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Hello all. I've been thinking of switching from GW to warmachine/hordes mainly because of the price of GW minis. However looking at the PP website I've noticed that several of the units are just as pricey if not morso than many GW models ($85 war engines, $45 warcasters, etc). So my question is how does the price even out?

It winds up being cheaper for a full army as Warmachine armies contain fewer models. The largest games regularly played is 50pts, like how (at least where I played 40K and Fantasy) the average Warhammer game is 2000pts. I have a few 50 point armies planned out. The most expensive one is $350 total. Compare this to a 2000 point Warhammer 40K army, which generally clocks in at $550 to $650.

If you like having buttloads of miniatures then it's not cheaper. If you just want to have however many minis you need to play a good-sized game, then Warmachine is cheaper.


Or, to put it another way, sure, a Tactical Marine box is $37, while a box of Bane Thralls is $80. But, you're going to need a Rhino for that Tactical Squad, so there's $70, and you're going to need three of each of them. You'll only really ever need one box of Bane Thralls, though.

It's also a lot cheaper to get started in Warmachine. $50 gets you an 11 point army and quick start rules, and for another 10 or 20 bucks you can easily bump that up to 15. Warmachine at 15 points is generally more balanced than Warhammer 40K at low points levels (consider, say Imperial Guard vs Space Marines at 500 points).

Starter box's come with 11-15 pts for $50.

You can get the same discounts from retailers as you do for 40k models.

Cost of the army varies as it does in 40k.

Overall, price per model is a bit cheaper in most cases.

The total number of models is cheaper.

Now to me this is what's huge.

I play

Pfeora
Avatar
Reckoner
Full TFG+UA
min knights errants
chior
vassal

Just an example list.

Now i go buy pKeross a unit or two and a warjack.. its pretty much a different playstyle.. almost like having a 2nd army already.

A whole unit usually costs around $45 USD. Individual models range from $9-$16 for human sized, $15-$20 for medium and bigguns usually $30-$50. A full cav unit is the most expensive thing they make for around $100. So overall, the same cost or less compared to GW.

This doesn't factor in that their metal is really well done. I haven't seen any major miscasts or need any major cleaning.

There's another, somewhat hidden factor, in that Warmachine/Hordes rarely requires, rewards, or even allows, spamming identical units/models. This means that when you buy a unit/model, you will probably never need to buy/assemble/paint those models ever again. For the collector, this can be very nice.

As a final cost saver, you can effectively change your entire army just by swapping the warcaster out.

Take Khador, for example:

pIrusk
eSorscha
Old Witch
Winter Guard Infantryx10
Unit Attachment
Kovnik Joe
Weapons Attachmentx0-3
Behemoth Character Warjack

This is a grand total of 19 models for a cost of around $250 retail-- quite a bit versus 60 Tactical Marines that you could buy for a similar price.

But with these 19 models, you can make three completely distinct army lists at roughly a 20-pt level that all play very, very differently. With Irusk, it becomes a resilient grinding tarpit list. With Old Witch, it becomes a denial/surgical attrition list. With eSorscha it becomes a brutal feat-centric decimation/assassination list.

If this were 40k, you'd have 40 Tac Marines, Shrike, Vulkan, and Calgar. Shrike would make them fast Tactical Marines. Vulkan would make them flamey Tactical Marines. Calgar would make them... uh... sort of fearless hit-and-run Tactical Marines. None of those feel like valid army lists, none of them are really and truly 'different'.

Surtur wrote:A whole unit usually costs around $45 USD. Individual models range from $9-$16 for human sized, $15-$20 for medium and bigguns usually $30-$50. A full cav unit is the most expensive thing they make for around $100. So overall, the same cost or less compared to GW.

This doesn't factor in that their metal is really well done. I haven't seen any major miscasts or need any major cleaning.

That's because they have a little thing called quality control, unlike GW.

See that slip? That's who approved the blister/box to be shipped out. It's why they ask you for the slip number when you report mispacks.

Too many of one number someone's out a job most likely.

Look at getting them from thewarstore.com as the prices are a bit less than at he PP website.

And since it was not posted yet, if you are interested in playing menoth or khador, get the starter box, as it will have two complete armies, as stated in other threads the Khador list the box has is usually worth the price of the whole starter.

Well, other than the battleboxes, PP doesn't sell miniatures on their site.

They have this crazy notion that they are a manufacturer and thus want to encourage you to buy miniatures from an independent store or a webstore.

