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Quick one for you all!

A rhino has two fire points from the top hatch. Which part of the model is the hatch? Is it the two doors at the front that the pintle storm bolter mounts to, or is it the big double doors that cover the space where the turret would be on a razorback?

Thanks!

The big double doors.
BTW,just FYI it is 1 fire point not 2,but 2 models can use it.

Well, people will probably argue this up and down, but the intention is the big double doors near the back. That is how it has always been played, and that is how most people play it. If you try to measure range from one of those little hatches by the storm bolter, people will probably look at you funny.

However, in the current ruleset, there isn't a definitive way to prove that it must be from the large hatch. If you don't want people to think you're a jerk (aka friendly games) just go for the rear one.

Thanks!

Here is why:

From Chapter Approved 2004


When did GW say they changed the location? New rules trump old rules, I am sure. But they haven't come out with a new rule to trump this one.

Wow, potato! You are just slamming these threads down tonight!

He is right, though. For the longest time, I played it as the copulas, but somebody mentioned how razorbacks loose firepoints or something, so I changed my way.

-cgmckenzie

I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR DREDGING UP THIS POST FROM 2011.

Is there anything in the 6th edition rules that would change the number of models that can fire from a fire point? Nothing comes to mind, but if someone has a page number I'd be thankful if they would post it.

You know this is a game by GW when you need to own an obscure "Chapter Approved" article from 2004 in order to definitively answer a common question.

The individual units will detail the number and nature of their firepoints, from what I've seen.

Right. For example, my Space Wolves codex says the Rhino has one fire point (but doesn't say where it is). But where does it say that two models can shoot from a single fire point?

(I'm not saying the rule doesn't exist, I was just hoping someone could provide me a page number.)

page number alludes me (@ work) but its all covered under fire points in the BRB. It tells you the default number of shooters that can fire from a fire point, explains each model will have its own entry for how many fire points it has and if that fire point allows a different number of shooters from the default. That is IIRC.

Thanks DJGietzen !

Now for the other question; Are we still relying on the 2004 chapter approved for the location of the Rhino's fire point, or does anyone have a more modern update? Because my Space Wolves codex - which is supposedly independent of every other codex - doesn't give the location of a Rhino's fire point.

 Grugknuckle wrote:
Now for the other question; Are we still relying on the 2004 chapter approved for the location of the Rhino's fire point, or does anyone have a more modern update? Because my Space Wolves codex - which is supposedly independent of every other codex - doesn't give the location of a Rhino's fire point.

1) Please do not necro threads, Start a new one :-)

2) The SW Codex actually does give the answer. Your answer about fire points and Space Wolves Rhino's is on Page 40 of the Codex Space Wolves.

It specifically can be used by 2 models though

Space wolf codex pg40 under Firepoints
all rhinos have the same line both chaos and loyalist

I didn't know it was called "Necro-ing" the thread. I did know that this one had a nice picture in it that was helpful and I did know that you shouldn't start threads on stuff that is already out there.

But next time, I'll just link the dead thread.

The forum rules, with rule #2 being applicable here.

Cg stated in the original run of the thread a great way to handle this. The Razorback has no fire points. What is the difference between a rhino and razorback? The look of the rear roof hatch.

Bear in mind also that the Rhino rules tell you that the fire point is the top hatch, singular.

The circular points at the front of the Rhino are not always hatches. They can be assembled as a cupola hatch, as a storm bolter mount, as a hunter killer missile mount, as a dirge caster mount, as a havoc launcher mount, and possibly as other things I can't remember at the moment.

However, no matter what you mount on the circular bits at the front of a Rhino, the hatch over the main body always remains a hatch.

To be fair that Storm Bolter mount, when it does not have a Storm Bolter on it is a hatch.

 DeathReaper wrote:
To be fair that Storm Bolter mount, when it does not have a Storm Bolter on it is a hatch.

I've never taken it for a hatch. No hinges. It's just an equipment recess.

 insaniak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
To be fair that Storm Bolter mount, when it does not have a Storm Bolter on it is a hatch.

I've never taken it for a hatch. No hinges. It's just an equipment recess.

Then why is there a dude coming out of it:

You can clearly see the open hatch in this pic.

What? No, the cuploa is a hatch, and has the pintle-mount for the storm bolter, yes.

Since you mentioned the storm bolter mount rather than the cupola, I assumed you were talking about the other side, which can be used for either the hunter killer or the storm bolter.

 insaniak wrote:
What? No, the cuploa is a hatch, and has the pintle-mount for the storm bolter, yes.

Since you mentioned the storm bolter mount rather than the cupola, I assumed you were talking about the other side, which can be used for either the hunter killer or the storm bolter.

Sorry, Yes I meant the hatch the dude is traversing in the pic above.

The storm bolter can be mounted either on a pintel mount or on the same round rotating piece as the hunter killer/dirge caster/havoc launcher. And either of those openings can instead contain the flipped flat mount for the SB/HK/DC/HL, which is slightly recessed and fills the hole but does not appear to open. You can model either forward round hole to be filled with one of multiple different options, not all of which open.

But the big rectangular hatch over the troop compartment is always a hatch, and in context is clearly the "hatch" being referred to as the fire point.

I disagree, as the dude coming out of the hatch on the top of the Rhino in the pic is clearly a "Top Hatch"

IF you choose to model the cupola which can be opened it certainly is "a" hatch, but it cannot possibly be the singular top hatch referred to in the Rhino rules as being the fire point every Rhino possesses.

When I modeled my Blood Angel Rhino with the flat weapon mounts for its Storm Bolter and its Hunter Killer missile, it had no hatch at all in the front.

 DeathReaper wrote:
I disagree, as the dude coming out of the hatch on the top of the Rhino in the pic is clearly a "Top Hatch"

No, it's a hatch.

Given that the fire points are for the use of the passengers, it's a little ridiculous to claim that the top hatch that serves as the fire point is anything other than the hatch over the passenger compartment.


Play whatever word games you want, you're not going to convince most opponents that the cupola is the fire point.

 insaniak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
I disagree, as the dude coming out of the hatch on the top of the Rhino in the pic is clearly a "Top Hatch"

No, it's a hatch.

Given that the fire points are for the use of the passengers, it's a little ridiculous to claim that the top hatch that serves as the fire point is anything other than the hatch over the passenger compartment.


Play whatever word games you want, you're not going to convince most opponents that the cupola is the fire point.

I believe you are correct RAI.

RAW I see nothing that says I am incorrect.

 DeathReaper wrote:
RAW I see nothing that says I am incorrect.

Sure, for all the good that does you. RAW it could be either hatch, as it isn't defined.

But it's silly RAW that the vast majority of players will ignore.

I really do not see it as all that silly, based on the pic I posted earlier.

You don't think the two passengers might have a bit of a squeeze getting up into the cupola while the vehicle crewman is already there?