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Ill oon be seeing plenty of LRs on the opposite table edge, and my question is how do i deal with them?

I have:

Pk Boss
Kffmek

10 Burnas
10 Lootas
8 Tankbustas
12 Kommandoz
10 Death star Nobs

30 boyz
10 grotz
an unfinished shoota mob (only 10 up to now...)

plenty of Koptas

3 Kanz
Battlewagon with rolla

Im not using all that at once in a battle (wouldnt work anyway) but thats what i have. Will get more Kanz and shootas soon, plus a trukk. I built all the elites for occasion.

So how to deal with two LRs?

My idea was to somehow get the kanz, tankbustas and/or the boss into cc with them, but my opponent isnt stupid and he'll just take down thoe 3 if they get into range. Or do I just ignore the two Raiders and aim at tabeling the rest of his army but leave the two be. Another idea might be to deffroll it, but then again he'll know that is coming and he'll either shoot the Wagon or drive away.

Any suggestions?

Beat them down in CC. It's the orky way to deal with AV.

The Rolla will make a mess of the LR if you can get it there. Put a KFF mek on board to enhance it's durability.

The kanz have a chance of ripping one up. I tend to run mine near the KFF BW, to benefit from the KFF as they waddle towards the annoying mobile bunker..

PK warboss can pull one apart if he can reach it, but that's tricky.

Koptas have a chance of glancing them down or at least keeping them all shook up and knocking a few guns off. Immobilized is better, because then it can't run away

Tankbustas aren't really worth it against LR's, unless you have a couple of tankhammers in there. THEY can make a dent, and you might get luck with the Tankbusta bombs(and likely lose the whole unit in the resultant fireball... )

Frankly Ork shooting, by and large, has a hardtime with AV 14, with Deffrollas and CC Powerklaws being the better antitank option.

yeah looks like you've got some points there, but i've got a new idea: to get my pk-toting nob mob into action. S9 on the charge should do the trick I guess, especially if you have 12 or even 16 attacs

edit: aargh those typos

Most options for AV 14 are close and personal. As stated before, DCCWs, Power Klaws, and Deffrollas. Lucky for you, none of your mobs should ever be running around without a nob with a power klaw.

gpfunk wrote:Most options for AV 14 are close and personal. As stated before, DCCWs, Power Klaws, and Deffrollas. Lucky for you, none of your mobs should ever be running around without a nob with a power klaw.

They aren't

Basically what Ascalam said, with one exception: Don't try to glance a landraider to death, that's a total waste of firepower. Unless you have nothing else to shoot at(not even regular marines) or have to shoot a LR due to glory hogs, don't point rokkits in their direction, it just takes way to many glances to kill.

I usually just try to immobiize them and ding off a weapon or so, to make it easier to get to and kill in CC.

There have been more than a few times where all of the enemy are IN the Landraiders lately

Just like the others have said PKs and Deffrollas. Nobz get Str9 PK on the charge and Warboss' get Str10 which shouldnt be too hard to mess it up. A good way to deliver them would be to buy a boarding plank for your battlewagon that way they dont HAVE to get out to make their attacks.

nob bikers, and warboss on bike. they are fast, have decent toughness to stand up against bolter fire, with a little wargear options and a painboy you get FNP and diversifed wound allocation. i like using the following:

warboss on bike wi/squig, klaw, cybork and bosspole.
7-9 nobs fit in 3 pk, take the rest as big choppas.

the boss hits a LR on 4+ or even auto if it didnt move, has str 10 on charge and 6 attacks. the nobs with klaws get 4 attacks each on the charge at str 9 and your big choppas come in at str 7. (the choppas dont work well on LR, but anything else with armor 10 rear gets MULCHED)

additonally, you get that first turn turboboost for 24" move, followed by a second turn 12" move and 6" charge covering 42" in 2 turns. if that dosent hit the other guys LR...something very sneaky is goin on.

I play a lot of three land raider lists, and orks are one of the armies that I fear more than most others. You've got big mobs of boys with hidden klaws, death rollas!, and scouting koptas with klaws that might get me first turn before I even get to shoot or move.

Ignore them. If there are two they are not going do 500 pts worth of damage so concentrate on their other units.

The simple answer to this is orks will always struggle to kill them. Do be clear koptas can only glance a landraider and only by shooting, it is not going to happen.

