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I sold half my fiends, and just kept the 3 weirdest ones from the first edition. I haven't faced anything worth not falling back with them yet. It would be worth it if they could used against flyers IIRC that's the only type of unit that can fall back away from them.
Skarbrand can maybe prevent falling back, but can't remember about his deal vs flyers.
In AoS I find all the FW exalted greater daemons are overpriced for what they can do compared to the regular greater daemons. I have moderate hopes for a named Keeper of Secrets but don't expect one.....though Nurgle got Rotigus.
weaver9 wrote: So my Skarbrand arrives in a few days. Any advice on running him?
Obvious synergy with bloodletter hordes + crimson crown on a skullmaster... but I'm not sold on bloodletters over bezerkers.
My plan right now is to deep strike him in, and saturate the board with bezerkers in rhinos, and possibly a super heavy like a Scorpion or KLoS. Generally a waste of points but fun to use.
I got mine for Christmas '17 and he's still headless. I'll be bringing him (unfortunately in an auxiliary) to a 2500 pt "handicap" tournament in November alongside 15 AL infiltrating khorne possessed and a talisman DP. Basically he's to hoof it up the board behind a warptimed prince or the possessed to share his buffs with the DP and get the DP's rerolls of 1's.
Hopefully I can tie up enough shooters on turn 1 that he doesn't get shot off the board. I wanted to bring him in with 5x3 flesh hounds for DTW, but the tourney doesn't allow multiple detachments unless they're of the same codex (supposed to be a friendly tournament for casual players, like me). Hopefully they shoot at my land raider or heldrake instead. Lots of variables but dangit i've wanted to bring him forever and I'm finally allowed to bring his Power Level.
The 2 CP Cover save strat will be nice if I don't get first turn but I've already wasted the 1CP on the infiltration (or 2 if I'm feeling aggressive).
How he'll do against a Russ / Las Pred gunline which is the meta on a board in a shoppe with very little LoS blocking terrain? Who knows, but there will be blood.
Basically it limits the detachments you can take and you are penalized score for taking a named character or PL higher than the escalating limit, and no forge world models/datasheets. They've been pretty fun.
Handicap is probably too strong of and the wrong word. Casual is more appropriate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/04 23:40:26
Basically it limits the detachments you can take and you are penalized score for taking a named character or PL higher than the escalating limit, and no forge world models/datasheets. They've been pretty fun.
Handicap is probably too strong of and the wrong word. Casual is more appropriate.
That seems silly.
Not all named chars are created equal (and some are truly poor compared to generic HQ equivalents), and PL penalty screws over armies who's units are low point-per-PL ratios.
And forgeworld bans are just stupid given how most FW stuff are outright weaker than codex equivalents.
Its not casual, its piling on random arbitrary limitations without a reason.
UncleJetMints wrote: So with my Tzeentch demons, am I better off taking tsons cultist as allies or actually taking the rubrics and scarab terminators?
No, any legion is better than TS if all you are taking is allied cultists.
But the idea that rubrics and scarabs are non-competitive is rather accurate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/05 01:22:56
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
Time to play AoS boys, where the Exalted Keeper is actually not trash.
It was almost fun while it lasted.
...Were the Forgeworld models even REMOTELY playable before now anyways? Heck, was the Keeper of Secrets even viable in the first place?
Zarakynel was with her original point cost in the Index. Not OMG Cheese good, but good enough to be playable.
The Keeper of Secrets has been bad since the index (and arguably before then in 6th and 7th).
Basically it limits the detachments you can take and you are penalized score for taking a named character or PL higher than the escalating limit, and no forge world models/datasheets. They've been pretty fun.
Handicap is probably too strong of and the wrong word. Casual is more appropriate.
horrible, i would never go to a tournament like that
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
Basically it limits the detachments you can take and you are penalized score for taking a named character or PL higher than the escalating limit, and no forge world models/datasheets. They've been pretty fun.
Handicap is probably too strong of and the wrong word. Casual is more appropriate.
horrible, i would never go to a tournament like that
I would expect not.
I take what I can get in this hodunk city, even if it means charging into 8 battle cannons or lasguns each game. The format doesn't permit super-heavies so I don't have to worry about knights, which I'm not equipped to deal with in ITC yet, or primarchs (I'm fairly new).
But feel free to impart upon me your expert advice on dealing with Russes and Predators as a Darmon + CSM player.
Slannesh lascannon havoc or oblits are a pretty good answer if you got CSM mixed in. Your own predators work to.
Exalted flamers can be pretty good too.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
Basically it limits the detachments you can take and you are penalized score for taking a named character or PL higher than the escalating limit, and no forge world models/datasheets. They've been pretty fun.
Handicap is probably too strong of and the wrong word. Casual is more appropriate.
horrible, i would never go to a tournament like that
I would expect not.
