concrete shoes to get 1 miracle die' crap so hopefully what we've seen is the last of that. IF there is something that lets us wound our OWN units to gain some sort of a buff, that miracle dice relic will be very interesting. If not it remains useless.

So it's very doubtful that we'll see much in the way of a boost from WT or Relics. So looking to stratagems, what could we see there?

Well, looking at the OoML supplement we see:
A stratagem that gives a mediocre buff against one specific army. Not gonna cut it.
A stratagem that gives a really stupid bonus in a really convoluted way and kills off our own models. Bad.
A stratagem that makes you jump through hoops to get a bonus you can't really benefit from. The equivalent for BR would be 'one additional AP on bolter weapons if you shoot at a target that was shot at by 6 or more units in the same shooting phase.' Bad.
The strat we've already seen for Paragons (that is terrible compared to the OoML one.)
A strat for the useless tanks no one cares about.
An extremely situational strat everyone will look at as the reason to use the supplement but that will underwhelm.
The strat we've already seen, which is a bad clone of the OoML one.
And a strat that lets us take a second bad warlord trait.

So the strats probably aren't going to offer much for us either. Our best hope is that the Army of Renown is closer to the Crusher Stampede than the mechanicus defense force.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/20 20:23:15


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

I think you missed the mission changes that prevent are 2 man units scoring secondary's making that even worse
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

U02dah4 wrote:
I think you missed the mission changes that prevent are 2 man units scoring secondary's making that even worse

Isn't it more that it makes it so that they can't reliably pull of Octarius Data? They can still do other secondaries.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

It makes it so they almost always fail at octarious data 1/6 chance of success

They also can't do engage on all fronts unless you atleast buy an extra model which doubles there power level and makes them more costly to reserve

Yes they can score the ones you don't take

Unless my opponent has an obvious kill mission those two are current auto includes. They are still doable but a shift from 2 man to 6 comes with a significant loss in efficiency

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/01/21 01:50:26


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




U02dah4 wrote:
I think you missed the mission changes that prevent are 2 man units scoring secondary's making that even worse

I never did that, so it wasn't something I thought about tbh.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 16:12:40


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 deviantduck wrote:
Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?


You actually can't put it on TOP of an objective. Also, because of the way obscuring works, it's actually better to have it a little ways in front of an objective so your squad can cap the objective while being BEHIND its footprint.

Also, the balance slate coming in February and the Bloody Rose supplement might, MIGHT, MAYBE have some compensation for us in this regard.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?


You actually can't put it on TOP of an objective. Also, because of the way obscuring works, it's actually better to have it a little ways in front of an objective so your squad can cap the objective while being BEHIND its footprint.

Also, the balance slate coming in February and the Bloody Rose supplement might, MIGHT, MAYBE have some compensation for us in this regard.
I thought you just couldn't cover the objective entirely? Put the left wall across the objective, for instance.

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?


You actually can't put it on TOP of an objective. Also, because of the way obscuring works, it's actually better to have it a little ways in front of an objective so your squad can cap the objective while being BEHIND its footprint.

Also, the balance slate coming in February and the Bloody Rose supplement might, MIGHT, MAYBE have some compensation for us in this regard.
I thought you just couldn't cover the objective entirely? Put the left wall across the objective, for instance.


I actually can't find the rule at the moment, last I knew the footprint of the model couldn't touch the objective at all. Could be wrong though.


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?


You actually can't put it on TOP of an objective. Also, because of the way obscuring works, it's actually better to have it a little ways in front of an objective so your squad can cap the objective while being BEHIND its footprint.

Also, the balance slate coming in February and the Bloody Rose supplement might, MIGHT, MAYBE have some compensation for us in this regard.
I thought you just couldn't cover the objective entirely? Put the left wall across the objective, for instance.


I actually can't find the rule at the moment, last I knew the footprint of the model couldn't touch the objective at all. Could be wrong though.

I keep confusing the objectives with the giant mats everyone uses. The 40mm center can't be in the terrain or the footprint, but the 3" radius near it can. so you can sit in footprint of the terrain and cap it.

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?


You actually can't put it on TOP of an objective. Also, because of the way obscuring works, it's actually better to have it a little ways in front of an objective so your squad can cap the objective while being BEHIND its footprint.

Also, the balance slate coming in February and the Bloody Rose supplement might, MIGHT, MAYBE have some compensation for us in this regard.
I thought you just couldn't cover the objective entirely? Put the left wall across the objective, for instance.


