Fulgrim. Better than The First Heretic?

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**huffstar**

Having read these novels in no sort of order i'm wondering which is the better tome? As each tells of the horrific but exellently scribed fall from the Emperors light, and into the nky blackness of the Immaterium i'm undecided at present. I reckon if Argal Tal should make another talon and horned appearence in forthcoming HH novels, that could probably swing it.

But what say you?

**LumenPraebeo**

You do realize you posted questions as the poll answers right?

Which legion? In my opinion, definitely the Emperors Children.

Favorite character from all the novels? Or just from those two books? Overall, I like Zahariel of the Dark Angels. From those books, definitely Tarvitz.

**huffstar**

Yeah, now that ya pointed it out it's definetely a 'DOH' moment, but it is my first poll.
Just about to start 'Descent of Angels' so i'll let ya know what I think of Zahariel.

**Valkyrie**

I would go for First Heretic, as it goes into a part of the Heresy that previously hadn't even been mentioned: What was the cause of the Warp rist that scattered the Primarch's pods across the galaxy.

**mattyrm**

I liked the first heretic most.

I felt sorry for Fulgrim though, sucks to be him!

**Dark Apostle 666**

1st heretic was my personal favourite, but Fulgrim definitely comes a close 2nd in the HH books I've read. Can't say I'm a fan of Zahariel from descent of angels, but then I dislike the DA for reasons unknown even to myself...

**Deadshot**

Haven't finished Fulgrim yet,but I know the general story.I like *Fulgrim the best,as a character,as oppossed to Lorgar*,but Heretic was a far better tome.

* Ferrus Manus,**surprisingly**,takes both of them and shoves them up each other's rear ends,in my opinion.

I thought Manus would be avertage,because the IH aren't reallt mentioned much.

**Jimsolo**

Which is the better book? I would have to say The First Heretic, since nothing could possibly be worse than Fulgrim.

**Soladrin**

Jimsolo wrote:Which is the better book? I would have to say The First Heretic, since nothing could possibly be worse than Fulgrim.

It wasn't that bad.

First heretic is much better though.

**Deadshot**

I hate Fulgrim so far.Maybe it is because I already know the story,but it is rubbish.The best parts are the bits from the humans' perspectives.How sad is that?

**Void__Dragon**

Jimsolo wrote:Which is the better book? I would have to say The First Heretic, since nothing could possibly be worse than Fulgrim.

What was so bad about Fulgrim?

**Deadshot**

Please put it in spoilers,because I want to read its ending.

**Don Cooperino**

Fulgrim was a good read imo, one of the better HH novels. Think 'The First Heretic' just shaded it though.

And has everyone forgot 'A Thousand Sons'?

Ahriman is an interesting character and I look forward to seeing more of him in the future. Fingers crossed...

**Deadshot**

Haven't read it yet. Palning to, though I want to read the novels I haven't read yet in order.

**Don Cooperino**

Sounds like a good plan, you'll enjoy it I think, one to look forward to.

**Ilove40k**

Don Cooperino wrote:Fulgrim was a good read imo, one of the better HH novels. Think 'The First Heretic' just shaded it though.

And has everyone forgot 'A Thousand Sons'?

Ahriman is an interesting character and I look forward to seeing more of him in the future. Fingers crossed...

No we havent forgot 'A Thousand Sons', and IMO is one of the best of the HH series, but we're talking about Fulgrim, that is not a bad book at all but I think 'The first Heretic' is just way better because you understand why the Primarchs got scattered across the galaxy , just like Valkyrie said, and because you see it from the WB point of view, and i've always asked myself why they turned against the Emperor, I knew the basic but that was just a more precise story !

**SickSix**

Well I guess I kinda voted 'wrong'. I voted for Fulgrim because I just can't stand Lorgar himself. But 'First Heretic' probably was the better book.

But Lorgar is such a pansy! Besides, Tarvitz is far more intesting than, well see, I can't even remember Lorgar's captains name now. So obviously Tarvitz is better!

**CalgarsPimpHand**

First Heretic is definitely the better book. Better as a piece of literature for sure, and arguably more interesting plot-wise. While I feel Fulgrim has a number of failings, big and small, I only have one real complaint about First Heretic:

Spoiler:

**Tyr Grimtooth**

I think Fulgrim was way better.

