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Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't get your argument here either - I'm always hearing how awesome Boyz are in close combat and I've had experience of this myself. To the point where I have had far too many attacks and done far too much damage to make full use of.

30 boyz are a great combat unit, 20 still are, 12... even with a PK nob, I wouldn't call 5 dead MEQ, 3 damage to a T7 vehicle or 2 damage to a T8 vehicle "great".

I just wonder if you'd have been better with split groups of Warbikers with PK Nobs leading each, even if just 1 or 2 make it - it's more than what managed in your game? Also when you have 4 units of 3 that is 4 possible objectives you can take or contest, you have more board presence, flexibility etc but of course the cost is the kill points you give up. Interesting to consider I think.

3x warbikers with PK is 94, the nob biker unit was 249. So for 33 points I would have gotten one more wound per PK to protect it - ok trade I guess. However, they would have been perfect targets for the hemlocks (2 damage flamers), so, maybe? Board presence is kind of moot, since I was tabled.
I would have gladly traded away a looba for those extra wounds though, so I guess it's roughly a tie.

As I said above, perhaps your PKs would have reached if they had been split in Warbikes as above?

Almost certainly not. The hemlocks were killing lobbas and kannons that turn because they had no better targets. It would have prevented him from using the fire prism stratagem because all three tanks need to target the same unit, but I also wouldn't have been able to put them all in cover to force him to use the AP-4 gun. I think either choice would have been pretty dead.

I think you're underestimating warbikes. I definitely wouldn't say they have "next to no close combat ability". This is absolutely bogus. Boyz are considered one of the strongest close combat units in the game.

Boyz with green tide bonus and a huge mob rule leadership are. 12 boyz which are most likely out of any range of any large mob a lot less so. There is a reason trukk boyz don't see play, and those are almost half the points of a warbiker mob.

Warbikes aren't "fast boyz". They are fast, shooty, tougher boyz. Yes; Stormies are better as "fast boyz" but they aren't half as durable and they have no shooting to speak of.

You get more than 3 storm boyz for every warbiker. You get 30 storm boyz including a PK nob for 9 war bikers, for 31 vs 21 wounds and their sluggas are still half as good as those dakka guns per point spent. Not to mention their vastly superior melee and leadership.

Lootas are better as "shooty boyz" but they aren't half as maneuverable. Tank Bustas are too vulnerable and too obvious a target. Nobz (walking) are much more durable and more killy but they are less maneuverable without outside support.

What's the point of maneuverability if you die to a stiff breeze anyways (so no holding objectives) and all other units have just as much range? Lootaz can reach anything on the table if deployed in a good position, so they don't need to move. Tank bustaz have a threat range of 29" and actually have good weapons (and rerolls!), warbikers are 32". So there is no real advantage to bringing war bikers as shooting units.

Bottom line, for everything a warbiker could do, there is another unit that does it better.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




A sluggaboy costs 2 points per S4 attack in CC
A stormboy costs 2.6 points per S4 attack in CC
Shoota-boyz and kommandos costs 3 points per S4 attack in CC
A warbiker costs 9 points per CC attack

Warbikers are simply too expensive to doo any real damage in CC, and they are certainly too expensive to use as ablative wounds for the free nob. A minimum squad of warbikers with a PK on the nob is 90 points. A minimum sized squad of Stormboyz with PK-nob is 53 points.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




pismakron wrote:
A sluggaboy costs 2 points per S4 attack in CC
A stormboy costs 2.6 points per S4 attack in CC
Shoota-boyz and kommandos costs 3 points per S4 attack in CC
A warbiker costs 9 points per CC attack

Warbikers are simply too expensive to doo any real damage in CC, and they are certainly too expensive to use as ablative wounds for the free nob. A minimum squad of warbikers with a PK on the nob is 90 points. A minimum sized squad of Stormboyz with PK-nob is 53 points.


Exactly this. Even taking them down to 7th edition points they wouldn't be auto takes.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in it
Drifting Cronos Hungry for Souls




Italy

pismakron wrote:
A sluggaboy costs 2 points per S4 attack in CC
A stormboy costs 2.6 points per S4 attack in CC
Shoota-boyz and kommandos costs 3 points per S4 attack in CC
A warbiker costs 9 points per CC attack

Warbikers are simply too expensive to doo any real damage in CC, and they are certainly too expensive to use as ablative wounds for the free nob. A minimum squad of warbikers with a PK on the nob is 90 points. A minimum sized squad of Stormboyz with PK-nob is 53 points.


