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I don't like how they got rid of the inquisitorial stormtroopers as a troop choice, because I liked the fact that you could make an inquision strike force with an inquisitor lord, a few stormtrooper squads, and maybe one or two elite or fast attack SoB units (like arco flagellants) to augment the force.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now ill have to buy more battle sisters to make up for the stormtroopers I'm losing...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 03:59:34
Need to actually see the pages for myself before I pass judgment. I can't imagine Sisters costing more then they did in the old codex. The old kitted out 10 Sisters squads in Rhinos cost about the same as a Tactical Squad in a Rhino which was ridiculous but part of it was the over costed by 15 points Rhino but still.
I expect we will see pictures and more info in the next 48 hours if they really have the WD in France. I'm playing a game thursday and hoped to use my Sisters in a last hurraw. Now I want points so I can try out the new codex!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nocturn wrote:I don't like how they got rid of the inquisitorial stormtroopers as a troop choice, because I liked the fact that you could make an inquision strike force with an inquisitor lord, a few stormtrooper squads, and maybe one or two elite or fast attack SoB units (like arco flagellants) to augment the force.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now ill have to buy more battle sisters to make up for the stormtroopers I'm losing...
I'm pretty sure the Inquisition is gone. The Church is the new theme. Rumours on that french site are listing Arbites as troops in the full codex (page 1). They also have a Redemtionist entry. I would be happy with those three as troop chioces.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 04:20:08
Avariel wrote:Need to actually see the pages for myself before I pass judgment. I can't imagine Sisters costing more then they did in the old codex. The old kitted out 10 Sisters squads in Rhinos cost about the same as a Tactical Squad in a Rhino which was ridiculous but part of it was the over costed by 15 points Rhino but still.
50 point Rhinos are not over costed at all. In 4th they were, sure.
If anything, imperial vehicles are under costed under the 5th ed. vehicle rules.
Ayn Rand "We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality"
I'm pretty sure these rumors are false, not cause that sisters are 12 points but if these rumors are true can you actually believe that saint celestine is 120 points and the rest of the characters are less then 100 points?
Necrosis wrote:I'm pretty sure these rumors are false, not cause that sisters are 12 points but if these rumors are true can you actually believe that saint celestine is 120 points and the rest of the characters are less then 100 points?
I agree. It wouldn't really make sense for Celestine to be only 120 points and have standard Sisters even MORE expensive.
Four scholars at Oxford were making their way down the street, and happened to see a group of ladies of the evening. “What’s this?” said the first. “A jam of tarts?” “Nay,” said the second, “an essay of Trollope’s.” “Rather, a flourish of strumpets,” advanced the third. “No, gentlemen,” concluded the last. “Here we have an anthology of pros.”
I sure hope this is false, the information doesn't seem very structured or very in depth. Kind of like someone who doesn't play sisters heard it from their friend and might have said what he thinks is expensive or cheap without actual experience with the old army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 05:25:12
- Removed by insaniak. This sort of nonsense is not necessary or constructive. -
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 06:40:25
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
Initial rumors were Saint Celestine would cost the same as a Grand Master. I find it hard to believe she would cost 120 points.
Boosting the Battle Sisters to 12 points a pop hurts. I too was hoping a point reduction cost or stay the same. There's no transparency between the players and GW management. Cruddace is now on my top least favorite codex writer.
Sersi wrote:He left out that according to the source Seraphim can only double tap with bolt pistols, not hand flamers or inferno pistols.
Cheer up though guys... remember for 12 pts a sister you get grenades, a 6+ invulnerable save and a pistol!
Oh and no free weapon upgrades for you. Genius!
If inferno pistols were supposed to both cost more than a power fist, and only be able to be fired once, AT THE SAME TIME that would be ridiculous. Either one of those rumors completely trashes the unit by itself.
ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau +From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
ph34r wrote:If inferno pistols were supposed to both cost more than a power fist, and only be able to be fired once, AT THE SAME TIME that would be ridiculous. Either one of those rumors completely trashes the unit by itself.
Oh don't I know it. We'll know soon enough I suppose. But did anyone REALLY expect points costs to save this thing?
Now...if you'll excuse me I have to get to work on my Blood Angels...er....Sisters of Blood order.
Hey Sanguinius is just some blonde chick anyway, so its fluffy!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 14:09:23
I don't think the infernus pistols will cost that much, they may cost that much for a pair. Since they cost 10 in the Blood angels codex, I can see 25 for a twin-linked or double tapping pair.
Sisters costing 12 makes sense.
Space marines used to cost 15, now they cost 16 but they got pistol, frag and krak grenades. That's 4 pts worth of equipment for one point. Plus a Rhino drop.