**Ilove40k**

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:I think Fulgrim was way better.

why? I'm interested by your opinion since every body thinks the other way!

**Durza**

I thought Fulgrim was better, as by the end I really felt sorry for Fulgrim, but I also kind of hated him for how he allowed it to happen. The only real failing was how obvious the 'I need red paint' twist was. It gave me two characters I could hate; Lucius for what a child he was, and Bile for his soulless experiments.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

Ilove40k wrote:
Tyr Grimtooth wrote:I think Fulgrim was way better.

why? I'm interested by your opinion since every body thinks the other way!

I am much more intrigued by Fulgrim's descent into madness then Logar's crisis of faith.

**Alkasyn**

I haven't read First Heretic yet, but I gotta say that Fulgrim was the worst of the HH books I've read. And I even managed to get through Battle for the Abbyss.

I couldn't care less for the human characters in Fulgrim, and the story was already more or less known from the previous books. The new lead guy seemed pale compared to Saul Tarvitz. His end on Istvaan also seemed like an add-on to the main story of Tarvitz and not a story in its own right.

Plus, there were many inconsistencies and/or wasted ideas. The one I remember was the Anathema weapon - Fulgrim was given a chaos weapon that the reader would think corrupted him, but no, he found a SECOND chaos weapon that corrupted him instead. Kinda pointless.

**Void__Dragon**

Alkasyn wrote:Fulgrim was given a chaos weapon that the reader would think corrupted him, but no, he found a SECOND chaos weapon that corrupted him instead. Kinda pointless.

This didn't actually happen.

The Laeran sword corrupted him, not the Anathame.

**Viersche**

I sort of enjoyed reading fulgrim rather than first heretic though

**Jackster**

I'd prefer the ones about the Luna Wolfs over the two.

**Locclo**

I admit I haven't read First Heretic yet (working through the excellent "A Thousand Sons" at the moment), but I did enjoy Fulgrim. It was an interesting look into how Fulgrim fell from grace, and the finale was quite tragic. It's a book that really made me feel sorry for the man, even knowing he would become a villain. Same went for Legion and A Thousand Sons (the latter only knowing the basics of how the Thousand Sons turned traitor).

The only part I did find somewhat silly was when Fulgrim met Eldrad. As someone so nicely put it on another thread (forgot the name, sorry! Feel free to speak up if it's yours):

"Eldrad: Wait, what? How can you travel through the warp without falling victim to Chaos?
Fulgrim: What's Chaos?
Eldrad:

"

Unless I'm mistaken, this was then followed by Fulgrim punching out an Avatar with his bare (well, power armored) hands. I don't know, it just rubbed me the wrong way, I guess. Otherwise a great book, especially compared to the wonders of Battle for the Abyss

**augustus5**

I enjoyed reading both Fulgrim and First Heretic, but probably liked First Heretic better. I never cared much for the Word Bearers or Lorgar in particular until reading it, and now view Lorgar as some kind of poor deluded soul. I have a lot of sympathy for what happened to him and how he fell from grace.

In my view, Fulgrim comes off as sort of an arrogant asshat, while Lorgar (pre-heresy) seemed like he genuinely cared about and identified with the common man. His legion was looked down upon for progressing more slowly than others during the Crusade, but they were spending time educating and rebuilding the human worlds that they had to bring to compliance.

**Alkasyn**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Alkasyn wrote:Fulgrim was given a chaos weapon that the reader would think corrupted him, but no, he found a SECOND chaos weapon that corrupted him instead. Kinda pointless.

This didn't actually happen.

The Laeran sword corrupted him, not the Anathame.

That's what I said. The Larean weapon - SLAANESHI weapon corrupted Fulgrim isntead of the Anathame, a NURGLE chaos weapon that he already posessed. Kinda redundant to have 2 Chaos in the armory of the same guy weapons, don't you think?

**Void__Dragon**

Alkasyn wrote:That's what I said. The Larean weapon - SLAANESHI weapon corrupted Fulgrim isntead of the Anathame, a NURGLE chaos weapon that he already posessed. Kinda redundant to have 2 Chaos in the armory of the same guy weapons, don't you think?

You're still wrong.

Fulgrim found the Laeran blade first, which corrupted him. He was only given the Anathame by Horus after Fulgrim already agreed to go traitor, and was already corrupted.