I take what I can get in this hodunk city, even if it means charging into 8 battle cannons or lasguns each game. The format doesn't permit super-heavies so I don't have to worry about knights, which I'm not equipped to deal with in ITC yet, or primarchs (I'm fairly new).
But feel free to impart upon me your expert advice on dealing with Russes and Predators as a Darmon + CSM player.
most depend by your list, i mean if you play a demon horde (ie 90 plaguebearers) you just dont care of his leman/preddators they do almost nothing to you, btw the chaos part gives you obliterators, they are fine if you want with armored units, 6-9 with a lord for re roll 1's marked slaanesh.
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
Spearhead - Chaos Demons - Khorne
*Samus
*Uraka the Warfiend
*Skull Cannon
*Skull Cannon
*Skull Cannon
My goal was to create a list that can handle hordes but bring enough heavy hitters for tanks and knights. I went with Skull cannon on the Khorne spearhead as they have a decent armor save and can fight in CC. I use named characters for the Khorne spearhead in order to use the Nurgle DP's. Tell me what you think?
Spearhead - Chaos Demons - Khorne
*Samus
*Uraka the Warfiend
*Skull Cannon
*Skull Cannon
*Skull Cannon
My goal was to create a list that can handle hordes but bring enough heavy hitters for tanks and knights. I went with Skull cannon on the Khorne spearhead as they have a decent armor save and can fight in CC. I use named characters for the Khorne spearhead in order to use the Nurgle DP's. Tell me what you think?
You could instead have your Nurgle detachment:
Death Guard Daemon Prince
Death Guard Daemon Prince
3x Nurglings
3x Nurglings
3x Nurglings
This then means that your khorne detachment can have my favorite Khorne Daemon Prince with Skullreaver Axe. And add an extra prince to your prince list.
I'd been considering a similar multi-prince list myself, though I hadn't pushed it quite so far as having 4/5 princes as yet (but it's a temptation).
remember now FAQ wont let you anymore charge through screens or make heroic interventions as well also if you fly so be careful play so many demon princes in Ts detachment suggest dont play pink horrors or you lost any Ts advantage (+6 powers range no cumulative smite penalty), play tzaangors and keep 30 horrors for summoning when needed
a thing like this might be fine
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/05 23:41:19
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
blackmage wrote: remember now FAQ wont let you anymore charge through screens or make heroic interventions as well also if you fly so be careful play so many demon princes in Ts detachment suggest dont play pink horrors or you lost any Ts advantage (+6 powers range no cumulative smite penalty), play tzaangors and keep 30 horrors for summoning when needed
a thing like this might be fine
I have thought about bringing tzaangors but felt like the staying power of horrors sounded too good to pass up. The lost those traits to me are fine. This list isn't made to be aggessive but more focus on claiming objectives and hold then. As for the Deathguard battalion. I prefer the demons because the nurgle DPs have that damage boost with virulent touch. Plus they have ways to recover wounds using stratagems.
It was carnage. I immediately lost the Skullreaver DP and one Thousand Sons DP on T1 due to some bad screening on my part (I always underestimate Kraken genestealers and their insane maneuverability!). Skullreaver DP also took a full power 6 damage smite to the face so that didn't help. By T2 it was looking pretty bad as all my obj-holding Nurglings and half my brims were shot off the table while I wasn't doing much offensively outside of spitting out some infernal gateways and other mortal wounds across some dakkafexes and devilgants. He was ahead in ITC points by quite a bit and I wasn't able to kill a single unit. Then end of T2 and throughout T3:
- 2 bloodletter bombs make their charges
- Right before death, Ahriman death hexes a flyrant allowing the bloodletters to finish him
- the DP smites the other flyrant for 6 damage, death hexes him, then finishes him in CC - a full health carnifex charges the LoC doing 1 damage and then gets one-shot on the back swing
- the LoC then charges another carnifex and one-shots it
- third carnifex eventually dies from repeated smites, infernal gates, infernal gaze, bolts of change, etc.