Bikes are even more expensive than that. 27ppm means that a min unit with no upgrades on the nob is 81 points, with a pk is 94. Almost twice the cost of 5 stormboyz.

I've never had great results by throwing them in combat in 7th edition, even with units of 10 bikes, now they can't even have the +1A for charging. The pk on the nob was the only thing that mattered. But tons of S5 shots can be useful, especially now that lobbas were nerfed. Generally speaking orks don't have efficient ranged anti infantry weapons: skorchas are nice but with a very low range, burnaboyz with their D3 shots are extremely lackluster, kannonz can only inflict a few wounds on infantries and kans with big shootas are utterly overcosted. Dakkajets may be ok, but I hate ork planes

So bikes should be our best ranged anti infantry but with a cost of 27ppm they're not gonna see the battlefield. They should be 21ppm with a 5+ invuln. IMHO every bike in the game should have an invuln that replaces the old jink rule. Big shootas and dakkaguns should be Ap-1 since they were AP5 in the previous editions.

Orks 9500
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
Made in de
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Our best ranged anti-infantry are shoota boyz.

The difference between S5 and S4 is irrelevant against almost all infantry that requires volumes of shot remove and is just as useless against elite infantry.

Drager wrote:
I'd heard there would be a clatter, then perhaps a hiss, but that's not what it's like. We'd all been told that these things lurked in vents and crevices, that they could sneak up on a man no matter how alert, but that just wasn't what happened. We saw them coming, well, we heard them first, an ear-splitting boom as they accelerated across the plain. They must have been 2 miles away when we heard the crack, but we barely had time to lift our weapons before they were on us and then... past us. Running faster than I could follow. They didn't attack, didn't even try and it was then, as the whole platoon stared after them that a dread crept through me and I turned to see that which they had been running from.

-Infantryman Collins, 5th Umbra Rifles
 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:
pismakron wrote:
A sluggaboy costs 2 points per S4 attack in CC
A stormboy costs 2.6 points per S4 attack in CC
Shoota-boyz and kommandos costs 3 points per S4 attack in CC
A warbiker costs 9 points per CC attack

Warbikers are simply too expensive to doo any real damage in CC, and they are certainly too expensive to use as ablative wounds for the free nob. A minimum squad of warbikers with a PK on the nob is 90 points. A minimum sized squad of Stormboyz with PK-nob is 53 points.


Bikes are even more expensive than that. 27ppm means that a min unit with no upgrades on the nob is 81 points, with a pk is 94. Almost twice the cost of 5 stormboyz.

I've never had great results by throwing them in combat in 7th edition, even with units of 10 bikes, now they can't even have the +1A for charging. The pk on the nob was the only thing that mattered. But tons of S5 shots can be useful, especially now that lobbas were nerfed. Generally speaking orks don't have efficient ranged anti infantry weapons: skorchas are nice but with a very low range, burnaboyz with their D3 shots are extremely lackluster, kannonz can only inflict a few wounds on infantries and kans with big shootas are utterly overcosted. Dakkajets may be ok, but I hate ork planes

So bikes should be our best ranged anti infantry but with a cost of 27ppm they're not gonna see the battlefield. They should be 21ppm with a 5+ invuln. IMHO every bike in the game should have an invuln that replaces the old jink rule. Big shootas and dakkaguns should be Ap-1 since they were AP5 in the previous editions.


I don't think they should have an invulnerable save or AP-1. If you want the invulnerable save there is the KFF. I think if they were 18 ppm they would be fine. They would have good short-range shooting, and be slightly more durable than boyz.Their CC ability would be mediocre rather than awful. A chaos biker is 23 ppm with a better save and better BS but worse CC ability.

I would like for bikes to get the benefit of cover whenever they advance. And extra speed with a red paint-job.

As for anti-infantry shooting Orks has Shoota-boyz and Gretchin. And surprisingly neither option is garbage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/26 09:00:42


 
   
Made in it
Drifting Cronos Hungry for Souls




Italy

pismakron wrote:

I don't think they should have an invulnerable save or AP-1. If you want the invulnerable save there is the KFF.

As for anti-infantry shooting Orks has Shoota-boyz and Gretchin. And surprisingly neither option is garbage.


Bikes used to jink, which means a 4+ that could even become a 2+ save that completely lauhged at the AP. Now the 4+ can weakened even by low AP. I think a 5+ invuln can decently replace their older ability to jink. Drukhari vehicles and flyers all got that and only venoms already had a 5+ invuln. Makes sense for those things that were jinking all the time.