I actually can't find the rule at the moment, last I knew the footprint of the model couldn't touch the objective at all. Could be wrong though.

I keep confusing the objectives with the giant mats everyone uses. The 40mm center can't be in the terrain or the footprint, but the 3" radius near it can. so you can sit in footprint of the terrain and cap it.


Exactly! Just looking at the battle sanctum I tried putting it on a table so that the objective was just outside the 'front' of the cathedral part, which ended up being a mistake. Because you lose obscuring being inside it, it's actually better to put it in front of the objective so you can cap it WITHOUT standing inside the footprint. You lose cover but you're ACTUALLY outside of LoS then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 21:28:54


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

Spoiler:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Well thank goodness I'm back in the saddle just in time for sisters to be mediocre again.


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It also looks like the Battle Sanctum is able to be played now, but I just read the 9th rules for it, and it doesn't seem worthwhile. I guess if you park it on an objective a squad of BSS can hold one to generate a MD without wasting units.

So that's worth it?


You actually can't put it on TOP of an objective. Also, because of the way obscuring works, it's actually better to have it a little ways in front of an objective so your squad can cap the objective while being BEHIND its footprint.

Also, the balance slate coming in February and the Bloody Rose supplement might, MIGHT, MAYBE have some compensation for us in this regard.
I thought you just couldn't cover the objective entirely? Put the left wall across the objective, for instance.


I actually can't find the rule at the moment, last I knew the footprint of the model couldn't touch the objective at all. Could be wrong though.

I keep confusing the objectives with the giant mats everyone uses. The 40mm center can't be in the terrain or the footprint, but the 3" radius near it can. so you can sit in footprint of the terrain and cap it.


Exactly! Just looking at the battle sanctum I tried putting it on a table so that the objective was just outside the 'front' of the cathedral part, which ended up being a mistake. Because you lose obscuring being inside it, it's actually better to put it in front of the objective so you can cap it WITHOUT standing inside the footprint. You lose cover but you're ACTUALLY outside of LoS then.
In my vast experience with 9th, all 1.5 games, I find that part so weird. You're safer hiding behind and outside of ruins (and the imaginary footprint) than standing in ruins...assuming you don't want/care to shoot back.

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Even more nerfs that weren't previously mention Dominions also go up 2ppm for NO fething REASON.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

ERJAK wrote:
Even more nerfs that weren't previously mention Dominions also go up 2ppm for NO fething REASON.
Yay. So... leave Morvenn on the sprue and start on some GSC instead?

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 deviantduck wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
Even more nerfs that weren't previously mention Dominions also go up 2ppm for NO fething REASON.
Yay. So... leave Morvenn on the sprue and start on some GSC instead?


As of right now, with Drukhari seeing no significant changes, Custodes seeing release day buffs, GSC coming out strong and Crusher Stampede getting a slap on the wrist Sisters(as well as several other Low Tier 1, high tier 2 armies, we're absolutely not the only ones who got hit here. We just got hit the HARDEST.) have been smacked down at least a full tier in effectiveness. Every single competitive build just went up 100+pts, even if they didn't soup and currently we have nothing to pivot to.

The Bloody Rose Supplement looks, so far, like it will be the same level of boon as the OoML one was. Which is to say, very little. If the things they haven't shown are much stronger than the strats/relics we've seen, it could be possible to regain some of that lost ground for BR players. The wildcard is the Army of Renown. Crusher Stampede made Tyranids instantly tier 1, but none of the other AoRs have had any competitive impact.

The other thing that could potentially really help is the February balance patch. If they redo the rules for Castigators, Exorcists, and Paragons, that PLUS the point drops might give us something we can pivot to. If Exorcists got to the point where the datasheet didn't essentially read "pay 170pts, lose 8CP" or if the Castigator got a gun that did damage, that would be enough to take the burden of all of our shooting off of Retributors AND give Bloody rose lists a reasonable method of doing damage from afar.


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Looking at the changes I feel slightly more inclined towards a brigade. Now I don't need a subfaction. It would save a couple of CP
   
Made in ca
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

Dominions going up a couple points doesn't make sense to me, if they needed toning down then Blessed Bolts is the issue, not Dominions. There's no reason for them to be 5pts more than a Battle Sister for the same profile, a scout move and more access to special weapons. This change was nonsense IMHO.

No mixed subfactions is gonna suck on the competitive end but IMHO it's better for the game as a whole if you can't just plug your subfaction's weaknesses with another subfaction. And those who aren't playing top-tier competitive lists probably won't even notice.

   
 
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