- I roll 1s on both daemonic icons and revive an incredible 11 bloodletters
- LoC/remaining bloodletters tie up the rest of his dakkafexes/devilgants in combat
- By end of T3 there are 4 dead carnifexes, 2 dead flyrants, 20x dead genstealers and a bunch of dead gants
- Opponent concedes start of T4 as I'm nearly caught up on points and he has nothing left to score with while I have a full health DP, a near full health LoC, ~20 bloodletters and a few pinks and brims left on the table
Things I learned:
- Need beefier screens than brimstones
- Need tighter screens for DPs against Kraken genestealers
- Nurglings are incredible
- LoC with 3++ and infernal gate is still extremely annoying and hard to deal with
- LoC + Ahriman + 3 more psykers is a crazy combo and allowed me to completely own the psychic phase; opponent only managed to cast a single spell all game
- Icons are amazing when they work, not reliable but when it happens its extremely swingy, and you will have them when you take bloodletters anyway
- Double death hex + double bloodletters is awesome
I'm considering swapping out the 4 x 10 brims for more nurglings but overall I am surprisingly impressed with how this list performed and with what initially seemed like a pretty bad matchup for daemons. I think the Thousand Sons supreme command + Lord of Change really took my psychic phase over the top and made the list work.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/10/08 01:54:10
@barboggo - that’s an incredible comeback and an outstanding bloodbath. TSons SC is really looking strong right now. (Would anyone consider using the Elite slot? Maybe adding a Tzaangor shaman?)
What are peoples thoughts on the daemonic heavy support options?
Skull Cannon vs Burning Chariot being the main two I'm considering.
Skull Cannon has the range advantage, but the Chariot seems to have more versatility, as well as the ability to add a chunk of melee damage with its 9 attacks.
What are peoples thoughts on the daemonic heavy support options?
That they're all **** and not worth considering?
What about the Fateskimmer? Not heavy I know, but as a HQ choice
seeing as the anti tank units now have a big target if you bring the chariot it's better just to bring a foot herald or disk herald and hide behind troops
What are peoples thoughts on the daemonic heavy support options?
That they're all **** and not worth considering?
What about the Fateskimmer? Not heavy I know, but as a HQ choice
seeing as the anti tank units now have a big target if you bring the chariot it's better just to bring a foot herald or disk herald and hide behind troops
Well I mean, with nurgling infiltrators and/or some screamers or similar on the table, the fluxmaster is still an untargetable character against anti-tank. Exactly as protected as the foot or disk herald, except that it can also handle being in combat instead of just being a smite bot.
lindsay40k wrote: @barboggo - that’s an incredible comeback and an outstanding bloodbath. TSons SC is really looking strong right now. (Would anyone consider using the Elite slot? Maybe adding a Tzaangor shaman?)
How do you mean ‘double Death Hex’?
Double death hex as in Ahriman has it and one of the Thousand Sons DPs has it. My opponent was very balled up in the center of the map since we were playing Crucible of Champions with spearhead assault deployment. That's the one with the center objective, so we knew it was going to be extremely bloody since both of us had close-range, horde-y, melee armies and we both took Recon, Butcher's Bill, and The Reaper as our ITC secondaries.
T2 I dropped two bloodletter bombs on my opponent's left and right flanks which forced him to split up his termagant screens and flyrants to deal with them. Two psykers with death hex allowed me to make it very, very dangerous for those flyrants to support his gants because as soon as he gets within death hex range the bloodletters would just chop the flyrants apart. Which is exactly what happened with one of the flyrants. Ahriman also had Warptime to give him similar mobility to the Thousand Sons DP. The death hex/bloodletter combo completed countered the flyrants and their usual ability to fly through your lines deleting your infantry without fear of retaliation. I imagine it would work great against any kind of highly mobile, high invuln beatstick that likes to jump past your lines and wreck your dudes. Bloodletters are perfect for taking advantage of death hex since they have a natural AP -3. And there's a gazillion of them with their annoying-to-deal-with 5+ invulns.
Having so much psyker saturation in my army was something I've never experienced before. With all my big offensive spells on the LoC (+2 to cast/deny, infernal gate, bolt of change) and Ahriman (+1 to cast/deny, death hex, infernal gaze, warptime) plus a supporting changecaster with Gaze of Fate in my back lines, I'd basically guarantee that death hexes and mortal wounds would be going off consistently every turn once they were in range. The LoC alone output something like 20 mortal wounds over the course of the game, though a big part of that was probably also due to the matchup and the way it influenced our deployments. That coupled with the 2 other thousand sons DPs with Brotherhood of Sorcerers gave me so much mortal wound potential and psychic phase dominance that it almost seemed guaranteed that all of my spell combos would succeed. I definitely rolled hot that game but still, having 11 casts per turn and having almost none of them fail was pretty incredible. Thousand Sons DPs spamming smites on 5s was great. Horror smites are terrible and I did make the mistake of using them once which increased the smite roll on my LoC enough for him to just barely fail a smite which would have killed a 1w flyrant a turn earlier. But having just one changecaster for backup smites and the LoC with his +2 to cast smites made my non-ksons smite spamming extremely consistent.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/08 01:50:22
lindsay40k wrote: @barboggo - that’s an incredible comeback and an outstanding bloodbath. TSons SC is really looking strong right now. (Would anyone consider using the Elite slot? Maybe adding a Tzaangor shaman?)
How do you mean ‘double Death Hex’?