The KFF is there to give a save to stuff that couldn't have any if hit by weapons with good AP. Bikes shouldn't need a babysitting big mek.

The AP-1 comes from their old AP value which was AP5 and could bypass 1/3 of the armor saves. Now they bypass nothing. Dakkaguns and big shootas are just heavy bolters, wielded by stronger bodies so they're assault instead of heavy, but they should have the same AP. The assault profile is the compensation for orks being BS5+ or BS4+.

I wouldn't want bikes to be more effective in close combat, just make trukks cheaper and field trukk boyz for that role. 18ppm is probably too cheap since they got a second wound and the game's format is shifted from 1850 to 2000 points. 21ppm with an invuln and an AP could make them viable again. Some extra speed could be nice as well but I think they don't need that.

Gretchins for being anti infantry you need tons of them, they're slow, with a short range and extremely vulnerable, they really don't serve any other purpose than list fillers, they're terrible in killing stuff. They can be jumped but who's gonna jump them instead of boyz since we can use that psychic power only once per turn?

Shoota boyz are certainly decent but still more assault oriented than shooty. In fact their tipycal move is to deepstrike, shoot and charge. They cannot be parked on objectives and defend them since they won't get any cover and once their number is reduced they won't kill anything with their shootas, you tipycally want them into combat anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:
Our best ranged anti-infantry are shoota boyz.

The difference between S5 and S4 is irrelevant against almost all infantry that requires volumes of shot remove and is just as useless against elite infantry.


It's relevant against T4. Not every infantries are T3 hordes. I think orks should have options to remove SM equivalents by shooting as well.

And shootaboyz are squishy and slow, they're an assault unit with some bonus in their shooting.

Burnaboyz should be another dedicated anti infantry but with a crappy D3 autohits they won't do anything. Maybe with D6 autohits, like any other flamer.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/26 09:43:20


Orks 9500
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets






Merry Xmas everyone! Good to see the old "Boyz are better than x" adage made a swift return to the topic lol

Yes, Boyz, Storm Boyz, Kommandos and Shoota Boyz are cheaper per str 4 cc attack. The thing is they don't move 14", have 2 wounds a pop, T5, 6 str 5 shots and a 4+ save. The previously mentioned Boyz variations on foot are far more points efficient than bikes at a certain role but are generally less flexible. When we take warbikes we pay for that flexibility (too much at the moment, no doubt). Nob bikers, as Jidmah mentioned earlier, are somewhat more specialised (get these awesome cc weapons where they need to be). They are also too expensive.

So both bike variations are certainly too expensive at the moment and I agree Dakka guns should be AP - 1, but I could spend days on here writing up a wishlist that GW will never see and I doubt it would provide much in the way of tactical insight.

In a meta of hordes, bikes may come to have a place. They are easier to hide than most of our units, against damage 1 weapons they have decent durability and their shooting is some of the best we have access to (though wildly overcosted before you all jump down my neck). I think their role as a unit that can tie things up in cc is going to change with all the stratagems and abilities that allow a unit to leave combat and still fire.

If both biker units drop in points that could help but I don't think they'll ever be cheaper or more effective than weirdboy + da jump so I'm not sure this is the right solution. Exhaust cloud could make a come back for extra durability. Nob bikers could have an invulnerable or able to take "Biker Runts". I think we need more AP across most of our shooting so I think Dakka guns should be AP - 1. I'd really like to see an ability that causes mortal wounds on the charge for them since they are supposed to be cc, hit and run beasts. Evil sunz could have the klan ability to leave combat and still charge which would tie in nicely and be very fluffy. And now I'm wishlisting. Curse you dakkadakka!

Back on topic - warbikes don't need to be jumped up the board. They can be small units so hidden easier. Their shooting is decent. I have used them well by hiding them behind terrain at the start of the game before rushing to a flank to support it or grab/contest an objective. They can be useful for locking things in combat and providing an annoying distraction. There are, no doubt, better units for this function but I don't have a ton of those units painted and I'm committed to playing evil sunz as evil sunz should be played, not as Goffs with weirdboy support or blood axe Kommandos.
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






3 lists for a 1250 pts tournament.
Thoughts(if yo can be bothered to)?

