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I just wanted to hear from other Ork players which seems to be more of an effective list, between the Green Tide vs Speed freak ranging from 1500 pts to 2000pts I know it varies on the opponent but I wanted to hear from you all, if dont leave a comment please chose from the poll, and if your not a ork player which list gives you a more difficult time, thanks

Personally Speed Freak - Meaning 5x Trucks, Death Koptas, buggies and such has done ok. Except for D@mn Kill Point Missions. 12 boys and a trukk just too easy to kill and get points for.

I'm moving towards a 3x Battle wagons with 19-20 boyz stuffed inside list and It worked better, But is slower (12 inch on BW) than the faster Trukk Army. So I don't consider it a Speed Freek Army.

I know both lists are mean, but what I think it comes down to is: can you effectively move a green tide list quick enough for round times?

C)Both.Use the Large Mobs of boys,but have a lot of Warbuggies,Skorchas,Wartrakks,BWs in there.

Steak wrote:I know both lists are mean, but what I think it comes down to is: can you effectively move a green tide list quick enough for round times?

this is very true thats the problem I'm having right not, moving all the boyz fast enough

Use templates

Speed Freeks. Sun-Tzu explains that after intelligence, mobility is the next characteristic you need the most. Tides can be devastating, and are great. I just prefer the mobility.

Speed Freak it all the way.
I love how Speed Freak lists look on a tabletop and I love how they play.

Tepogue wrote:Personally Speed Freak - Meaning 5x Trucks, Death Koptas, buggies and such has done ok. Except for D@mn Kill Point Missions. 12 boys and a trukk just too easy to kill and get points for.

I'm moving towards a 3x Battle wagons with 19-20 boyz stuffed inside list and It worked better, But is slower (12 inch on BW) than the faster Trukk Army. So I don't consider it a Speed Freek Army.

Trucks ist are doomed to fail AV 10 and open toped means they will all die in the first turn of shooting since nearly every weapon in the game can feth them up.

Battlewagon spam is how you do speed freak armies for orks 3 or 4 BWs with deffrolas gives you mobility, and an answer to av 13/14. Plus they carry enuff boyz to make a diffrence and win combats.

Truck list are only suggested by 3 types of player 1.Those who have access to tons of those dinky gorka morka trucks that abuse LOS (and should be banned)

2. Those who made an ork army of the 3 or 4 battleforces and refuse to accept that 2/3 of the models within its are useless.

3. Just plain old bad players with little understanding of the rules of game experince.

May come of as a little harsh but if I can save a fellow wargamer from wasting 45 bucks on a truck kit its been totally worth it.

Jubear wrote:
Trucks ist are doomed to fail AV 10 and open toped means they will all die in the first turn of shooting since nearly every weapon in the game can feth them up.

Battlewagon spam is how you do speed freak armies for orks 3 or 4 BWs with deffrolas gives you mobility, and an answer to av 13/14. Plus they carry enuff boyz to make a diffrence and win combats.

Truck list are only suggested by 3 types of player 1.Those who have access to tons of those dinky gorka morka trucks that abuse LOS (and should be banned)

2. Those who made an ork army of the 3 or 4 battleforces and refuse to accept that 2/3 of the models within its are useless.

3. Just plain old bad players with little understanding of the rules of game experince.

May come of as a little harsh but if I can save a fellow wargamer from wasting 45 bucks on a truck kit its been totally worth it.

1) Yes, trukks get canned REAL fast.

2) For about 14-19 points more, you're fielding 1 more boy, and 1 more PK Nob. They can attack different targets, and can go different directions right off the bat.

3) I have 2 gorka morka trukks(started in Rogue Trader days) and they're the only ones I have. I use them. I haven't bought more because that IS a waste of 45 bucks.

4) Your 2nd point: How are 2/3rd of the models useless?

5) 3rd point: Bad understanding? In my case, I make use of what I have. There could be strategic reasons for using a couple trukks instead of battlewagons, it's almost like going combat squads with Marines.

Sorry if this seems like a harsh rebuttal, but it seemed like some snap judgments. I wasn't trying to take this personally, then I saw the statement that trukk lists are only suggested by 3 types of players. That's a serious judgment there. Please, that is definitely opinion. Alot of budding players use trukks. Trukks are also effective in smaller point games, like 600-1000. Only less competitive armies maybe? Shoot, a good amount of all Codexes wouldn't even be used if it weren't for friendly games.

1, same page here

2, Not sure what you mean by this.