Then shooting back landraiders do not have enough attacks to really scare an ork side.

ignoring them is an option but that depends on which type of Land Raider it is. Crusaders and Redeemers can really hurt your Ork Hordes. The Godhammer pattern can really hurt if your running Mech heavy.

Either way your best option is the Deff Rolla due to it auto hitting D6 str 10. The next is your Warboss, Kanz or Dreads. The last is your Nobs, while your chances are low if you do succeed exploding vehicles are bad in assaults.

Don't forget tank bustaz, those 6 S10 tankhammers are going to hit something, in addition to the nob, a bunch of rokkits potentially immobilizing the LR before assault, and one or two tankbusta bombs might even penetrate. The might not be the best unit in the codex, but they are great at busting tanks.

However, not even the crusader or the redeemer are particularly scary for orks. Even with two hurricane bolters the crusader fails to kill orks worth his points, and if the redeemer ever gets off a decent shot, it will be in assault range and be hit on 4+ next turn. As long as you are aware that the redeemer can move 12" and fire a flamer, you'll be fine if you don't clump up.

augustus5 wrote:I play a lot of three land raider lists, and orks are one of the armies that I fear more than most others. You've got big mobs of boys with hidden klaws, death rollas!, and scouting koptas with klaws that might get me first turn before I even get to shoot or move.

The problem there, is koptas cant do anything to your LR with the buzzsaw, and can only glance on 6s with its TL rokkits. So first turn or not, the Koptas are pretty much useless against your LR. Buzzsaw is only str7 on the charge. Base STR of 3, the buzzsaw (pk) doubles that to STR6, and furious charge adds 1 on the charge, so STR7, and that doesnt cut it against AV14. Heh....get it? Cut it? Im here all week

Jimmy wrote: it will be in assault range and be hit on 4+ next turn. As long as you are aware that the redeemer can move 12" and fire a flamer, you'll be fine if you don't clump up.

but therein lies the problem, if you assault and dont destroy the redeemer now you are bunched up.

General_Chaos wrote:

Jimmy wrote: it will be in assault range and be hit on 4+ next turn. As long as you are aware that the redeemer can move 12" and fire a flamer, you'll be fine if you don't clump up.

but therein lies the problem, if you assault and dont destroy the redeemer now you are bunched up.

land raider- 225+ points

30 boys + nob w/ pk & bp - 220 points

it is very unlikely the explode will even hurt all 3o

str 3 on toughness 4 assuming it get all 30 boyz (a stretch if you are keeping coherancy large) 5+ wounds that's 10 wounds average 6+ saves abotu 2 saves so 8x6 points 48 poitns lost to destroy a 225+ unit... worth it

There is no need to respond to him G00fy. No matter what I post, he will call it stupid, because I apparently hurt his pride when calling him out on his tactics. Obviously he isn't used to someone contradicting him. Just ignore him and hope the troll goes away.

The odds of a Nob destroying or immobilizing a Land Raider on the charge are:
1-(1-(1/6)((1/36)+(1/12)))^4, or about .73 (7.3%)
The 1/6 is hitting on 6.
The 1 in 36 is glance on 5, immob on 6
The 1 in 12 is pen on 6, immob on 4, destroy on 5 or 6.
The ^4 is the odds all 4 attacks fail. We wish to solve as 100%-failrate.

In short, a Klawnob's odds of actually stopping a Land Raider are very minor. Doing so also bunches your Boyz for flaming, or tankshock+assault (prevent the bulk of the mob from Reacting). Bad trade.

I find myself using mass Warbuggies, Trukks, Wagons and Kans (yes, in the same list). Not because of reliability of the kill (ain't happening) but because LR armies have less ranged support elements and once those are neutralized, he can't kill me fast enough if he's on the move, and if I can sacrifice enough junk to block his ideal movement paths or keep him from escaping my Deffrollas or actually attaining Cruising Speed, I consider it a fair trade.

yea, if the land raider moved all out charging doesn't work so well, but if it didn't then thats when I'd charge

my favotie way is still the deff rolla and I usually run at least 6 rokkit buggies so there is that option at the start as well

I was just trying to show that if the land raider is blown up it isn't necessarily BAD for the ork player

MagicJuggler wrote:The odds of a Nob destroying or immobilizing a Land Raider on the charge are:
1-(1-(1/6)((1/36)+(1/12)))^4, or about .73 (7.3%)
The 1/6 is hitting on 6.
The 1 in 36 is glance on 5, immob on 6
The 1 in 12 is pen on 6, immob on 4, destroy on 5 or 6.
The ^4 is the odds all 4 attacks fail. We wish to solve as 100%-failrate.