8 CP list:
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2 weirdboyz
2x 30 choppa boyz (P Klaw, B Choppa)
30 shoota boyz (B Choppa)
11 Stormboyz

Vanguard:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
2x 5 Kommandos
Waaagh Banner

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Tankbustas list
Spoiler:

Batallion:
Weirdboy
Warboss on Bike (B Choppa)
2x 30 choppa boyz (vanilla nobs)
30 shoota boyz (vanilla nob)
5 tankbustas 2 squigs
trukk rokket
20 Stormboyz

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Less CP, no KFF but better upgrades and max stormboyz
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2x Weirdboy
2x 30 Choppa Boyz (2x Power Klaw)
29 shoota boyz (power klaw)
19 stormboyz (power klaw)
2x 5 kommandos
waaagh banner

Spearhead:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
3x KMK

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets






 rvd1ofakind wrote:
3 lists for a 1250 pts tournament.
Thoughts(if yo can be bothered to)?

8 CP list:
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2 weirdboyz
2x 30 choppa boyz (P Klaw, B Choppa)
30 shoota boyz (B Choppa)
11 Stormboyz

Vanguard:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
2x 5 Kommandos
Waaagh Banner

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Tankbustas list
Spoiler:

Batallion:
Weirdboy
Warboss on Bike (B Choppa)
2x 30 choppa boyz (vanilla nobs)
30 shoota boyz (vanilla nob)
5 tankbustas 2 squigs
trukk rokket
20 Stormboyz

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Less CP, no KFF but better upgrades and max stormboyz
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2x Weirdboy
2x 30 Choppa Boyz (2x Power Klaw)
29 shoota boyz (power klaw)
19 stormboyz (power klaw)
2x 5 kommandos
waaagh banner

Spearhead:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
3x KMK


Personally I like the first list best. What are the 11 Storm Boyz for though, what are taking on the weirdboyz and what's your meta like? If you know you'll be facing a lot of vehicles Tank Bustas list might be better. How are you intending to play the lists? I assume jump the shoota Boyz turn one with the storm Boyz advancing up field? Kommandos for grabbing objectives? The only thing I'm not sold on is the WAAAGH banner.
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Stormboyz are there because.... they're the best fast unit orks have? Just run arround and do things faster than boyz. I can split 'em up I guess...
Weirdboyz are Da Jump and Warpath.
Meta is undefined.

And yeah, the idea is something like that. Waaagh banner feels like a good force multiplier to just throw in. Also fills an elite slot. I could take painboy(+3 stormboyz) or something like that. Only have 10 kommandos atm.

I also have thraka but at 1250... not sure if worth

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/26 15:00:00


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Bikes are much more resilient than boyz vs 1d weapons if you count in an extra turn of shooting that boyz have to face.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
3 lists for a 1250 pts tournament.
Thoughts(if yo can be bothered to)?


I like all three lists, but my favourite is the third list:

I would consider the following:

1) Split up a boyz squad and go for two battalions if you find yourself in need for CP's

2) Swap the banner-nob for a painboy/Grotsnik

3) Split the stormboyz into minimum-sized squads

Otherwise I think your list i solid. And remember the following:

a) What you cannot attack effectively, you should ignore and focus on something else

b) Play the mission, grab objectives, get some VPs.

c) Ignoring a flank and overloading the other can be effective.

Regards
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 koooaei wrote:
Bikes are much more resilient than boyz vs 1d weapons if you count in an extra turn of shooting that boyz have to face.


And are exponentially worse when facing D2 weapons like spammed plasma which pretty much ignores their armor as well. Its a trade off, but the fact is that Biker Boyz went up in price 50% and only gained +1 wound while losing their 4+ Jink Save, which in my book is pretty much a wash, especially when you factored in all the modifiers, I used to have a huge mob of 2+ Jink save bikers with a 2+ Rerollable jink save on a warboss (da lucky stick) and now I have 30ish Warbikers sitting on a shelf because 27pts its so unrealistic that even in friendly games I don't want to take them out.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Why don't people think higher of the banner here? The top ork player from ITC always takes it :/ No painboy or KFF, either in his SoCal list.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/27 04:41:40


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in fi
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Has anyone come across any youtube batreps of even a semi-decent Ork player who has even a moderately competitive list (meaning a lot of boyz 120+, weirdboyz etc)? Every batrep I see have some sort of half assed mechanized list that gets pummeled pretty quickly. I'd like to see an experienced player show me how it's done.

7000+
2500
1200 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why don't people think higher of the banner here? The top ork player from ITC always takes it :/ No painboy or KFF, either in his SoCal list.