3. They are viable when they are that small because they can kept outta LoS the new truck models have a rather large profile in comparison. That being said they are not legal (they are gorka morka trucks not 40k)

4. Bikes=useless unless they are nobz, Truck=useless because they are trucks...

5. Cant really think of any times when I rather have a truck over a BW.

And of course I dont take anything personally these are just my opions based on my local meta (we dont feth around here go hard or go home) and my experinces as an ork player

How about trukks with a KFF?

AllYourBase wrote:How about trukks with a KFF?

Even a +4 save aint gunna keep the trucks alive AV10 just makes it a target for every weapon on the board a good player will just shoot at one truck till its stunned/destroyed and move on to the next.

Trukks are used to give your boyz a 12"+disembark+run move on t1. The boyz don't stay inside. By using trukks however, you saturate av and get good charges off on t2. Trukks that survive should be used to tank shock infantry and cut your opponents army into chunks that your army can deal with. No risk of counter attacks if they can't get past your trukks. I've played battlewagons and I've played av saturation (the kind that has 25 vehicles at 2k). Battlewagons are a fine and fun list, but at 2k I'd totally go with the trukks. It gives you enough points to max out on av and really saturate your opponent. You have 5 trukk mobz, 2 battlewagons and 9 killakans charging forward, and those boyz atleast are gonna get t2 charges. Not bad imo.

Check out MVBrandt's Orks list off the blogosphere. That has 26 vehicles at 2k.

Jubear wrote:

AllYourBase wrote:How about trukks with a KFF?

Even a +4 save aint gunna keep the trucks alive AV10 just makes it a target for every weapon on the board a good player will just shoot at one truck till its stunned/destroyed and move on to the next.

Yes Trukks are fragile, but they're also fast, so the solution is to: Hide the Trukk, Hide the Trukk, Hide the Trukk, jump out and Krump Stuff.

I run a Trukk list and it's pretty effective, and the Stunned thing is why I run them with Extra Armour. I don't care if my Trukks aren't allowed to shoot, so long as they can move, and Extra Armour makes it more likely. I also run them with Red Paint Jobs for the Extra Speed, and then Reinforced Rams so that it doesn't matter as much if I'm driving through Difficult terrain.

Back to the point, although I run a Speed Freek (sort of) Trukk Based Ork list, I went for Green Tide. If I had the money, I would run one of those instead.

Rampage wrote:

Jubear wrote:

AllYourBase wrote:How about trukks with a KFF?

Even a +4 save aint gunna keep the trucks alive AV10 just makes it a target for every weapon on the board a good player will just shoot at one truck till its stunned/destroyed and move on to the next.

Yes Trukks are fragile, but they're also fast, so the solution is to: Hide the Trukk, Hide the Trukk, Hide the Trukk, jump out and Krump Stuff.

I run a Trukk list and it's pretty effective, and the Stunned thing is why I run them with Extra Armour. I don't care if my Trukks aren't allowed to shoot, so long as they can move, and Extra Armour makes it more likely. I also run them with Red Paint Jobs for the Extra Speed, and then Reinforced Rams so that it doesn't matter as much if I'm driving through Difficult terrain.

Back to the point, although I run a Speed Freek (sort of) Trukk Based Ork list, I went for Green Tide. If I had the money, I would run one of those instead.

First point those extra 6 inches dont really get you into combat any earlier if you have deployed right you should be in combat second turn with wagons regardless. If you have first turn you can pivot trick for 3" move 12" and then on turn 2 you can move another 12" disembark 2" warrrhhh d6" then assault 6"

Second trucks are really hard to completely hide the LOS rules are very forgiving for the shooting player and the model is rather large.

Thirdly so you take the worst transport in the game and blow heaps of points of upgrading it...Have fun when your 55 point death trap ramshackels its way in the wrong direction and makes even simple transports blocking tricks hard because now you have a 1/3 chance of your truck not even dying how you want it too!

And now to balance out all my anti truck rage I am going to go into what I like about truck armies

1.Alot of PKs because of so many small 12 man squads
2.Because they are fast you can move 12" first turn fire your weapons and still get into combat 2nd turn
3.Ramshackle is fun in friendly games


However I still think trucks are not the go when starting an ork army as I feel its best to have a solid competive core army and then buy the wacky stuff thats just for fun games.

Jubear wrote:you can move another 12" disembark 2" warrrhhh d6" then assault 6"

I lol'd. I imagine a really self conscious ork with taped up glasses in the back of the mob saying this quietly as everyone else waaaghhhs.

Steak wrote:

Jubear wrote:you can move another 12" disembark 2" warrrhhh d6" then assault 6"

I lol'd. I imagine a really self conscious ork with taped up glasses in the back of the mob saying this quietly as everyone else waaaghhhs.

I play blood axe orks so my boyz waaaghhhs in a tactical way

The Green Tide is better, but harder to use. Trukks and Battlewagons are easy. Drive forward, make saves, assault.