Sisters are getting the same equipment, losing the 5+ save against psychic powers but gaining a 6+ invulnerable. That's a trade I'd make.
"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
If you think their point costs are going to be less than guard, you're going to be disappointed.
To those who say we don't have the full picture, we kinda do. It's essentially the witchhunter's codex version of sisters of battle with all their teeth pulled out.
Everything is normalized and standardized...that it doesn't work is obvious...it hasn't been tested or worked with at all. It's just basic units broken down into their basic components. People hoping for exorcists in vehicle squadrons or extreme point differences are gong to be disappointed. Ditto for the wargear section. If you're expecting unusual or test type gear, well...it's not happening.
Basically if you want to do mech melta, pick up the grey knights codex and make a henchman army.
Can I say I told you so now? Hey, all those guys that said wait for the 2nd part: I TOLD YOU SO!
Oh, and this:
I can't possibly see how large sister squads would work. Unlike space marines or IG blolb squads, they can be sweeping advanced. It's the necron problem all over again except they're toughness 3 instead of 4.
For rhino builds, you'll drive up, disembark, shoot once, then die horribly. None of their units can hold up in hth to anything anymore. At least in the Whunter's codex it took a while to die. Now...you'll lose combat by a bunch, fail your leadership, then get sweeping advanced. On top, the army is short ranged, so you have no choice but to get close...but unlike guard they don't put out enough firepower.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 06:20:08
"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.
The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
Celtic Strike wrote:Space marines used to cost 15, now they cost 16 but they got pistol, frag and krak grenades. That's 4 pts worth of equipment for one point. Plus a Rhino drop.
Sisters are getting the same equipment, losing the 5+ save against psychic powers but gaining a 6+ invulnerable. That's a trade I'd make.
It's equipment the Sisters don't want. The only time you'd ever use a bolt pistol or a frag grenade is if you're charging someone, which means sacrificing BS4, S4, always hits first attacks for WS3, S3, I3 attacks.
And you forgot the trade for the new, one trick pony Acts of Faith.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
Sisters are getting the same equipment, losing the 5+ save against psychic powers but gaining a 6+ invulnerable. That's a trade I'd make.
Trading the old 3++ or even 2++ trade for a 6++ save? Yikes! I hope you don't gamble regularly.
IMO, I couldn't care less about Inferus Pistols. Sisters of Battle is dominantly a close range shooting army. As long as Flamers and Meltaguns haven't gone up in points costs (and Dominion Meltaguns cost like the rest), I'm content.
Thanks sabrx I hope you don't try to keep friends regularly.
If anyone thought that the old Faith system was staying I don't know what to tell them. Maybe give them pills or something.
I think we all knew that it was going away. A few of us are actually pleasantly surprised that its not going away completely. I was afraid of losing them all forever but I'm glad GW kept them in some way. I think the squad based Acts of Faith make sense in the GW design philosophy and goes in line with the Grey Knights squad physic powers. Its also much less book keeping and explaining to your opponent as most of them have no idea and call BS on acts of faith.
This is a system everyone will be more familiar with/ less annoying to be around.
The Acts of Faith WERE ALWAYS GOING TO CHANGE!
They're giving all the squads a 6+ save as a way to make up for getting rid of the hard to get off in a clutch Invulnerable save and trying to at least stop some fan boys from complaining. (That will never happen, its all we can do)
Plus making it an actual Infernus pistol will automatically up the strength of our jump infantry as its now AP1 instead of AP2 (For no reason) In my mind they have always been for close range fire support rather than for assaulting, hence the hit and run - which they're keeping. I've been using them for their pistols ever since I started playing them. Also, if the rumors are to be believed, they're dropping drastically in points. Possibly 18 or so. Thats a big boon. Upping the cost of their pistol, giving them twin-linked or double tap and making them AP1 is okay. Dependant on the new cost of course.
Am I happy that this isn't a Full and real codex. Of course not. I have 2000 pts of the girls that I'm going to have to tweak. But they weren't in need of a huge update and I'm confident that we'll get an early 6th ed codex that will be fun. (I'm still sure people are going to complain anyway. People hate change. Change ALWAYS means its worse to people.)
I know trying to be a moderate voice of reason and caution on a message board isn't going to work but I'm going to keep trying.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AlexHolker wrote:
Celtic Strike wrote:Space marines used to cost 15, now they cost 16 but they got pistol, frag and krak grenades. That's 4 pts worth of equipment for one point. Plus a Rhino drop.
Sisters are getting the same equipment, losing the 5+ save against psychic powers but gaining a 6+ invulnerable. That's a trade I'd make.