I think the banner-nob is okay-ish. He is a solid buff in the phase where you need it the least. He is not a bad option, but he is 79 points. At one point I stopped bringing him in exchange for more boyz, and I haven't looked back. The same is true of Ghaz now that I think about it.

But I definitely think a case could be made for the banner-nob instead of the KFF-mek, for example. It is a preference thing.
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Updated Mathammer for Orks. 4 relavant pages:
Durability (colored by comparing all units)
Durability factions (colored by comparing only the units in the faction)
Avg Damage
Avg Damage factions

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ghaz is great for the advance and charge alone, plus he's a great second wave. If your opponent doesn't expand his bubble, you can Jump into his castle. If he does expand, Ghaz can give you turn 1 charges.

   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






SemperMortis wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
Bikes are much more resilient than boyz vs 1d weapons if you count in an extra turn of shooting that boyz have to face.


And are exponentially worse when facing D2 weapons like spammed plasma which pretty much ignores their armor as well. Its a trade off, but the fact is that Biker Boyz went up in price 50% and only gained +1 wound while losing their 4+ Jink Save, which in my book is pretty much a wash, especially when you factored in all the modifiers, I used to have a huge mob of 2+ Jink save bikers with a 2+ Rerollable jink save on a warboss (da lucky stick) and now I have 30ish Warbikers sitting on a shelf because 27pts its so unrealistic that even in friendly games I don't want to take them out.

Maybe you should try them out in a friendly game. They sure are not cheap enough for a competitive game but are pretty ok otherwise.
   
Made in au
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy





 rvd1ofakind wrote:
3 lists for a 1250 pts tournament.
Thoughts(if yo can be bothered to)?

8 CP list:
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2 weirdboyz
2x 30 choppa boyz (P Klaw, B Choppa)
30 shoota boyz (B Choppa)
11 Stormboyz

Vanguard:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
2x 5 Kommandos
Waaagh Banner

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Tankbustas list
Spoiler:

Batallion:
Weirdboy
Warboss on Bike (B Choppa)
2x 30 choppa boyz (vanilla nobs)
30 shoota boyz (vanilla nob)
5 tankbustas 2 squigs
trukk rokket
20 Stormboyz

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Less CP, no KFF but better upgrades and max stormboyz
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2x Weirdboy
2x 30 Choppa Boyz (2x Power Klaw)
29 shoota boyz (power klaw)
19 stormboyz (power klaw)
2x 5 kommandos
waaagh banner

Spearhead:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
3x KMK


The second list has too many unplayables or borderlines for me; the trukk, big mek, and tank bustas.
1st and 3rd list are basically the same. Of those two I like the 3rd. I would personally drop the PKs (for BCs) and banner, and add a painboy and a KMK if you got em.

   
Made in se
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk




Sweden

hollow one wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
3 lists for a 1250 pts tournament.
Thoughts(if yo can be bothered to)?

8 CP list:
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2 weirdboyz
2x 30 choppa boyz (P Klaw, B Choppa)
30 shoota boyz (B Choppa)
11 Stormboyz

Vanguard:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
2x 5 Kommandos
Waaagh Banner

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Tankbustas list
Spoiler:

Batallion:
Weirdboy
Warboss on Bike (B Choppa)
2x 30 choppa boyz (vanilla nobs)
30 shoota boyz (vanilla nob)
5 tankbustas 2 squigs
trukk rokket
20 Stormboyz

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Less CP, no KFF but better upgrades and max stormboyz
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2x Weirdboy
2x 30 Choppa Boyz (2x Power Klaw)
29 shoota boyz (power klaw)
19 stormboyz (power klaw)
2x 5 kommandos
waaagh banner

Spearhead:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
3x KMK


The second list has too many unplayables or borderlines for me; the trukk, big mek, and tank bustas.
1st and 3rd list are basically the same. Of those two I like the 3rd. I would personally drop the PKs (for BCs) and banner, and add a painboy and a KMK if you got em.


I think one trukk alone will get focused down with AT (unless you can hide it from LOS in round one). And you're only using half the transport capacity, maybe an other small unit to ride along? Or crank up the tankbustas?

One option would be to loose the trukk and bustas, put the points into rokkit launchas embedded in the boyz instead. you can jump them (no need to advance that unit) and shoot the rokkits then. The points should be enough for at least 9 rokkits.