Tournament time limits hamper green tide more than another consideration, and to a greater extent than any other army build.

Tide Orks, backed by lootas, deff koptas, and big gun Kannons (for anti-mech), are capable of going toe to toe with any army in 40k. you just don't see it much due to the time required.

It's not so much that you can't move the models fast enough, it's that a canny opponent knows that the tide wins in late game. He can slow you down (not allowing move + run, his own slow play, etc) that the tide player cannot completely control his own destiny.

Polonius wrote:Tournament time limits hamper green tide more than another consideration, and to a greater extent than any other army build.

Tide Orks, backed by lootas, deff koptas, and big gun Kannons (for anti-mech), are capable of going toe to toe with any army in 40k. you just don't see it much due to the time required.

It's not so much that you can't move the models fast enough, it's that a canny opponent knows that the tide wins in late game. He can slow you down (not allowing move + run, his own slow play, etc) that the tide player cannot completely control his own destiny.

Agreed and its just not fun to move 120+ models a turn.

Jubear wrote:

Rampage wrote:

Jubear wrote:

AllYourBase wrote:How about trukks with a KFF?

Even a +4 save aint gunna keep the trucks alive AV10 just makes it a target for every weapon on the board a good player will just shoot at one truck till its stunned/destroyed and move on to the next.

Yes Trukks are fragile, but they're also fast, so the solution is to: Hide the Trukk, Hide the Trukk, Hide the Trukk, jump out and Krump Stuff.

I run a Trukk list and it's pretty effective, and the Stunned thing is why I run them with Extra Armour. I don't care if my Trukks aren't allowed to shoot, so long as they can move, and Extra Armour makes it more likely. I also run them with Red Paint Jobs for the Extra Speed, and then Reinforced Rams so that it doesn't matter as much if I'm driving through Difficult terrain.

Back to the point, although I run a Speed Freek (sort of) Trukk Based Ork list, I went for Green Tide. If I had the money, I would run one of those instead.

Thirdly so you take the worst transport in the game and blow heaps of points of upgrading it...Have fun when your 55 point death trap ramshackels its way in the wrong direction and makes even simple transports blocking tricks hard because now you have a 1/3 chance of your truck not even dying how you want it too!

Calm down.

I will do when it happens, so far my opponents only ever manage to wreck my Trukks after they have delivered their occupents into the enemy. Why would I use a Trukk for blocking tricks? That's a stupid idea, It's an Armour 10 all round open topped vehicle sat out in the open, you need it to be behind cover to live. If you use a Trukk properly then they are very effective if you've filled them full of the right units, remember that even if it isn't completely obsucerd, so long it is mostly so then I'm still getting a 4+ save. When I use them, this normally results in 2/3rds of my Trukks hitting the enemy lines and unloading my maxed out squads of Nobz.

But, either way we'll see who's right when I come back from my Tournament tomorrow and update my sig.

I use both trukks and battlewagons.. Insert calling me a noobie here. I like a couple trukks for the high PK to Ork ratio. I hide them between/behind the BW's until I am in charge range, I charge out with the boyz in the trukks, and keep the shootas in the BW. We all know the boyz are getting wiped after the charge. Also the bad thing with huge green tide, it is really hard to get all 30 orks into hitting range. I play 2 BW and 2 trukks

Not a newbie, AYB. I like the ratio too, and it depends on the points you have to work with. Take a 125+ point model and compare it to a 40 point one, and yes, EVERY time the more expensive one is better if it's one on one.

Yeah, tournaments are problems for green tides, time-wise.

I've been playing a speed freaks list for years that consists of a battlewagon, 4 trukks, 2 looted wagons and tons of buggies, bikes and koptas. Every time I see people on here bashing the trukk lists I can't help but wonder if they have actual game experience with them, or if they are merely talking out of their backsides. Yes, trukks are AV10, but it has been my experience that the majority of my trukks almost always survive the game.

Waaaaghmaster wrote:I've been playing a speed freaks list for years that consists of a battlewagon, 4 trukks, 2 looted wagons and tons of buggies, bikes and koptas. Every time I see people on here bashing the trukk lists I can't help but wonder if they have actual game experience with them, or if they are merely talking out of their backsides. Yes, trukks are AV10, but it has been my experience that the majority of my trukks almost always survive the game.

Have you played a IG leaf blower list or a SW long fangs spam list? Ive tried a truck spam list a few time and Ive always lost 3-4 trucks a turn unless there is a solid massive piece of LOS blocking terrain in the centre of the board every game I dont know how people are getting into combat with these list.