It's equipment the Sisters don't want. The only time you'd ever use a bolt pistol or a frag grenade is if you're charging someone, which means sacrificing BS4, S4, always hits first attacks for WS3, S3, I3 attacks.
And you forgot the trade for the new, one trick pony Acts of Faith.
True, but its equipment EVERYONE has been getting. Ever since 5th came out, imperial forces have been given grenades as standard. Did people bitch when Wolves and Blood angels got grenades? (True they are more capable in assault than the girls) But It gives the girls a little bit more options against vehicles if our meltas fail for some reason. Its better to have them than not. Having frag grenades doesn't force people to charge. I don't think it'll ever be a strategy I'll employ regularly but at least its there and it does bring them in line with 5th. Everyone has those grenades and most have a pistol now. I'd be shocked if they didn't get them. I'm a little bit surprised the cost went up but I can see the logic behind it.
I also don't think anyone said that they were going to be cheaper than Guard. Anyone who did is clearly delusional and doesn't know how things work. They have better stats and equipment than a guardsman, how would they be cheaper? Disregard them completely. Also, we were never going to get Exorists in squadrons. That's a dream as well. That was a gift GW gave to guard as a way of saying; "Hey you know all those tanks that you're probably NOT going to use anymore because we made other choices way more competitive? Please take a tonne of them!1!11!"
Oh, and if you want to do pure mech melta pick up Guard veterans. They do it the best and probably always will.
Yes Scuddman, if you live to say 'I told you so' to misinformed/delusional people on Internet message boards YE HAVE SUCCEEDED!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/08/24 08:20:01
"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
If people think back to when white dwarf actually had rules every month it brings us some hope. They would release a placeholder codex/army book usually 6-12months in advance of the actual release. Mainly to get a last shot of sales, or if you arent cynical to get people back into the race/army.
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
First off I apologize for the crude statement, but I'm a competitive gamer. Diluting invulnerable saves to a 6++ save for everyone doesn't do much when it's needed the most. I want to roll the dice, knowing on average a squad will survive. I don't want to be praying to the dice gods throughout the entire game, hoping I'll miraculous make a bucket load of 6++ saves against a charging FNP Terminators with 3++ or GK armed with notching but Force Weapons. Crusaders will most likely be expensive and lack of stubborn (IC don't last long when they get singled out) makes them a liability.
In light of the newer codices, there was nothing OP about the old faith system.
Also, Infernus Pistols are usually preludes to assault due to the 6". The new SoB got hit hard in assault.
In other news, WallWeasels at Warseer noticed a recent post from pathtyphon at BoK:
If Special Characters are really below 120 pts for all their capacities.... that's one more clue about the fact that GW want every army to be lead by one or two of them... I am a little disapointed about that, as I don't like the idea that Jacobus leads every single one force of Battle Sisters in the Imperium -_-
I am not very pleased about the basic cost annunced for most of the sisters units. Not that I really expected big changes about that... but well, you never know.
I am curious to see how SoB players are going to make all this work.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/24 08:21:26
Thank you Sabrx and I apologize for drinking while using a message board.
I never meant to imply that the old faith system was OP but many people couldn't understand it and it was a huge pain to have to explain every game. Plus we only ever used two of the faith abilities anyway so it doesn't matter that much.
Sisters did get hit for combat but they were never meant to be there anyway, its why (In my opinion) that they dropped in points so much. GW saw that they weren't good in combat and made them cheaper to compensate for the fact that all their good weapons are close range. The hit and run won't be as effective with the Initiative drop but it didn't really make any sense that only that one squad had I4 when every other base unit was I3.
At 12 points per and 10 for a superior, possibly 5 points for a melta (Maybe get two or get one and a flamer - for 10) and a 35pt Rhino. That's around 180pts for 10, leadership 9, Bolters, 2 melta guns (Or melta heavy flamer) with a re-rollable 6+ invulnerable save and the chance to always regroup. Not too bad. It's about what, 210? For 10 Marines with 1 flamer and a Rhino.
The heavy flamer (If available) or two melta gives them good damage output. (Yes we can't compete with Wolves in that respect but can anyone really? They're insane at 15pts and a free meltagun!1!)
"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
BoK has the same points I'm hearing from others. Celestians got hosed it looks like. Makes sense since they are an autotake now. GW loves to do that. Looks like my 4 HB retrebutors will see play as they are cheap. Scouting Dominions will replace my Celestian squads It looks like.
Sersi wrote:
Hey Sanguinius is just some blonde chick anyway, so its fluffy!
Ha fantastic, and death company dreads are really Penetents in disguised. Might have trouble passing Repentia off as death company but you can always try.
7500pts. 
1500pts. 
2000pts. 
11000pts.
3750 pts
1500 pts
700 pts
700 pts
