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Anyone notice that for fairly cheap, ogres are the best wizard assassins in the game?
Maneaters, with brace of guns, sniper and scout.
You've got a very good chance at killing wizards with one burst of shooting.
4 maneaters would get 8 shots, hitting on 4's, at S4 armor piercing.

-Matt

So what happens if they put their wizard in a unit?

Nothing, due to Sniper enabling the Mneaters to pick them out.

Do Maneaters have BS4 then? Assuming you're at short range and using Sniper.

Yeah, I've been reading through the book and one of the things I thought about was that sniper and being able to take out the Teclis' of the world. Still, 3 ME with 3 brace is like 186, which isn't exactly dirt cheap.

But really, there is so much good stuff in there, there's a lot of options.

I would rather have sniper and poison attacks.

First turn move up 6.

-1 to hit for long range
-1 to hit for Multiple shots
-1 to hit for sniper

Needing 6's to hit, and therefore 6's to poison.

3 of these will not be TOO cheap, but will put out 1 automatic wound on a chararacter per turn on average with a -2 to saves.

In subsequent rounds you could pottentionally hit on a 5+ (in short range)

zeekill wrote:I would rather have sniper and poison attacks.

First turn move up 6.

-1 to hit for long range
-1 to hit for Multiple shots
-1 to hit for sniper

Needing 6's to hit, and therefore 6's to poison.

3 of these will not be TOO cheap, but will put out 1 automatic wound on a chararacter per turn on average with a -2 to saves.

In subsequent rounds you could pottentionally hit on a 5+ (in short range)

6 shots, hitting on 6's with auto wound, vs scouts, which give you 6 shots, hitting on 5's at S4 and rolling to wound.
Would you rather have the auto wound, or average 2 hits at S4?
Since most wizards are T3, I'll take the extra hits, and scouting.

Actually, I'd take both. One unit with scout, the other with poison.

-Matt

Yeah, this is a cool little trick.

you can also take the Hellheart, not even Teclis or Cupped Hands on a Slann can ignore this.

Grey Templar wrote:you can also take the Hellheart, not even Teclis or Cupped Hands on a Slann can ignore this.

Well, the Maneaters can't take it, and you still have to get the HH into the highly variable range. Would really suck to activate a 1 use 50 pt item and it roll up like 5".

Yeah, but just make sure you are fairly close.

The Hellheart is a huge threat that can't be ignored, thats for sure.


I think the key is to use it once you are in combat. Wizards tend to hover nearby(or in the block itself) and buff the unit. then you let her rip.


considering the threat is anywhere between 5" and 30", thats a bit of a threat that Wizards take being near us.

What does it actually do?

Makes them roll on the miscast table.

things like the Puppet can effect the roll, but things like Teclis's "I Ignore 1st miscast each turn" and Cupped Hands don't work(cause its a roll and not an actual Miscast)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Ogres get a dispell dice for every Wizard that was effected too.

Yea, I think a Butcher with a Hellheart is going to be a staple in many OK armies.

Just means I have to invest in a Seerstaff and Vaul's Unmaking if I expect to be facing Ogres.

It is a magic item, right?

Yes, its an Arcane item.


Whats a Seerstaff do?

HE Item that allows me to pick me spells. Vaul's Unmaking will be a high priority spell against Hellheart Ogres.

Indeed, although you have to figure out where the Hellheart is first. it can be on any caster the ogres have.

Grey Templar wrote:Indeed, although you have to figure out where the Hellheart is first. it can be on any caster the ogres have.

Unless you have 3 butchers or something it shouldnt be that hard though

SM and 2 Lvl1s with Beasts will be fairly common

Plus, in a tournament you can see their list. At least in the tournaments I've played, you see the list first. So, you should be able to know where the HH is from the beginning of the game. Also, most people I play with, play with open lists....

Grey Templar wrote:SM and 2 Lvl1s with Beasts will be fairly common

I wouldn't expect that. With all the INCREDIBLE special choices in this book I think characters will be low priority. A slaughtermaster and a BSB is all that I'm taking.

Grey Templar wrote:Makes them roll on the miscast table.

things like the Puppet can effect the roll, but things like Teclis's "I Ignore 1st miscast each turn" and Cupped Hands don't work(cause its a roll and not an actual Miscast)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the Ogres get a dispell dice for every Wizard that was effected too.

Doesn't say anywhere "it's not a miscast" so it's possible Teclis can ignore it completely.
"Ignore a miscast" is a "special rule which affects a miscast roll"
They can decide it with Q&A.