Model for model most prices are the same, as people are saying, you just need less of them.
Another point is that once you have the basic rules, you don't need to buy any more. The miniatures come with their rules on the cards.

Da Boss wrote:Model for model most prices are the same, as people are saying, you just need less of them.
Another point is that once you have the basic rules, you don't need to buy any more. The miniatures come with their rules on the cards.

Yes and no.

The rules regarding Battle Engines aren't on the cards. Pretty important re: what they ignore, how their arcs work, and what is ignored in fighting them.

This is true, and you can get an idea for what each unit does by looking it up on the internet. I like having the force books for the fluff and artwork and having the specific rules for models I might want to include, but it's not 100% necessary.


POST 500 YEAAAAAH

EDIT: Not 100% necessary in the case of non-Battle Engines then.

As noted, the game only costs as much or as little as you decide you need to put into it. If you build for some overlap, you even save quite a ibt.

For instance, here are two lists I tend to run with Kromac and epic Kaya a lot:

Kromac the Ravenous
Beasts: Gorax, Warpwolf Stalker, Pureblood Warpwolf, Wold Guardian
Solos: Blackclad Wayfarer, Druid Wilder, Lord of the Feast, Feralgeist
Units: Tharn Wolfriders (Max), Shifting Stones + UA

Kaya, the Moonhunter & Laris
Beasts: Laris (with Kaya), Warpwolf Stalker, Pureblood Warpwolf, Gorax, Gnarlhorn Satyr, Shadowhorn Satyr
Solos: Druid Wilder
Units; Druids of Orboros + UA, Shifting Stones + UA, Min. Warpborn Skinwalkers

These are what I run as what I like best. That said, I have run different lists with both fo them. Kromac, easily, can run SKinwalkers instead of Wolfriders, a Gnarlhorn instead of a Guardian, and hell, use the points leftover to put in the SHadowhorn or Druids.

But assuming them seperately, the lists share about $110 of models (Stones, Wilder, Pureblood, Stalker, Gorax). Kromac's list is about $170 ($280 for a 50pt. lsit), and Kaya's is $199 ($299) on it's own. This seems a bit, but then when you combine them, you actually spent about $379 for two fairly different casters, and enough models between the two of them to build quite a bunch of different lists. And even just going for stuff that can voerlap with both (say no Wolfriders and sticking to Druids, and sharing besasts) brings this down a bit.

I think the strength here is the nature of warlocks and warcasters in army composition. Just changing taht piece changs a lot of what some of the very same units do. Even if the two casters above ran the exact same warbeasts, they will use them differently, defend them differently, and have different endgames between them, despite being able to make completley identical lists.

And stuff.

You also save a TON of money in hair replacement and coloring. The rules are very well written so you are not in constant arguments about rules and tearing your hair out or going grey with how people think they should work.

Oh, and the books are much better quality and look alot nicer.

But the biggest difference in cost in how many models you need. The costs are relatively comparable, otherwise. But PP models are much nicer and higher overall quality.

Another thing about PP's pricing over GW's, is that PP tends to price on how much material goes into the model. GW prices based on table-top value. (Consider the price difference between a 10 man Grey Hunter box and a 5 man Terminator box.)

Armandloft wrote:Another thing about PP's pricing over GW's, is that PP tends to price on how much material goes into the model. GW prices based on table-top value.

This is part of the truth PP prices are combination of material weight and amount of pieces. Also they have only once raised prices of their figs*, so the older figs are relatively cheap as the prices are the same they were when the figures came out.



* I know that some of the figs have had a price hike as part of the new packaging this year, which would make this the second price rise for those figs.

Ah hah. I knew I'd seen a price comparison on a blog somewhere around here.

http://ikdaily.blogspot.com/2011/08/paying-price-without-thinking-twice.html

Metsuri wrote:

Armandloft wrote:Another thing about PP's pricing over GW's, is that PP tends to price on how much material goes into the model. GW prices based on table-top value.

This is part of the truth PP prices are combination of material weight and amount of pieces. Also they have only once raised prices of their figs*, so the older figs are relatively cheap as the prices are the same they were when the figures came out.

I do think that, on average, the warcasters are a little more expensive than an equivalent troop model would be, but then again, I only need one Lord Carver, whereas I need a lot of little piggy brigands.

I don't think that the price comparison has been done for WFB yet. I might sit down this weekend and try to do one, if I have time.