In short, a Klawnob's odds of actually stopping a Land Raider are very minor. Doing so also bunches your Boyz for flaming, or tankshock+assault (prevent the bulk of the mob from Reacting). Bad trade.

I find myself using mass Warbuggies, Trukks, Wagons and Kans (yes, in the same list). Not because of reliability of the kill (ain't happening) but because LR armies have less ranged support elements and once those are neutralized, he can't kill me fast enough if he's on the move, and if I can sacrifice enough junk to block his ideal movement paths or keep him from escaping my Deffrollas or actually attaining Cruising Speed, I consider it a fair trade.

If it moved that far, only the PotMS will fire a single flamer though, which hurts but doesn't kill you. If it did that, you shouldn't charge it, I agree to your math. You should move away and ignore it. However, if it ever tries to fire both flamers, you should by all means charge it, as you are now at a 20% chance(assuming your math is right, I just replaced 6+ with 4+) of immobilizing or destroy the giant metal coffin. Well worth a try.

G00fySmiley wrote:

General_Chaos wrote: but therein lies the problem, if you assault and dont destroy the redeemer now you are bunched up.

it is very unlikely the explode will even hurt all 3o
str 3 on toughness 4 assuming it get all 30 boyz (a stretch if you are keeping coherancy large) 5+ wounds that's 10 wounds average 6+ saves abotu 2 saves so 8x6 points 48 poitns lost to destroy a 225+ unit... worth it

I wasn't talking about the vehicle exploding. I was talking about you whiffing your assault and next turn the Land Raider back up and lines up a nice flamer template or two over your now bunched together Orks. Nobs don't have very good odds at popping AR 14

Jimmy it's not tactics it's math

Attacks: 4
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 2
Glancing Chance: 16.67%
Penetration Chance: 16.67%
Glancing Hits: 0.333
Penetration Hits: 0.333
Shaken: 0.222
Stunned: 0.111
Weapon Destroyed: 0.111
Immobilized: 0.111
Wrecked: 0.056
Explodes: 0.056

Put the Tankbustas in the Battlewagon, put a Boarding Plank, Armour Plates, and the KFF Mek in the Wagon. Put a Grabbin' Klaw and/or a Wrekkin' Ball on it, too.

You can deffroll into one Raider, if the other's close enough, you can Wrekkin' Ball and Boardin' Plank it (with a Tankhammer!). If those don't work, you can grab 'em with the Klaw if they try to move. Then, auto-hits next turn when you charge them, hopefully with your 2 Tankhammers, PK Bustanob, and all the TankbustaBombs you can throw at it- not to mention you'll still have that Str.9 Wrekkin' Ball.

The best part is, if the Bustas are in a Battlewagon, they ignore Glory Hogs!

General_Chaos wrote:I wasn't talking about the vehicle exploding. I was talking about you whiffing your assault and next turn the Land Raider back up and lines up a nice flamer template or two over your now bunched together Orks. Nobs don't have very good odds at popping AR 14

Jimmy it's not tactics it's math

Attacks: 4
Hit Chance: 50%
Hits: 2
Glancing Chance: 16.67%
Penetration Chance: 16.67%
Glancing Hits: 0.333
Penetration Hits: 0.333
Shaken: 0.222
Stunned: 0.111
Weapon Destroyed: 0.111
Immobilized: 0.111
Wrecked: 0.056
Explodes: 0.056

You know, when trying to nitpick math, you should do it right.

Not to mention how hard it is to line up to flamer sponsons if you're immobilized or lost a weapon. But then again, you aren't arguing tactics, you're still on a crusade against me. I hope nobody believes your nonsense.

Don't be so hard on him, even if his math is a bit off, its can't be that far if it is coming up with PKs being largely meh against AV14 moving, and any idiot is going to keep moving against orks. Why would you stop moving 12 when you have PotMS and your opponent has no options to do much to you other than BS2 rokkits, CC attacks, and 13 inch movement rollas?

Sending your orks in against a redeemer is going to get them killed pretty quick, if not just from the flame cannon (possible to survive, flame templates are hit and miss depending on angles and grouping), but whatever nasty surprise inside is going to make short work of any nob squad (unless you are talking boyz, but then you just die hard to flame templates).