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






hollow one wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
3 lists for a 1250 pts tournament.
Thoughts(if yo can be bothered to)?

8 CP list:
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2 weirdboyz
2x 30 choppa boyz (P Klaw, B Choppa)
30 shoota boyz (B Choppa)
11 Stormboyz

Vanguard:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
2x 5 Kommandos
Waaagh Banner

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Tankbustas list
Spoiler:

Batallion:
Weirdboy
Warboss on Bike (B Choppa)
2x 30 choppa boyz (vanilla nobs)
30 shoota boyz (vanilla nob)
5 tankbustas 2 squigs
trukk rokket
20 Stormboyz

Spearhead:
Big Mek(KFF)
3x KMK


Less CP, no KFF but better upgrades and max stormboyz
Spoiler:

Batallion:
2x Weirdboy
2x 30 Choppa Boyz (2x Power Klaw)
29 shoota boyz (power klaw)
19 stormboyz (power klaw)
2x 5 kommandos
waaagh banner

Spearhead:
Warboss on Bike (B choppa)
3x KMK


The second list has too many unplayables or borderlines for me; the trukk, big mek, and tank bustas.
1st and 3rd list are basically the same. Of those two I like the 3rd. I would personally drop the PKs (for BCs) and banner, and add a painboy and a KMK if you got em.


Huh? KFF unplayble/boderline?
Tankbustas were in the best ork list in the last major tournament in a trakk(obviously better than a trukk ofc)

I don't have another KMK yet. I'm still thoroughly confused about the banner hate here :/
1D4 is calling it a must take and it was in the same ork list mentioned previously.
Hm......

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in it
Drifting Cronos Hungry for Souls




Italy

I wouldn't call it a banner hate. It simply doesn't add that much to justify 79 points. Hordes of boyz usually don't need extra hits, the banner could really shine when buffing lots of pks. But that's not what many players use to field. I mean kans, dreads, nauts, meganonobz, nobz are all suboptimal units if not bad ones, it's not that common to field those units en masse. Characters like painboyz, weirdboyz and big meks could benefit from the banner but they usually stay out of combat anyway and Ghaz already hits on 2s.

Not to mention that many ork players still prefer big choppas over pks for their nobz that lead boyz, kommandos and stormboyz units.

The only games I'd bring the banner in my lists are the ones in which I use the gorkanaut+2x3 kans+big mek with KFF combo.

Orks 9500
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets






 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Huh? KFF unplayble/boderline?
Tankbustas were in the best ork list in the last major tournament in a trakk(obviously better than a trukk ofc)

I don't have another KMK yet. I'm still thoroughly confused about the banner hate here :/
1D4 is calling it a must take and it was in the same ork list mentioned previously.
Hm......


I wouldn't call KFF unplayable either, it's not incredible but it can be justified for certain, expensive units. It's probably not best spent on Boyz unless you can get an absolute ton under it's area and then you're limiting your board presence.

Tankbustas are one of our most killy AA at range. They are a must for me but they need protection which increases their cost right out.

There's no banner hate, as has been said it's a buff where you need it least. 20+ to 30 Boyz are going to crush most things in melee anyway (or they'll die before they get to do anything) and you're not taking a lot of PKs to make a ton of use of it. If you had a squad of Nobz with 2-3 PKs, or a few MANZ acting as your AA you have more justification to take it.

At the end of the day, decide for yourself if you want to take it. To me, the force multiplication in a 1250 pt list is not worth it's cost but you might have a different opinion and experience. I doubt it will make the difference between a win and a loss.
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




The KFF is best on units with a 4+ save, which means transports for Orks. For walkers the benefit is considerably smaller. For boyz it depends a lot of your meta. If you run into a lot of assault cannons and heavy bolters a KFF is solid, all though it limits your flexibility somewhat.

I saw an Ork player who would consistently advance half his army under a single KFF umbrella on the edge of one flank and then deploy the rest of his army into reserves.
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Hm... you guys might be right about this whole banner thing. Maybe I'll take a painboy instead

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Try out both and see what works for you. There is not always an exact answer.
   
Made in lt
Aspirant Tech-Adept






-banner
+painboy
+stormboy(for a full unit of 20)
+boy(for a full unit of 30)
+3 kustom shootas for fun (and I don't really have much to do with that ammount of pts anyway)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/29 05:53:43


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Saving an ammo runt/grot crew from certain death cus i made the 5++ or 6+++ is one of my favorite things to do this edition, even if its not that great...
   
 
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