Double death hex as in Ahriman has it and one of the Thousand Sons DPs has it.
-snip-
I snipped the rest of your post to prevent making the thread very cluttered, but I think what Lindsay was questioning was your use of two death hexes.
From your description, it sounded like you had it set up so that when he attacked you, you could death hex both of his flyrants and murder them down. Which is obviously illegal, as you can't cast death hex twice.
I'm assuming that what you mean is that you have death hex on two casters so that you can spread them out, and so whichever part of your army gets attacked by a flyrant on any particular turn, you have someone around to hex it to help you kill it?
Unless you actually are casting two death hexes in a turn....
lindsay40k wrote: @barboggo - that’s an incredible comeback and an outstanding bloodbath. TSons SC is really looking strong right now. (Would anyone consider using the Elite slot? Maybe adding a Tzaangor shaman?)
How do you mean ‘double Death Hex’?
Double death hex as in Ahriman has it and one of the Thousand Sons DPs has it. My opponent was very balled up in the center of the map since we were playing Crucible of Champions with spearhead assault deployment. That's the one with the center objective, so we knew it was going to be extremely bloody since both of us had close-range, horde-y, melee armies and we both took Recon, Butcher's Bill, and The Reaper as our ITC secondaries.
T2 I dropped two bloodletter bombs on my opponent's left and right flanks which forced him to split up his termagant screens and flyrants to deal with them. Two psykers with death hex allowed me to make it very, very dangerous for those flyrants to support his gants because as soon as he gets within death hex range the bloodletters would just chop the flyrants apart. Which is exactly what happened with one of the flyrants. Ahriman also had Warptime to give him similar mobility to the Thousand Sons DP. The death hex/bloodletter combo completed countered the flyrants and their usual ability to fly through your lines deleting your infantry without fear of retaliation. I imagine it would work great against any kind of highly mobile, high invuln beatstick that likes to jump past your lines and wreck your dudes. Bloodletters are perfect for taking advantage of death hex since they have a natural AP -3. And there's a gazillion of them with their annoying-to-deal-with 5+ invulns.
Having so much psyker saturation in my army was something I've never experienced before. With all my big offensive spells on the LoC (+2 to cast/deny, infernal gate, bolt of change) and Ahriman (+1 to cast/deny, death hex, infernal gaze, warptime) plus a supporting changecaster with Gaze of Fate in my back lines, I'd basically guarantee that death hexes and mortal wounds would be going off consistently every turn once they were in range. The LoC alone output something like 20 mortal wounds over the course of the game, though a big part of that was probably also due to the matchup and the way it influenced our deployments. That coupled with the 2 other thousand sons DPs with Brotherhood of Sorcerers gave me so much mortal wound potential and psychic phase dominance that it almost seemed guaranteed that all of my spell combos would succeed. I definitely rolled hot that game but still, having 11 casts per turn and having almost none of them fail was pretty incredible. Thousand Sons DPs spamming smites on 5s was great. Horror smites are terrible and I did make the mistake of using them once which increased the smite roll on my LoC enough for him to just barely fail a smite which would have killed a 1w flyrant a turn earlier. But having just one changecaster for backup smites and the LoC with his +2 to cast smites made my non-ksons smite spamming extremely consistent.
Bloodletters always frustrated me due to the morale check and the susceptibility to the backswing after being caught in a screen. I also struggle getting all the bases in melee range so even wehn I bring like 20+ ;letters on the 28mm base I swing with maybe 12 even on the 3d6 charge... Glad to hear a success story.
Skull Cannons ABSOLUTELY have a place in any Daemons list. They are very cheap at 100 points, they don't profile, they ignore cover bonuses (which is real handy post-faq), and can easily deal damage to pretty much everything in the game, to some degree. Sure, d6 shots is unreliable, but strength 8, BS 3+, -2 AP and d3 damage are pretty solid. In my experience, they're actually a very, very good anti-infantry gun. They wound most of any infantry models on a 2+, and the -2 means that even Marines have to roll a 5+ to avoid damage, and the d3 means you can pretty effectively kill TEQs.
Heck, i've used skull cannons to great effect against light tanks as well. Not vindicators or anything like that, but Dreadnaughts and Predators will at least get a healthy chunk taken out of them each turn. And with their solid melee stats, a skull cannon can protect itself without needing serious bubblewrapping.
Yeah, taking two of the same power to give it plenty of threat range is solid. I used to do similar with Warptime back when it made Warp Talons and Terminators into wrecking balls. Even played Familiar to use it in an unexpected location, on occasion.
Did Familiar in Death Hex to take down Herald Deathwolf’s Storm Shield once, back when it was a 2++. Got me like six VPs in the mission I was playing. Would definitely consider doubling it up in a similar list to yours.
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