That's really the point - you don't die hard from those flamers. I understand that flamestorms are scary to marines, but against orks, it isn't much better than a flamer or a heavy flamer (think heavy bolters shot by heavy weapon teams vs heavy bolters shot by marines). The crusader is probably the most dangerous of all landraiders to orks, due to hurricane bolters being defensive.

That single flamer shot by PotMS is simply something you have to deal with, however if your opponent allows himself to be hit on a 4+, you should take the chance to stop the thing, as immobilizing it is just as good as wrecking a redeemer. If you sacrifice 160 points of boyz in the process, that's really not a big loss, and 21 wounds won't disappear from two flamers.

gpfunk wrote:Most options for AV 14 are close and personal. As stated before, DCCWs, Power Klaws, and Deffrollas. Lucky for you, none of your mobs should ever be running around without a nob with a power klaw.

What this guy said.

Deffrollas will make short work of raiders

Jidmah wrote:That's really the point - you don't die hard from those flamers. I understand that flamestorms are scary to marines, but against orks, it isn't much better than a flamer or a heavy flamer (think heavy bolters shot by heavy weapon teams vs heavy bolters shot by marines). The crusader is probably the most dangerous of all landraiders to orks, due to hurricane bolters being defensive.

That single flamer shot by PotMS is simply something you have to deal with, however if your opponent allows himself to be hit on a 4+, you should take the chance to stop the thing, as immobilizing it is just as good as wrecking a redeemer. If you sacrifice 160 points of boyz in the process, that's really not a big loss, and 21 wounds won't disappear from two flamers.

Ugh, no. A competent marine player is always going to move when around PKs. You shouldn't ever get the 4+ chance to do anything, and even if you did get that chance the numbers are ****ing in the wind ineffective for you boyz nob. Giving up 160 pts of orks for a land raider? Sure, but that isn't what is happening, you are giving up 160 pts of orks for a rather slim chance of doing something to a transport/tank whose primary role is transporting something dangerous. Orks are coming to him, even if you do immobilize, you just fed him a unit or two, so it works out well for him.

You want to bring down LRs on the move with orks? take rollas. Don't have enough rollas, or don't like that the odds even for that isn't great, then take cheap PKs like in MANz or cheap throw away nob squads. Its the only way orks are going to get the number of attacks needed to reliably bag a land raider.

20%+ is hardly slim. No matter what the role of the LR is, or what's inside, you lose mobility, protection and a firing base when it's killed. A bunch of assault terminators foot-slogging it and now being able to assault them is well worth sacrificing a boyz unit. Usually the nob of the unit you're sacrificing will be able to hit the LR twice, as it's really hard to wipe out a unit of boyz in one turn by shooting.

You're right, if the SM player knows what he's doing, he will only shoot one weapon each turn. In that case, ignore the thing, it won't make its points back. If he makes the error of shooting two weapons and allows himself to be hit on 4+, punish him for that error.

There also shouldn't be any cheap "throw away nob squads" in any ork army, ever. That would be comparable to the landraider staying stationary while in charge range. The whole "there is something scary inside" argument really doesn't apply at all. If you don't open the transport there, the scary stuff inside is going where it is supposed to go, which will always be worse than it being busy with a random unit of troops.

I played a game a while back that destroyed a LR with my SAG. Turn 3, fire SAG, roll double 6 and rip a whole in the warp. Auto pen immobilizes it, then turn 3 hits with strength 9, wrecking it. All in all, a fun use of an unreliable gun. It proceeded to blow up next turn, taking my grot squad bubble wrap with it.

-cgmckenzie

cgmckenzie wrote:I played a game a while back that destroyed a LR with my SAG. Turn 3, fire SAG, roll double 6 and rip a whole in the warp. Auto pen immobilizes it, then turn 3 hits with strength 9, wrecking it. All in all, a fun use of an unreliable gun. It proceeded to blow up next turn, taking my grot squad bubble wrap with it.

-cgmckenzie

that's how the SAG works... I'm thinking of fielding a 2 SAG at oen of the ard boys next year for giggles (i got to livin things up not to win)

though the first time i used one it was a small poitns game... used 2 SAG meks for hq attached to grot groups and lootas... both blew up turn 1 with double 1's and they were bunched with lootas so the lootas ran off the table... tabled myself turn 1