Hellheart: "All enemy wizards within (range) of the bearer must roll on the Miscast Table. Special rules or magic items that affect a normal miscast roll can be used against miscasts caused by the Hellheart."

Teclis: "Teclis may ignore the effects of the first miscast he makes each turn."

Take from that what you will, but my(rather biased, I'll admit. F*** Teclis. Go Ogres!) opinion is that Teclis takes the miscast unless you can explain to me how he makes the miscast caused by the Hellheart.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Hellheart: "All enemy wizards within (range) of the bearer must roll on the Miscast Table. Special rules or magic items that affect a normal miscast roll can be used against miscasts caused by the Hellheart."

Teclis: "Teclis may ignore the effects of the first miscast he makes each turn."

Take from that what you will, but my(rather biased, I'll admit. F*** Teclis. Go Ogres!) opinion is that Teclis takes the miscast unless you can explain to me how he makes the miscast caused by the Hellheart.

The usual semantics grey area where a new item is created which doesn't work like the normal game works. Book writers can't write a paragraph of disclaimers for every special rule and how it will interact with magic items which don't actually exist at the time.
You've decided you can roll on a Miscast Table without it being a Miscast.
If it is a miscast and it's on Teclis, it's his first miscast that turn. His in that it applies to him. He's making a miscast test.
They can clarify if they want it to ignore the anti-miscast War Crown of Saphery if that is their intention.
My view would be the intention is visible where they're saying special rules about miscast apply as evidence that they considered some mages out there who pay points to not get terrorized by a miscast.

Anyway, he's 475 points and T2 with no save, just take Maneaters with sniper and put a bullet in his head.

TheBloodGod wrote:You've decided you can roll on a Miscast Table without it being a Miscast.

Maybe, I guess I have? What does that change?

If it is a miscast and it's on Teclis, it's his first miscast that turn. His in that it applies to him. He's making a miscast test.

He didn't make it though.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:You've decided you can roll on a Miscast Table without it being a Miscast.

Maybe, I guess I have? What does that change?

If it is a miscast and it's on Teclis, it's his first miscast that turn. His in that it applies to him. He's making a miscast test.

He didn't make it though.

You're trying to semantics loophole a magic item out of existence. There is no definition of what is and isn't "makes a miscast"
There's not a single sentence in the rulebook that says that a mage walking in range of an anti-mage item is "the item making a miscast and not the mage" or anything of the sort.
As a miscast that's happening oddly, it's up to them to choose. There is NOT just one way to take either Teclis paragraph or the Hellheart's paragraph.

Make
1. to bring into existence
- the miscast wouldn't exist if the mage wasn't there. Both a mage walking into range of the hellheart and hellheart's effect bring about a miscast.
2. to produce; cause to exist or happen; bring about
- again, the miscast is caused by him being within range of an enemy item.

It's a situation with no precedent because there are no rules about "miscast sources" mentioned.

Anyway, he's 475 points and T2 with no save, just take Maneaters with sniper and put a bullet in his head.

Lol, I need to sig that.

Why would having poisoned attacks mean that their missiles are poisoned?

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Why would having poisoned attacks mean that their missiles are poisoned?

If it didn't apply to ranged attacks, it would say "close combat attacks are poisoned". But because that qualifier is omitted, we can assume EVERY attack they make is poisoned, including ranged attacks.

TheBloodGod wrote:

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:You've decided you can roll on a Miscast Table without it being a Miscast.

Maybe, I guess I have? What does that change?

If it is a miscast and it's on Teclis, it's his first miscast that turn. His in that it applies to him. He's making a miscast test.

He didn't make it though.

You're trying to semantics loophole a magic item out of existence. There is no definition of what is and isn't "makes a miscast"
There's not a single sentence in the rulebook that says that a mage walking in range of an anti-mage item is "the item making a miscast and not the mage" or anything of the sort.
As a miscast that's happening oddly, it's up to them to choose. There is NOT just one way to take either Teclis paragraph or the Hellheart's paragraph.

Make
1. to bring into existence
- the miscast wouldn't exist if the mage wasn't there. Both a mage walking into range of the hellheart and hellheart's effect bring about a miscast.
2. to produce; cause to exist or happen; bring about
- again, the miscast is caused by him being within range of an enemy item.

It's a situation with no precedent because there are no rules about "miscast sources" mentioned.

1: that is such an insane stretch of logic. The mage didn't cause the Miscast, the Ogre with the Hellheart made the mage roll on the miscast chart as he is directly responsable. thats like saying I am responsable for the dent that Jerk who backed into my car caused because I parked in that particular parking spot.

2: as above

Fatewaver can still use his reroll on 1d6 of the miscast chart so he still has some protection from it.