Jubear wrote:
Have you played a IG leaf blower list or a SW long fangs spam list? Ive tried a truck spam list a few time and Ive always lost 3-4 trucks a turn unless there is a solid massive piece of LOS blocking terrain in the centre of the board every game I dont know how people are getting into combat with these list.

Played a 2500 point game against a SW long fang spam list this past weekend. Ended the game with 2 of my 4 trukks unharmed and a third immobilized. The trick to successfully playing a speed freak list is generally to go second if you win the roll so you can see how your opponent deploys, then try to position your army in a manner that lets you isolate a portion of theirs and limit the number of heavy weapons with range to your trukks. Then try to steal the initiative.

Use bikes as mobile firebases (avoid CC) to soften up units you plan to assault with your trukk boys. Also, a pair of boomgun wagons will draw a lot of fire away from your trucks.

Contrary to popular belief, there is more to playing a successful trukk/speed freak list than lining up and hoping your trukks live long enough to get to the other side of the table. There are a lot of synergies that are not immediately visible and you kind of have to stumble across through trial and error. Given the relatively low number of boyz and the low armor vehicles, it often requires a fair amount of finesse to play it to it's full potential.

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

Jubear wrote:
Have you played a IG leaf blower list or a SW long fangs spam list? Ive tried a truck spam list a few time and Ive always lost 3-4 trucks a turn unless there is a solid massive piece of LOS blocking terrain in the centre of the board every game I dont know how people are getting into combat with these list.

Played a 2500 point game against a SW long fang spam list this past weekend. Ended the game with 2 of my 4 trukks unharmed and a third immobilized. The trick to successfully playing a speed freak list is generally to go second if you win the roll so you can see how your opponent deploys, then try to position your army in a manner that lets you isolate a portion of theirs and limit the number of heavy weapons with range to your trukks. Then try to steal the initiative.

Use bikes as mobile firebases (avoid CC) to soften up units you plan to assault with your trukk boys. Also, a pair of boomgun wagons will draw a lot of fire away from your trucks.

Contrary to popular belief, there is more to playing a successful trukk/speed freak list than lining up and hoping your trukks live long enough to get to the other side of the table. There are a lot of synergies that are not immediately visible and you kind of have to stumble across through trial and error. Given the relatively low number of boyz and the low armor vehicles, it often requires a fair amount of finesse to play it to it's full potential.

Ok thats fine how do I stop my opponent targeting my trucks? Its all well to say things like its all about synergies and I am sure you it make you feel tactical as feth but..It dose not change the fact that any halfway decent player is going to crush my truck spam in 1 turn of shooting and there is nothing I can do about it .

Nearly every weapon in the game is capable of hurting a truck a KFF save is not going to help youl survive when even bolter marines can blow you up. Ive tried taking "threat" units to draw fire away from the trucks aswell and I still cant find an opponent dumb enuff to waste shots on said threat unit when they can just kill/disable my scoring units or rack up tons of kill points.

Jubear wrote:
Ok thats fine how do I stop my opponent targeting my trucks? Its all well to say things like its all about synergies and I am sure you it make you feel tactical as feth but..It dose not change the fact that any halfway decent player is going to crush my truck spam in 1 turn of shooting and there is nothing I can do about it .

Nearly every weapon in the game is capable of hurting a truck a KFF save is not going to help youl survive when even bolter marines can blow you up. Ive tried taking "threat" units to draw fire away from the trucks aswell and I still cant find an opponent dumb enuff to waste shots on said threat unit when they can just kill/disable my scoring units or rack up tons of kill points.

Target Saturation is your friend when you run a truck list.
To begin with, 2/3 of the deployment types is going to leave your trucks outside of bolter range for at least the first turn. Second, use bikes and buggies to draw that fire away from your trucks. twin-linked rockets mounted on a fast vehicle and 18" range twin-linked dakka guns with a threat range of 30 inches (move and shoot) are a much more immediate threat than trukks that won't be on you for a turn or two.

The main trick for speed freaks is giving your opponent more targets than he can deal with, and make sure he has to choose between multiple things that can severely punish him if ignored. For that matter, toss in a battlewagon with scoring nobs (with requisite KFF) and you'll see a large portion of the dedicated anti-vehicle fire get pulled away from the trukks.

Trukk lists are perfectly viable, they just require more than the wargaming equivalent to playing an mmo via facerolling your keyboard.

Like I said my opponents most of the time dont care about deff kopters and such they know that once my boyz are dead they have won the game it does not matter if next turn my kopter trashes a transport of some such because without the boyz I cant hold objectives or win the assualt phase.

The only use I have ever found for trucks is getting a few more boyz in the list when points are tight but even then the only thing that makes the truck viable is the 4 BWs it can hide behind.