I really do not like to compare warmachine to warhammer for cost. Both systems cost roughly the same on a per model basis, the catch is you need a lot less models to play
Warmachine.. Generally I would consider 35-50 points the standard. A 35 pt army generally costs about 200-250 depending on what you get, as 50 pt would be about 250-300 ish. It can be even cheeper if you build off one of the battle boxes.

Metsuri wrote:
* I know that some of the figs have had a price hike as part of the new packaging this year, which would make this the second price rise for those figs.

It's not so much a 'price hike' as it is an actual 'price adjustment' (strange, right?). The new boxsets include a full unit, instead of having the min-sized unit and having blisters of the models in the unit for sale. So, while the box might cost more, you're actually saving money.

It does prevent one from buying 2 boxes and being able to field either 1 max to two min units though.

Depending on the faction you can buy every miniature in the line for the cost of a single 2,000 point GW Army. You have tons of models for switching as you wish, unlike the GW version where you would have to buy more to create other list.

infinite_array wrote:

Metsuri wrote:
* I know that some of the figs have had a price hike as part of the new packaging this year, which would make this the second price rise for those figs.

It's not so much a 'price hike' as it is an actual 'price adjustment' (strange, right?). The new boxsets include a full unit, instead of having the min-sized unit and having blisters of the models in the unit for sale. So, while the box might cost more, you're actually saving money.

It does prevent one from buying 2 boxes and being able to field either 1 max to two min units though.

Some of the new boxsets are more expensive than the old blisters. One example that come to me as a cygnar player is the cygnar battlemechaniks, which are a small unit. The old blisters cost around £10 for whole unit and the new boxed one is over £13.

Note that older units may go up in cost in the repackaging. PP has raised costs before, but it is purely due to the fact of metal costs going up. This is why they are moving to more plastic and some resin/metal hybrid stuff of late.

This is probably going ot especially happen with older units, which may not of seen any price adjustments since 2008, and who'vve been being "made up for' with newer releases.

And stuff.

Not universally tho. Bane Thralls actually went down in price when they were resculpted Don't think the full Trencher unit went up much if at all, either, although I'm not entirely sure.

sadly Satyxis Raiders are going up alot


total cost for 10 was £31? metal with maelstrom discount

Its gonna be £40 for 10 now :(

THey're still metal, but yeah, it seems that some models got it and some don't. Again, it is adjustment based on their ability to produce them it seems, which is at least something honest about it.

And stuff.

I guess so, I am more sympathetic to PP than to GW.

However it is a steap rise in price!!

Aye, but one question to ask is how long were they at the lower price. I've only been purchasing PP for just over a year but I've heard that they rarely if ever put up prices. For example:

ghordson avalancher - £22.45
wroughthammer rockram - £14.35

Pretty much the same jack but one came out later than the other and had a price that was related to the price of building it.

The other question you have to ask is how many units of Staxis will i really need? Most times people only buy a unit once unless they are running a tier.

this is true.

As I said I am more relaxed when it comes to PP price increases as they are often transparent and somewhat less frequent

still £40 wahhh lol (not that it will stop me buying one)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OH additional info on my last post

Seems Maelstrom overestimated the price. They are only going to be £35 odd. Which for a price increase seems alot more reasonable. YAY PP for not being like GW!

yastobaal wrote:Aye, but one question to ask is how long were they at the lower price. I've only been purchasing PP for just over a year but I've heard that they rarely if ever put up prices. For example:

ghordson avalancher - £22.45
wroughthammer rockram - £14.35

Pretty much the same jack but one came out later than the other and had a price that was related to the price of building it.

That's a pretty good example there, yeah. I was about when they did the initial price increase, and some things that shifted that come to mind for Circle:

Shifting Stones - went from about $10 USD to $12 USD.
Feral Warpwolf - went from $25 USD to (I think) $28 USD.
Gnarlhorn Satyr - Went from $38 USD to $40 USD.
Reeves of Orboros - Went from $55 USD to $60 USD for the base unit.

So it's about $1 to $5 per model, I think. For warriors, about a buck per fig, for bigger stuff, the higher numbers. And as noted, resculpts may actually lower the cost (Man o' War Shock Troopers, I believe, are about $20 cheaper for the plastic ones) and there's the resculpt of the Bane Thralls being cheaper. I think the Choir, Mechaniks and the likes of them cost nearly nothing more if I remember right.

So very case-by-case, model-by-model, I think.

And stuff.